A lot of budding and very good photographers on here, so hopefully some of you might be able to advise

I keep looking for courses that could help me take my photography up a level.

Not looking to become pro or even sell, just take better shots.

I keep getting emails from the Photography Institute about on-line courses.

Anybody ever tried their services, and if so what do you think. Did it help, was it worth the money?

My gut feeling is to avoid 🙂

Thanks in advance

7

No experience of them but one thing I’ve been looking into recently is RPS Qualifications.

http://www.rps.org/distinctions-introduction

I think it would involve more self-learning with a bit of feedback rather than a course, but might be worth having a look at.

At first glance I read the title of your thread as “Photographing Prostitutes”… 😯 😳

Try your local college or council, they might run some part time evening courses in their adult education department.

I have just trialled the NCFE Level 1 Photography course through the local council for free (standard charge is £50, we were trialing a distance learning version so got it free). I think they go all the way up to Level 3 which is £150. The L1 course is pretty basic stuff (how the camera works, what aperture is etc) but the assignments proved to be interesting and a challenge at times.

Cheers for ideas all

Anybody ever tried their services, and if so what do you think. Did it help, was it worth the money?

Yes.

Not a lot.

A bit.

Nope.

PI is fine if you’re aiming to go into business, but I felt like it was a case of they’re interested in taking your money off you, then **** all after that.

There’s twelve modules in the course, I got to the seventh and lost my “mojo” a bit. I talked to my course tutor about it, but he couldn’t have cared less. Subsequently I haven’t touched it since June last year but nobody’s been in contact to try to chivvy me up.

Also, the diploma at the end of it is NOT a recognised qualification.

Better off joining the RPS and trying for a distinction IMHO, I’m working towards my licenciate so I can have LRPS after my name!!

No experience of them but one thing I’ve been looking into recently is RPS Qualifications.

http://www.rps.org/distinctions-introduction

I think it would involve more self-learning with a bit of feedback rather than a course, but might be worth having a look at.

Some of their portfolios are just amazing: http://www.rps.org/advisory_zone/Successful-Panels

I signed up to a Flickr group a couple of years ago to take One Photo A Day and was surprised how much my photography improved. I didn’t learn anything technically but when you have to make a half decent photo from a normal mundane Tuesday it’s surprising how you view buildings, the sky, things around the house etc in a different way..

The point of this was that some people on the group were also doing the Practical Photography DSLR skills course and posting their assignments as their photo of the day. It looks like they do this every year so it could be worth keeping an eye on this page? I don’t know if you have to subscribe to the magazine though…
DSLR skills 2012

If you’re interested, some STW’ers are on this group:
Flickr – One Photo Every Week

Some of their portfolios are just amazing: http://www.rps.org/advisory_zone/Successful-Panels

The RPS is funny – my Father-in-law is a member (not sure what degree), so I borrow his magazines. There are some very good photographers, but also some total rubbish, so I’m not sure it’s the best way to actually get “good” at photography whatever that means.

The only way to take better photographs is to take lots of photographs – courses, books, 3D instructional videos are just a way of taking your money. Find books of photographers you like instead, and try to copy their styles. Work out what makes their images work. And most importantly keep taking photos.

There are some very good photographers, but also some total rubbish, so I’m not sure it’s the best way to actually get “good” at photography whatever that means.

You could say that of any kind of ‘qualification’ in something subjective. For me it would be about a personal challenge/achievement.

but also some total rubbish,

Yep, there were a couple of portfolios on there where I’d just be embarrassed if I’d created them. Most were way beyond my talents though…

I agree with Beanum and the comments about just taking lots of photos. Doing the 365 photo thing has taught me a lot, and I’ve been pleased with some of the photos I’ve taken, and what I have learnt – even if my pics are nowhere near as good as some of those I see on here!

I’ve found doing a 365 useful too. Makes you get out when you don’t feel like it and try different things. Not sure my 10.30pm ‘oh shit I’ve forgotten to do anything else’ pictures of my cats are teaching me a whole lot though.

Look up a local camera club, you will be able to enter competitions and your work will be judged against others with the rational explained. Although subjective due to different judges your work will improve.

