Watching Pogačar’s performance on yesterday’s stage, particularly in the final KM, made me think something’s not quite right.

I know he’s good, and not meaning to detract anything from him, but the way he just sat and span up the climb while Carapaz was clearly going very deep, and then dropping him like a stone in the final 200m made me uneasy.

Am I wrong to view his performance this tour with some scepticism?

Yes, no, maybe?

Maybe it’s the effect of the overall drop in GC challenge from week 1. He just hasn’t been pushed as hard as we would expect by this point in the tour so he is better able to defend. (defend + ! 😉 )

It’s your right to do so, but hopefully your doubts are informed by a healthy knowledge of the current road racing scene – and you realise that you are seeing the strongest GC rider in the world competing in a heavily depleted field.

I assume you expend loads more energy trying to attack and distance other riders the way Carapaz did towards the end, rather than sitting and spinning like Poj did. I’d imagine thats why Carapaz died off at the end.

There will always be question marks over how cyclists manage races like the TDF though. Fact is some form of doping/sustance taking has always been there, so the questions will always be there….

I’d like to think they are all doing it within the rules these days, but even then you get massive grey areas.

I think given the sport’s history it’s not hard to have doubts.

I know he’s good, and not meaning to detract anything from him, but the way he just sat and span up the climb while Carapaz was clearly going very deep, and then dropping him like a stone in the final 200m made me uneasy.

He was actually smiling most of the way up the climb as Carapaz was gurning like he was on fire!

There is also the fact he is only 22 and supposedly not yet at his physical peak for an endurance athlete.

Who knows? A heavily depleted field is also emphasising how good he is though.

and you realise that you are seeing the strongest GC rider in the world who’s not really had to to much to this point so is still fairly ‘fresh’ competing in a heavily depleted field.

Carapaz was gurning like he was on fire!

But it was a massive bluff, he was trying to look weak

Am I wrong to view his performance this tour with some scepticism?

Nope, I’m the same, I  look at any performance like his yesterday and start stroking my chin. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. I get that he’s effectively out on his own against fewer properly top ranked riders, but still…It was ‘very’ impressive

I’m the same, I look at any performance like his yesterday and start stroking my chin. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. I get that he’s effectively out on his own against fewer properly top ranked riders, but still…It was ‘very’ impressive

This is also how I viewed his performance :o)

I don’t think you can read too much into a riders facial expression. Some riders just look relaxed even when they are on the limit.

It’s hard to say that whether he is clean or not but he is up against 2nd string GC riders who are making him look really good.

And let’s not forget that he didn’t ride away from them, when he and Jumbo Visma Fella Who’s Name Escapes Me tried to drop Carapaz a couple of times they couldn’t, and they all pretty much crossed the line together. SO it’s not like he was another level from them.

I too have a fair bit of cynicism about him, no bad days, making good GC riders look foolish. “Not normal”.

Lance’s podcast used the phrase “they got the science right on that team”.

Prior to making up your mind it would be interesting to look at his times up these climbs in the context of other previous recent performances – not just against those he is currently racing.

As I understand it his times up some of the key climbs have not been hugely faster than previous years etc.

I did see an article discussing this somewhere with examples – I will try and find it.

His TT performance was impressive.

I am inclined to believe he is clean – he is tested to the max and wasn’t even born when the dark days of doping were going on so it seems unfair to be so cynical.

no bad days

He hasn’t needed any, the others have had them. He’s only had two particularly ‘good’ days – the TT and yesterday, the rest he’s just pretty much just ticked along as that’s all he’s had to do. And don’t forget he got showed his arse on Ventoux by Jumbo Visma Fella

he’s got data going to the car and they are telling him what to do; power, cadence, HR. they are machines, and the others broke before him.

like someone said, the GC contenders arent really there, so he’s looking good.

I almost hope he is doping because if he’s not then the GC is going to be boring as **** for the foreseeable future.

He’s actually doing this without an imposing team by his side for most of it.

Froome, G, etc all had a really strong team basically managing everything for them, not this guy.

The race to the finish was kind of exciting but it was also very obvious what the outcome would be.

It’s all very Meh

His similarity to the American rider has been mentioned in the ITV tdf podcast…

He’s only had two particularly ‘good’ days

wasn’t stage 8 a good day then?

It would be good to see him up against a fresh Bernal and Roglic etc.

He was pretty wrecked after the stage yesterday by the looks of things.

I still am a bit dubious but to a certain extent he’s got lucky this tour and yesterday showed he’s not heads and shoulders above the others all the time.

You are right to be sceptical and it’s not unreasonable given recent allegations around doping and Slovenian athletes/Operation Aderlass/Giuseppe Saronni. DYOR etc..

