My wife taught in a couple of the UK’s worst schools, and then a private boarding school. She was refreshed to find that the kids at the private school admired other children’s academic prowess In the state schools you get laughed at and bullied for being a geek..

Yes, it would appear you are right, given that you go on to list “posh people” in your con’s (sic).

Your irony filter is bust. I don’t have a poshness prejudice..

Crap resources

Hmm, the rifle range in the basement of the biology block needed better lighting, I would have liked some CNC stuff in the technology workshop and the observatory was a little cold so perhaps yer right.

Crap buildings

The swimming pool’s roof fell in one day, but we fixed that by having the entire thing rebuilt.

Crap teachers

Yes, but you get crap employees everywhere.

Posh People

I can think of 2, perhaps three in our entire year group of 128.

I have three girls at private school. I’m very lucky in that the fees are being paid by my extremely generous brother in law who has done exceptionally well for himself ….. and was state educated.
It’s his belief that you can only do a few things for your children, amongst them keeping them safe and giving them the best education you can.

The girls all went to state primary school and are loving the schools they’re at now. They get to do stuff that they wouldn’t necessarily have the opportunity of doing otherwise but they certainly have to work hard.

Personally I’m very happy that they’re now enjoying classes sizes of 15 and have left behind certain kids that were (and still are) a constant cause of disruption in the classroom.

Although I’m sure there may be little difference between state and private school teachers, two of our friends are/were state school teachers and their kids also go to private school.

I wouldn’t have any particular issue if the girls had to go to a state school but I will be eternally grateful to my BIL for giving them this opportunity.

Private school Con’s

Crap resources
Crap buildings
Crap teachers

Wrong school then Toys – the resources at my girl’s schools I know are epic when compared to our local state schools. It’s one of the things I like about them.

Boys (hot_fiat, sharkbait CFH) all your irony filters are bust, my point was that the things that people trot out as to why private schools are crap is not the thing that contributes to the goodness of the education.

I think you might find, if you read on, that I like the concept, hence why I am sending my kids there. But the great resources and extra sport are not what makes the education good. Its the small classes and well pushed kids..

difficulty separating their emotions

An obvious point, but the biggest separation will be between those on this thread who have/are considering having children, and those who have no intention of such a thing. I went thru school (in rural Somerset) with pretty much the same bunch of people from infants -> A-Levels. Some of us studied hard, some of us bunked off to the local BMX track, some went raving & never came back – by and large, we all turned out okay. I know what I owe to the experience (and to my teachers), and it’s not something I’d necessarily tabulate in terms of exam results.

It’s as parents that these things take on a very different dimension. And you won’t be able to control all the variables, however careful your planning. But it’s academic for me…. I have nae kids – I just hate Michael Gove.

How is your applying for specific state schools for your daughter any different to picking one on merit regardless of cost?

We visited the two secondary schools nearest to our house. These options are open to anyone, regardless of income (we live in a council ward which is in the 10% most deprived in the country).

I think that’s pretty different to picking one regardless of cost?

But the great resources and extra sport are not what makes the education good. Its the small classes and well pushed kids.

Agreed…… but they help 🙂

Fair point well made, Toys!

Its the small classes and well pushed kids

indeed, 25 keen, bright kids who understand the reason they’re not going on holiday again this year is because their parents can’t afford it as they have fees to pay, are surprisingly attentive learners.

I think that’s pretty different to picking one regardless of cost?

But I bet you didn’t alturisticly pick the worst of the two?

So give the affordability of private or public (what is the difference?) schooling in Teesside to a sizeable portion of the poulation, is it any different to picking the better of the two schools in your area? Or are you objecting to paid for schools on principal?

Or are you objecting to paid for schools on principal?

^this^

For reference the debate has arisen in the bernard house due to the following factors.

We have a very good private school not too far away, which has a good reputation both academic and extra curricular.
The state school, primary and secondary are pretty good to be honest and the kids are happy and doing well. That said the the clientele is very mixed and does impact on the opportunities they have.

My elder son was on the top table for phonics, maths etc has recently been moved. I asked if there was anything we needed to help him with at home to help his progress. I was given a lot of waffle about him doing okay etc and they are not concerned about his progress. I was told later by someone who volunteers at the school he was moved to try and encourage/help/lead by example some of the less able kids which I do not have a problem with so long as it does not affect his progress. I can’t help but think it will..

