Pikes over damped.on compression and under damped on rebound?

Evening all,

Just rode my new (used) pikes and I’m finding them over damped on the compression (I’ve wound the adjuster all the way off) and under damped on the rebound (I’ve got the rebound set to full and they are only just slow enough for me to be happy with them).

Anyone else experienced this? Is there possibly a fault with the damper catridge?

Any advice on the best way to go about remedying these issues would be great.

Cheers

Could be the blocked negative air spring transfer port. Seems to be a common problem. Try pumping them up to 150psi, bounce on them a few times, then let all the air out, and reinflate, stopping at 50psi and slowly compressing them a few times before continueing to fill to normal pressure.

How many psi do you have in them?

About 80psi. For my weight it says 75-85 on the leg.

I’ve also removed two bottomless tokens so it only has 1 now. Previous rider had 3 in there.

The rebound should be able to go very slow at that pressure, so something is wrong.

Are they topping out despite the rebound being wound almost all the way on (knocking at full extension), also if you hold the wheel down and pull up on the bars do they extend?

Thanks for confirming. What’s my options to sort it then folks?

Always used to use tf-tuned but that was 10 years ago…

Who’s good?

Any damper. Upgrades I could just buy and bolt in myself?

First thing is to figure out whats wrong with them, alternatively just send them to tf tuned.

Are they due a service anyway?

No idea if they are due a service. Bought them used from the classifieds here

No top out, and no extension when you pull in the bars. Presume you ate thinking about the negative air spring equalising issue that I’ve read about. Don’t think it’s the air spring, it’s the damper causing it I think.

Okay, send your fork into TF tuned – ask for either the FAST revalve or the FAST Revalve + High Speed and Low Speed adjuster. They will custom shim the fork for you and revalve the porting.

It is well known that the rebound is shonky on the Pike and this causes the fork to spike – that is likely to be what you are feeling.

When I did it, it resulted in a considerable improvement in feel, support and outright grip – that I have only just come to really appreciate. I’ve never had a front end contact patch that I know exactly what is going on before and have complete trust in.

Here is my review

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/fast-damper-tune-mini-review

I’d actually rate it even more highly now, than back then. Don’t be put off by my racey tune – you can ask for something a bit milder.

The cost of the damper upgrade includes the 90 quid service from TF Tuned – so your fork will come back working like new as well.

best sit down Price list

Considering that it includes the service cost as well, I don’t think the price is that bad if you are unhappy with the fork.

The 225 quid modification is so extensive that there isn’t much left of the original damper….the external assembly, the piston rod and the bladder being about all is left.

For me, it’s been an improvement in safety as well – the front end of my bike is so predictable that I haven’t had a single wash out – feeling very very at home on my bike right now. 🙂

Whilst your at it, ask them to fit the PUSH seals – both my dads Lyriks and my Pike were at 0 hour service – the PUSH seals feel brand new – the SKF seals became very very sticky after 30 hours of riding.

Sod paying £300 for a service and new damper internals. I don’t really want more adjustment, just want the current ones to work in a use able range

Its not 300 is it – 225 includes the cost of the service.

Seeing as you don’t want the extra adjustment – in that case, get the 160 quid revalve + service. 70 pounds extra for custom pistons and shim stack configerations so that the compression range is right for your tastes and if it’s not – they’ll even revalve it for free if you send it back within 30 days!

Jesus, do people read? If you’re such a good rider as to be complaining about compression tunes – then to have people who know what they are doing get it right for you – costs. It’s that simple – engineers and technicians aren’t minimum wage monkeys. If you want something right – expect to pay for it – off the shelf stuff is never perfect unless you’re the marketing departments idea of an average rider.

Totally different mindset in the motorbike world, instead of splashing hundreds if not thousands on bling forks people just tend get older/stock forks reshimmed as it’s invariably better than purchasing some off the shelf gold fork.

However, if you think you can do the work yourself – the Adreani group in Italy sell a drop in Ohlins piston and shim kit. It’s almost as much as the FAST/TF Tuned one and won’t be as accurate for your weight – so I’d suggest looking at the shim sizes/thickness and buying some shims online and playing around with them – you will still need the Ohlins pistons though as the Rock Shox ones have so much flow that a reshim will make jack all difference. Trial by error will probably cost you 50 hours of riding and dissasembling/rebuilding the fork.

I find them overdamped because I weigh nowt, so I have the compression wound completely off. But the rebound seems fine and I have barely any less pressure than you. So something ain’t right

I thought that was on top of the service price. £160 is a lot more what I was thinking. Will have another read, cheers for that

They’re not hugely overdamped unless you weigh 120 lbs – they just spike – mine are even more heavily damped than they were before – yet I get a lot lot less harsh feedback through the bars.

Nope, it’s not ontop of the service price.

Nah, they’re overdamped, for me. I’ve switched over to some 36s which have a base range that works better for me, but if I was keeping the Pikes I’d have changed for a thinner oil too see what that did. They’re a wee bit spiky too mind.

Before you go wild $$ on the service

have you tried tokens and less pressure?

theres also a mod you can do which only requites some circlip pliers and some float fluid….

If its the solo air version anyway, you can open up the lower air chamber, clean out the grease and replace with float fluid, make sit much smoother

theres also a mod you can do which only requites some circlip pliers and some float fluid….

Go on….

But I’d say you should be servicing them once a year, unless you like throwing forks out or you can do it yourself.

Tom you’re making this thread a bit heated matey, I’m asking for advice not an argument.

My forks are clearly not working right as the rebound isn’t a useful range.

I’m wandering if paying for this upgraded damping internals will necessarily fix the fault. Will tf-tuned find a fault first if there is one?