I tried it. Don’t bother, spend the cash on kit or a face-to-face course of some kind. You’ll get a lot more out of it, I discovered the hard way that photography is a hands on activity and therefore hands on learning is best.

Thanks Guys, great feedback, and food for thought.

I’ll not be taking them up on their offer 🙂

but also some total rubbish

Who’s to say what’s rubbish and what isn’t? Surely that’s the whole point of any creative media? It may not float your boat but that doesn’t mean it’s rubbish.

A lot of people don’t “get” Damien Hirst and subsequently write his work off as expensive, pointless tat. Personally I think the guy’s a genius. Who’s right and who’s wrong?

1.Take more pictures and / or take more time over taking your pictures.
2.Look at them. Analyse them. What are you happy with? What are you not happy with? Let your thoughts soak in. Repeat step 1.
3.Look at people whose work you admire – be it photography or other realms of the arts. What inspires you? Let it soak in. Repeat step 1
3a. A lot of good (and bad….) photographers offer training these days. Take a look at what they offer and maybe book a treat for yourself. Let what you learn soak in. Repeat step 1.
4. Used a fixed lens – not zoom (or, at least vow to keep you zoom set at only, say 50mm). Want to vary composition / zoom in / out – simples – move your legs. Repeat step 1
5. A better camera does not make you a better photographer. If you’re using an SLR, better lenses will help give you a much sharper result from the same camera body. Repeat step 1, knowing that your skills, and images will improve, whilst other just stand there counting mega-pixels.
6. If you’re ultimately looking to make a bit of money from what you do, never forget that a shonky image, marketed well will always sell better than a great image marketed badly.
Now, where do I send my invoice 😉

Who’s right and who’s wrong?

Well I’m right and you’re all wrong.

Does that help?

Good advice from marsdenman.

I think my photography came on in leaps and bounds through using mainly fixed lenses (including old manual focus/aperture ones) when I first got into it. 90% of the time I would just go out with one fixed lens – still do quite often.

Local camera clubs are a mixed bag IME. Some are quite unambitious in their scope and fussy about ‘rules’ etc.

4. Used a fixed lens – not zoom (or, at least vow to keep you zoom set at only, say 50mm). Want to vary composition / zoom in / out – simples – move your legs. Repeat step 1

Ignore this. Moving closer or further away is NOT AT ALL the same as zooming in and out. I can’t believe anyone who knows the first thing about cameras (and I am not in any way an expert) would think that changing the focal length does nothing else except move you closer or further away from the subject!

Perspective is one of the most important factors in photography imo, and varying the focal length is an enormously powerful and flexible creative option. Yes, you could have a whole load of primes from 9mm to 300mm but it’d cost a fortune and changing lenses is a right faff.

Good advice from marsdenman.

agreed
add – look at lots of photos, photo magazines are a good place with a range of images and sometimes include crits of reader’s images. Study the pictures, do you like them, why? could you improve them, how?
Competitions are good – do them and you have a brief which will make you think about what they’re doing, look at the results, what makes them stand out?

Ignore this. Moving closer or further away is NOT AT ALL the same as zooming in and out. I can’t believe anyone who knows the first thing about cameras (and I am not in any way an expert) would think that changing the focal length does nothing else except move you closer or further away from the subject!

Perspective is one of the most important factors in photography imo, and varying the focal length is an enormously powerful and flexible creative option. Yes, you could have a whole load of primes from 9mm to 300mm but it’d cost a fortune and changing lenses is a right faff.
Ignore this. Physically moving yourself in and out will change your perspective and make you think more about where you’re positioning yourself before you take the picture. It’s about learning first. One you’re happy with the pics you’re getting go with the convenience of a zoom, but bear in mind that you will either lose a lot of light gathering ability and brightness or a lot of money

Physically moving ind aout will change your perspective and make you think more about where you’re positioning yourself before you take the picture. It’s about learning first

What on earth are you talking about?

Zooming is not a substitute for moving. A shot depends on where you are AND what focal length you are using. Considering zooming just a convenience is ridiculous.

A 50mm prime gives a certain kind of shot. Why would you choose to ignore all the other shots you could take until you’ve ‘mastered’ the 50mm? Makes no sense to me.

You have to understand what zooming does to your pictures AS WELL as understanding what positioning does. You need both, otherwise you are only looking at a sub-set of possibilities.