He also tends to get partnered with the badly behaved kids because ‘ he is a good influence’ this worries me for some reason. He also loves sport the chance to do sport at his current primary is a bit limited.

The flip side of the argument is we are not rolling in it, school fees would have a massive impact on the quality of our lives assuming we could scrape enough together to pay for them both when the time came.

I’m very lucky in that the fees are being paid by my extremely generous brother in law who has done exceptionally well for himself

Blimey! What a top bloke!

I really wouldn’t just focus on academic performance aspects of school. A student who goes to an inner city state school would get a much better view point on life in the real world compared to a student who goes to a public boarding school.

For the record, I’d advocate a move to a system more like that in Finland.

Not all private schools are of the Ampleforth / Sedburgh boarding type. Ours was/is slap bang in the middle of Newcastle. We were definitely not hidden away from everyday life in the real world.

Bernard, have you looked into bursaries?

bernard – Member

For reference the debate has arisen in the bernard house due to the following factors.

We have a very good private school not too far away, which has a good reputation both academic and extra curricular.
The state school, primary and secondary are pretty good to be honest and the kids are happy and doing well. That said the the clientele is very mixed and does impact on the opportunities they have.

My elder son was on the top table for phonics, maths etc has recently been moved. I asked if there was anything we needed to help him with at home to help his progress. I was given a lot of waffle about him doing okay etc and they are not concerned about his progress. I was told later by someone who volunteers at the school he was moved to try and encourage/help/lead by example some of the less able kids which I do not have a problem with so long as it does not affect his progress. I can’t help but think it will..

He also tends to get partnered with the badly behaved kids because ‘ he is a good influence’ this worries me for some reason. He also loves sport the chance to do sport at his current primary is a bit limited.

You’re worried because your kid is bright, well-liked and seen as a leader? Hate to see your reaction to him getting in trouble.

As a teacher myself this is purely hypothetical as I’ll never afford it! I’d send my son private if I could and I’d hate myself for it but he should get the best. I have seen many a shite teacher escape the state sector and move to private sector not seen it go the other way but the smaller classes are what counts and as much as it pains me to say it Toys is right.

Having said all that if I ruled the world I’d ban private education.
As for that **** who said rich parents should pay for state education I’d happily strangle the ****.

He also tends to get partnered with the badly behaved kids because ‘ he is a good influence’ this worries me for some reason. He also loves sport the chance to do sport at his current primary is a bit limited.

i rhink thats poor practise from the teacher tbh

I’m not convinced smaller class sizes are the be all and end all.

What sort of size A level classes would be standard in a private school? My (state) A level physics groups have 20.

hot_fiat – Member
Not all private schools are of the Ampleforth / Sedburgh boarding type. Ours was/is slap bang in the middle of Newcastle. We were definitely not hidden away from everyday life in the real world.

I know this but from personal experience they still have a very different view points as their demographics are very narrow.

They do not have the kids coming in on free school meals and tatty clothing not being fed properly.

You’re worried because your kid is bright, well-liked and seen as a leader? Hate to see your reaction to him getting in trouble.

No I’m worried that unless he is challenged he will get bored and find an alternative way to occupy his time. I’m also worried being constantly paired with the kids that misbehave, some of that behaviour will rub off on him.

fr0sty125 – Member

I really wouldn’t just focus on academic performance aspects of school. A student who goes to an inner city state school would get a much better view point on life in the real world compared to a student who goes to a public boarding school.

What “real world” is that?

No I’m worried that unless he is challenged he will get bored and find an alternative way to occupy his time.

I don’t think kids get a chance to be bored in school anymore; there’s a constant drive to get every child ‘above expected progress’.

I’m also worried being constantly paired with the kids that misbehave, some of that behaviour will rub off on him.

I suspect it’ll probably have the opposite effect.

aa-much as it pains me to say it Toys is right.

ha ha my work here is done.

To be fair AA I think we have agreed about this and some other matters before, it makes you feel a little disgusting inside doesn’t it..

We’ve sent jnr to the local private school, in the last year of GCSE’s now. We didn’t plan it, but the local state school didn’t impress (reception class of 30-40, mixed age groups) so we saved and scrimped for the last 7-8 years.
We would do it again, the advantages are small class size, massive range of sports and an atmosphere conducive to learning. Jnr is expected to get A* at everything, but obviously we’ll never know what he would have got in a state school.

thisisnotaspoon – Member

What “real world” is that?

You know the one the majority of people live in not that bubble of protection many kids are put in these days or the privileged life of a lucky few.