However,

you are seeing the strongest GC rider in the world competing in a heavily depleted field

This^. He’s focussed on the TdF as his main goal of the season not the Olympics (although he’ll go well there of course) whilst his rivals have fallen by the wayside – and the 5 min plus gap shows that. This year feels like a changing of the guard though. Pog, Vinegarstrokes, Kuss, O’Connor, Gaudu look like the future contenders not G, Pinot, Woods or Carapaz. We really need Roglic and Bernal to turn up next year for a proper scrap.

His GC performance doesn’t make me feel as uncomfortable. I know the other GC contenders aren’t as strong this year, but it’s his 1 on 1 demolition of some of the best climbers in the world (i.e. Carapaz et al) which feel harder to accept.

I honestly hope he’s clean and is just one of the best all rounders in recent years. Assuming that’s the case it does feel like a definite changing of the guard in terms of Grand Tour racing.

They said post race that they knew Carapaz was bluffing yesterday. He only put that face on when the cameras were on him. That was confirmed when he then  attacked even if ultimately unsuccessful.

As others have said, he has not really had the competition this year due to so many favourites having crashes and injuries. He took the time on the stage to Tignes and has maintained it ever since. He looked vulnerable on Mont Ventoux but got away with it.

Yesterday he was clearly on the limit at the end. As ever, to win the TDF you have to not have a bad day and he hasn’t yet whilst pretty much everyone else has.

It’s a shame when such a good ride gets drawn into doubt within hours. Unfortunately Lance Armstrong left such a long lasting impression of taking off dancing on the pedals whilst going up a mountain in yellow, that anybody else doing it now looks almost immediately suspicious.

Yesterdays stage had that exact look and Pogacar even had a similar stance and body position so people will mention the D word.

I really can’t imagine (and hope) that any rider or team is doping to previous levels although I would expect all the main teams to be pushing the boundaries and rules with what they can do under their interpretation of the rules. After all, they are at the pinnacle of the sport and the way to maximise gains is tweaking the engine to be the best and most efficient etc.

The question came up on one of the ITV highlights show and they let Matt Rendell, who is a cycling journalist I’d say I trust, interview someone from a university in the States who uses Team UAE as a source of data for research. They made it clear that they don’t care if the team wins or loses, they’re just there to study the riders and Pogacar has a lot of genetic advantages (exceptional ability to use glucose and a few other things) that mean he’s naturally excellent. They also pointed out that the rest of this year’s field isn’t great which is making Pogacar look better.

I think it was the highlights for Stage 13 or 14 (my computer isn’t loading fast enough at the moment for me to check). For now it has me convinced.

No unfortunately I don’t think you are wrong to have your doubts. For me it was less his performance yesterday than a combination of the final TT last year, the one this year and his performance on the Romme/Colombiere stage (not even LA managed to put that sort of time into his rivals on a single stage). When you add into the mix the management of UAE and recent issues in Slovenian cycling, doubts are sadly inevitable.
The other team over whom I have doubts are Bahrain Victorious (Mark Padun, Sonny Colbrelli and Damiano Caruso have all produced startling performances this year). And indeed I see that the French police have just raided the BV hotel.

I too have a fair bit of cynicism about him, no bad days, making good GC riders look foolish. “Not normal”.

But the rest of the GC riders really aren’t what you’d expect to be challenging for the win are they? Two of the best 3 GT winners aren’t there (Bernal and Roglic) and the rest of the top 10 are perennial GC make weights at best, with the exception of Carapaz and his Giro win, which lets be honest was down to Roglic crashing.

Vingegaard or Vingegogo as Kelly calls him has won naff all and people don’t seem to be casting as much suspicion over him as they are of Pogacar, his best GC result is 46th in the 2020 Vuelta.

David Gaudu has a best finish of 13th in the 2018 TdF and 8th in the 202 Vuelta.

Ben O’Connor 20th in the 2020 Giro.

Wilco Kelderman is pretty much the best of the rest.

So you see where I’m going with this, he’s just better. I’d ignore the old adage of he’s too young to peak at endurance sports, things are changing, people know a whole load more about training and most importantly recovery than they did 10 or 15 years ago, it’s not all about go and ride 200km every day and then race GT’s anymore.

As for Carapaz’ face of pain, its well documented after yesterday that it was all bluffing and that Pogacar was properly pissed off with his unwillingness to do a turn, hence the attack at the end by Pog. Some riders look like they hate every minute, some the opposite, very few top riders will ever actually display how they’re feeling – why give the game away?