Ignore this. Moving closer or further away is NOT AT ALL the same as zooming in and out. I can’t believe anyone who knows the first thing about cameras (and I am not in any way an expert) would think that changing the focal length does nothing else except move you closer or further away from the subject!

Perspective is one of the most important factors in photography imo, and varying the focal length is an enormously powerful and flexible creative option. Yes, you could have a whole load of primes from 9mm to 300mm but it’d cost a fortune and changing lenses is a right faff.

molgrips – marsdenman is a professional photographer. And he’s right too. Why are you so scared of only using one fixed lens?

A 50mm prime gives a certain kind of shot. Why would you choose to ignore all the other shots you could take until you’ve ‘mastered’ the 50mm? Makes no sense to me.

I think the stick to a 50mm prime advice is a hark back to the old days where all SLR’s were full-frame and a 50mm lens creates an image which most closely resembles what the eyes see. So you wandered around, spotted a scene you liked and took a shot. The intention is to train the eye to spot a good shot before getting the camera out at all.

Obviously crop sensors screw that up a bit and as you mentioned there are creative reasons to want to use other focal lengths but the general advice is still fairly sound, it gets you thinking about the shot rather than just snapping away at random, and once you have a grounding in basic composition then you can start to ‘see’ more creative opportunities.

I’m not scared of it, that’s my point. I use primes fairly often and enjoy it.

But I can’t understand why anyone would tell a beginner not to use a zoom. Makes no sense. It’s also impractical. Just looking at some wide angle shots I took of the family last summer. To get them in with a 50mm prime I’d have had to walk across the car park and cross the road.

Where’s Daddy? Oh, he’s way over there, everybody look and wave!

Say cheese!

WHAT?

I SAID SAY CHEESE! CHEEEESE!

YOU WANT HAY PLEASE? WHAT?

And great that he’s a pro. Maybe he’ll be able to explain 🙂

it gets you thinking about the shot rather than just snapping away at random

Thinking about your shot is great advice, but I still can’t see why having a zoom prevents or discourages you from doing that. I still think about composition, I think about what I want in the shot, but I use the zoom AND my feet to get it the way I want.

Or are you saying it’s too complicated for beginners to think about?

50mm lens creates an image which most closely resembles what the eyes see

When looking through a little window, yes. But when you are walking around Barcelona or whatever, you aren’t looking through a little window. Your head and eyes are moving around all the time.

And why would you want to reproduce what the eye sees, when you have so many more options. It’s impossible to reproduce actually being somewhere, that’s the whole point of photography as an art form. Your job is to make images painted with the things around you. Different for portraits, documentary photos etc obviously.

Have a “client”

Have someone or somewhere to “deliver” your photos to, regularly. This forces you to go through the whole process and have a finished “product”. Keep “delivering” photos and look through the old ones critically. Having a 365 project is just one of a lot of ways of doing this. Blogs, friends, volunteer publications, book projects, course deadlines or actual real clients are also ways of doing this.

The pressure of delivering something will help you push yourself and to experiment and think creatively. You will shoot longer, get up earlier and/or be less shy. Having a time limit or deadline means you have to commit to a finished image so you can see how your finished images evolve. Doing this regularly means you keep your “eye in”.

There is nothing quite so motivating as knowing that someone will be looking critically at your images. There are few things as helpful as recognising what you did wrong in an image and figuring out how to avoid it (or use it to advantage) in future.

Some thoughts from someone a bit further along than me:

http://strobist.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/thinking-out-loud-creativity.html

What on earth are you talking about?

About learning to to develop as a photographer. We weren’t all born with your surf-matt level of awesomeness in everything, you know.

Ignore this.

Sorry – i’ll qualify point 4. What i should have said is to use a fixed focal length lens as a tool to learn how it ‘sees’ things, therefore how you see things – or, a molgrips puts it, how perspective works and how it impacts not only how you see things but how they are recorded.
An extreme example – take a wide-angle lens – great for landscapes. Use it to take a full frame headshot – a ‘lovely’ round face – funny, perhaps but unlikely to be the sort of thing a professional portrait photog wants.
If you’re really bored one day, use your software to take a look at the exif data on shots you take with a zoom, i bet you’ll see (and I’m no exception) that you’ve worked at roughly 3 points on the zoom scale of that lens – the widest end, the middle setting and the longest (zoomed in) setting.