I used them ten years ago to PUSH tune a vanilla rc and the result was brilliant. Have had a friend use them recently and got a really poor service from them so I’m a bit wary.

I’m taking it the 225 option means I wouldn’t bother with bottomless tokens anymore as I can wind the high speed.compression up instead?

Yeah they will find the fault as well – you could ask them to do that first before going ahead with the upgrade.

I dropped from 2 bottomless tokens to 1 when I did the full upgrade, but I don’t want to say that you could.

Cool cheers for that. Will probably send them in for a fault find but thinking about it like the idea of fast and slow speed compression adjustment.

Is there a completely new top cap then?

Go on….

The chamber (-ve chamber?) with the wavy washer in, normally has 5cc of grease in it
open it up by the circlip-snap ring on diagram-(and depressing the tab on the seal head with a screwdriver at the same time)

clean that out and replace with 5ml of float fluid
this diagram is a solo air reba, but, its the same deal

port no longer gets clogged up and it handles bigger, fatser hits smoother, not as nice as my old rc3tis but still better than stock

Yup, totally new top cap assembly, totally new compression rod, new basically everything….the cartridge is gutted.

Ill take a picture of all the old parts you get back….this weekend.

If you don’t know their history then I’d get them serviced anyway. I (and thousands of other riders) really rate the Charger damper on the Pike – when it’s working properly it’s bloody good. If you’re outside the main target audience (weight/style/speed etc) then a custom tune may be required.

To add ask them to install the 2016 seal head….that massively improves reliability. It stops the damper from pissing oil under hard bending forces.

Don’t think I’m outside the main audience at all. I’m a slightly overweight bloke in his 30s who likes to ride trail centres and the peak District plus a week in France every other year. Raced a bit of DH a decade ago but I’m far from Gee Atherton. I did beat Tracey Moseleys time on a race in France one though which was my claim to fame lol.

I reckon I’m going to get them diagnosed then go from there.

Can anyone else restore my faith in TF-Tuned after my friends bad experience last year?

Thanks again Tom. Think you’ve sold me on this upgrade, need to somehow get the permission slip stamped by the wife now lol

TF Tuned are generally great, we had an issue once – they came back with a leaking damper but the old man got an MRP Ramp Control unit thrown in for free (120 quid).

They’re brilliant – but like everywhere they occassionally get something wrong. At least when they do, they own up to it and say sorry. They also found some issues with his Monarch (lumps on the inside of the air can) that Fishers failed to spot after he complained of notchiness – which they promptly removed.

They’re a good bunch of people.

Also if you do get the low/high speed adjusters – just remember that there will now be 24 clicks of each based around an existing tune that is already very close for you. So each click is ery subtle in car park bounce tests – but becomes much more apparent when you ride it.

I had the pefect test run by taking them to Antur Stiniog for their first day out – where I could do loads of runs on what was basically one gigantic rock garden. Read my review before you purchase them, there is also a review over at Enduro mag.

Yeh I always highly rated them ten years ago. Only got back into riding a couple of years ago and recommended them to my mate who got a bum deal from them. To be fair they did sort it out but it was the hassle. I felt really bad on my recommendation after that.

Right decision made, £225 fast upgrade it is. Is the top cap pink anodised like the ones on Google images?

You can choose between purple and black! I like the purple as it’s blinger but the black one is definately stealthier and people won’t notice than you’re a bling tart.

Mine went from great to crap in a very short space of time. I’d somehow managed to blow the innards apart, much to the amusement of the mechanic. A regular £40 service sorted them. I know you’ve decided to spend a lot more than that and go to one of the big suspension guys but i’d suggest just a service first. You may be very happy with the performance once working properly (and you’ll probably stick another token in).

Most of the folk i know who spend big on suspension upgrades don’t ride fast or hard enough to warrant the extra cost – but it’s cool to talk about having it done (don’t know you Tom so this doesn’t apply to you).

Blimey. The first thing I’d do with a set of unknown forks is pull them apart and service them. Does the quasi-lockout work on yours btw?

Seriously, I dismantled mine, changed the seal-head (common problem with earlier Pikes, if the lockout thing has no effect it’s quite possibly this) bled the charger damper after changing the fluid and put them back together and I’m not exactly a pro level mechanic. There are some excellent how to instructions out there if you google for them.

I’m sure the TFT upgrade is good, but it’s not like the standard Pike is viewed by most people as a grossly inadequate fork. And there’s always the thing where people compare a new part with one that’s basically failed and, surprise, surprise, the new one works much better.

Anyway, I’d get the Pikes working properly as intended and then decide whether you need to spend a load more money upgrading them.

ps: I’ve used TFT in the past and they’ve been great for me. Nothing against them, I’m just unconvinced that 1. you wouldn’t be able to do a service yourself 2. that when the forks are working as RS intended, you’ll still feel you need to upgrade them. Anyway, I’m sure they’ll do a good job if you do go that way.

If you aren’t sure if something new to you is working right, it’s not that easy to be sure you’ve fixed it when you service it – that’s where experience counts. I totally agree that for 90%+ of riders the stock Pike’s damping is excellent.

Im not sure that spending 70 to 120 extra quid on a 700 quid fork and likely 2.5 grand bike is “spending big”. People spend more on tires – doesnt matter if youre fast enough to warrant it – a properly tuned fork will make beginners more comfortable as well.

The OP might know how to bleed the cartridge but I doubt hell have the expertise to recognize faulty parts and resize bushings.

A regular 40 quid service sounds an awful lot like a simple bleed and lower oil change….im not sure that a technician being suprised by a blown charger damper would instill confidence in me….they arent exactly the most reliable of dampers due to the old seal head.

By all means think about how much youre spending OP – but at the very minimum go with a decent service – not some bike shop mechanics idea of one.