Would I be amazed if any current CG contender tested positive? No. Do I think Sky were all they said they were? Very hard not to be cynical there, too murky. But I don’t think Pogacar looks dodgy, not simply by being strongest overall at the moment and not from the way he’s riding.

His similarity to the American rider has been mentioned in the ITV tdf podcast…

He’s nothing like imho. As above, some other riders who really would be testing him or in yellow right now aren’t there – not to take anything away from what Pogacar’s doing. He’s there while others have crashed out, to finish first, first you have to finish etc.

We all probably hope riders are clean/cleaner these days.

But it does not seem logical for anyone to consistently beat the rest (some of whom will be cheating) by a large amount.

Much more likely that the leader will not lead all the time and only do so by a small amount – if everyone was clean.

Any outlier must be looked at with suspicion, that’s logical.

We really need Roglic and Bernal to turn up next year for a proper scrap.

This is the most-important thing. And also for them to stay on their sodding bikes when they get there.

Obviously there’s a lot more to the TdF than just the GC win, but despite knowing that I’ve still not found myself that engaged by the race this year.

He’s nothing like imho. As above, some other riders who really would be testing him or in yellow right now aren’t there – not to take anything away from what Pogacar’s doing. He’s there while others have crashed out, to finish first, first you have to finish etc.

It’s very similar to when Nibali won back in 2014, everyone else (Froome & Contador) who could win GC crashed out or hurt them selves good style and I distinctly remember the commentary team saying that he knew he could do, lets say for arguments sake, 6W/kg for sustained efforts in the mountains and that no one else in the top 10 could, so all he had to do was cover attacks and maintain his lead safe in the knowledge that if he stayed on the bike he’d win.

I’d ignore the old adage of he’s too young to peak at endurance sports, things are changing, people know a whole load more about training and most importantly recovery than they did 10 or 15 years ago, it’s not all about go and ride 200km every day and then race GT’s anymore.

Interesting point. Common wisdom / old wives’s tales say your endurance gets better as you get into your 30s, late 30s even, but I’ve always wondered about that. I think it’s a rider’s experience and confidence, the ability to pace well, maturity as a rider if you like that improves. Seems odd to suggest the body physically recovers better with age.
Conditioning can certainly help with adaptation to training or hard days and that seems to assist or go with improved recovery but again, I think (ime, not much of it) it’s about learning how to recover and how you react, not a natural improvement that is proportional to age. So with sod all understanding of physiology to back me up I’d be tempted to think you’re right, good training can produce excellent endurance riders early in their career? (this does sound a bit like the ‘Lance lost the weight after his treatment but kept the power’ cod sports science, I realise..)

There will always be doubt in cycling

Don’t forget he is a little lucky. The crashes had big impact. Also the early TT suited him. Also the previously dominant ineos are in decline/shuffling.

I don’t think his age is unusual in recent times, see vinegaard, or Bernal for that matter

But there is always a doubt, blurred lines, etc

But it does not seem logical for anyone to consistently beat the rest (some of whom will be cheating) by a large amount.

Much more likely that the leader will not lead all the time and only do so by a small amount – if everyone was clean.

Any outlier must be looked at with suspicion, that’s logical.

Yeah I tend to see it that way, though being on great form over the TdF perhaps shouldn’t raise too many suspicions – it’s a window of form that a winning rider may have achieved better than others that year. That plus luck and tactical nous. Having said that Lance used to go on about only focusing on the Tour. There’s always examples to support the cynical view and that’s unfortunately road racing’s history.

he is tested to the max

As was Lance.

Whatever they are doing (and I dare say they are doing something) it’s different to the days of EPO and blood transfusions and seems to make for more exciting racing.

His good genetics was mentioned earlier. Could he be the first example of a bit of manipulation in that area ? No idea but I think some people were claiming that would be the next big thing a while back.

As was Lance.

And this is the worst part of Armstrong’s legacy for me.

That commenters can just say “but Lance”, without offering a contextualised understanding of the current field.

I notice someone’s even cited LA himself as putting out a coded message about Pog. That’s some brass neck.

Lance was quite a long time ago…

Pogacar has a lot of genetic advantages (exceptional ability to use glucose

Will look up that interview too, but does this mean he needs to fuel frequently (rather than enhanced glycogen storage?), does he eat a lot. I do on long rides but then I’m a bit chubby and almost 50 👍

So with sod all understanding of physiology to back me up I’d be tempted to think you’re right, good training can produce excellent endurance riders early in their career?

Well if you look at it on a slightly more amateur level, the 2018 & 2019 European 24hr solo champ was in his early 20’s.

Humans are evolving, just look at the size of teenagers now a days, they’re bigger and stronger than the same lads 30 years ago, so it kind of makes sense that it’ll happen in sport too.