Actually worried is not the right word, concerned maybe. Also it is not the the quality of the state schooling that is the major driver in the debate it is whether private school would provide a significantly better experience for them.

You know the one the majority of people live in not that bubble of protection many kids are put in these days or the privileged life of a lucky few.

So, many kids get to enjoy this bubble, but you’d rather they didn’t? What skills do kids gain by growing up in “the real world”?

I went to an average to good city comp. I dont think I gained much from it that friends at other (private) schools missed out on.

The real world is 2.4 kids and a 3 bed suburban semi, not south central LA.

“Real” world generally means “my” world. No more real that anyone else’s IMO.

anagallis_arvensis – Member
As for that **** who said rich parents should pay for state education I’d happily strangle the ****.

Ah dear Dr AS!!!! Before you strangle him, visit the school and watch some cricket. The invite to his house will soon arrive and by his own admission the carrot cake is the best in the world!!!!

A few years ago, I listened to him lecture on the problems of endless exams and testing. This is just after he introduced a pre-selection test for his school at the end of yr 7 in addition to common entrance/scholarships in year 8. Great irony (the polite version).

thisisnotaspoon – Member

So, many kids get to enjoy this bubble, but you’d rather they didn’t? What skills do kids gain by growing up in “the real world”?

I went to an average to good city comp. I dont think I gained much from it that friends at other schools missed out on.

The real world is 2.4 kids and a 3 bed suburban semi, not south central LA.

Well from a personal perspective at 22 I’ve not been out of the education system that long. I experienced state comprehensive in affluent rural area, I experienced state comprehensive in an urban area. My friends went to a mixture of state and public schools. The gap between the two state schools was vast and the experience in the public schools was like a different planet.

I’ve also spoken to professionals both in businesses and at universities. Those at universities have often mentioned how students have been so protected by their parents that they arrive at university very few life skills. Those in businesses describe young applicants as lacking a sense or responsibility and very much having a sense of entitlement.

So yes in some cases parents should allow their kids be exposed to the world as they grow up and gain life skills.

For example it is absolutely sad that some parents are feeling the need to tell their 16-18 year olds when they need to go to bed, when they are allowed to use their phones or computers, when they are allowed out.

EDIT

http://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/jan/20/boarding-school-runaways-found-dominican-republic-hotel

See these kids got fed up of the weather and ran away to a 5 star hotel…

I’ve also spoken to professionals both in businesses and at universities. Those at universities have often mentioned how students have been so protected by their parents that they arrive at university very few life skills. Those in businesses describe young applicants as lacking a sense or responsibility and very much having a sense of entitlement.

This is true to some extent. Up until fairly recently I was in charge of a few trainee lawyers who came to my department every 6 months (fresh from law school) and it is noticeable that they don’t seem to take criticism as well as older grads.

BUT, there was nothing which ever gave away what sort of secondary eduction they had. Ever.

Jnr is expected to get A* at everything, but obviously we’ll never know what he would have got in a state school.

Probably A*s.

Personal experience…

I wanted to send mine to Private school, missus is a teacher in a state school so no way, local state school it was. They were motivated and supported, this is the most important thing IMHO, there were problems, one of them insisted on a term class change to avoid some oiks the other changed classes in one subject as the class was unruly. You wouldn’t get that in Private I think(?).

However they both did well, (Girl got GCSE 8xA8*’s 2xA’s and 2xA*’s and 2xA’s at A level, Boy got 13 x A*’s at GCSE and 2xA*’s and 2xA’s at A level). She is now an actress he is off to LSE next year, they both still live at home but will inevitably go off to London at some point and very happy… or so they say. I’ll miss my lad on MTB rides next year 😥

BUT, there was nothing which ever gave away what sort of secondary eduction they had. Ever.

Two massive hints for you.

Accent

Banter

HTH 😀

BUT, there was nothing which ever gave away what sort of secondary eduction they had. Ever.

Not even a tie?

I don’t think kids get a chance to be bored in school anymore; there’s a constant drive to get every child ‘above expected progress’.

what utter bollocks. I bored loads of kids today!

They were motivated and supported, this is the most important thing IMHO

IMHO, your HO is correct.

Can’t remember the specifics but there was a chapter in Freokonomics which covered school choice. IIRC, what counted wasn’t getting the ‘good’ school of choice but making that choice. The implication was that it was the push from home which made the difference not the school itself. I suspect there’d be similar results from looking at people making the decision between state/private.