I am not, at all, advocating anyone should only use a set of prime lenses…
Though it may be you find one lens covers all you need – I love the work of Jane Bown – she spent (apparently) her whole working life using just one Olypmus (film) body and a fixed 50mm lens…

Also (the reason why i clicked back on this thread) don’t forget the interwb – there is a lot of learning out there for free.
Creative Live put out a lot of stuff, for free – watch the live broadcasts for nowt, the only thing is they usually run at weekend, 5pm to midnight UK time. You can sign up and buy the shows after they run for around £100 each – depends if you pre-register (cheaper) or commit after the event.

Also, blogs – again, find folk whose work you like and who you connect with – in amongst a lot of BS, product placement and so called ‘Superstar Photographers’ – great at marketing = great at selling = making a great living whilst not always (IMO) being that good at photography, there is the odd beacon of light – for example – I love Zack Arias

i would steer clear of stuffy camera clubs full of old men with food in their beards, and the RPS looks like a backslapping organisation with a questionable peer review system of ‘acceptance’
just look around and see what inspires you and other images you like on the web, theres plenty of info and examples out there.

would look at how your current lens behaves and understand what it changes at the wide end and the narrow end. i wouldn’t worry about having a prime lens or not either.

take pics, make mistakes, learn from them.

What i should have said is to use a fixed focal length lens as a tool to learn how it ‘sees’ things, therefore how you see things

I think I see where you are coming from a bit better. You do need to spend time understanding the effects of focal length, so you’re suggesting that having only one with you means you’ll end up understanding that particular focal length more, before moving to a different one…?

I do sometimes go out with only my 9-18mm, which whilst still a zoom does force me to only take wide angle shots.

The thing is, what we do as photographers is all different. I’ve got a young family so most of what I am doing is done either as an aside to a family day out or it’s documenting family gatherings. It’s not like I am given a specific brief and spend half a day trying to complete it. Other people would be doing that, perhaps people on courses.

a ‘lovely’ round face – funny, perhaps but unlikely to be the sort of thing a professional portrait photog wants

Yea, but what if you’re not learning to be a professional portrait photographer? I’ve got both kinds of portrait as keepers, and more. Hanging around with the same two kids all day doing the same stuff, now that forces you to be creative with your pictures 🙂

The thing is, what we do as photographers is all different, but i’m right. I’ve got a young family so most of what I am doing is done either as an aside to a family day out or it’s documenting snapshots of family gatherings with an expensive camera. It’s not like I am given a specific brief and spend half a day trying to complete it. Other people would be doing that, perhaps people on courses who are trying to learn about taking photographs with some artistic merit, not just snaps of the kids.

spot of perspective changing, no zoom lens involved

Having just typed all that – I see things have progressed a bit….

Molgrips – you’re point about the family shot to me underlines the point i’m trying (badly) to make.
The zoom lens in convenient – in your case it made it easier for you to get the shot you wanted. Nothing at all wrong in that, nothing at all. On ‘family’ days i’ll most likely have a zoom on there as well…
However, had i been out with just, lets say a 50mm prime, on there, and the shout goes up for a family shot I either
a. make the space I need – as you say, not always convenient.
b. think ‘f’it – can’t be bothered to move / wrangle the family and not get a shot at all’
c. quickly (and it does not take long) reshuffle the family to fill the frame in the space you’ve got.

Finally (on lens choice) I use zooms 99.9 % of my working life as they are, for want of a better word, convenient – i chase around enough at a wedding or lifestyle portrait shoot, without adding more running back and too into the equation 😉 Making a serious point of this wee statement – perspective – I tend to work mostly at the 200mm end of my zoom @ F4 = isolating figures from the landscape around them, whilst not being in their face with the camera.
That said, the most fun I’ve had with my camera this last year was a shoot out and about with fellow photogs – I chose to just use my D700 and 50mm 1.8 lens.

🙂

Edit – Right – that’s it – i’m way behind with edits on two shoots that are promised to be online for tonight (and I’m an hour late going home to walk the dog!) so, whilst i’d like to add a couple more thoughts = molgrips has raised the most important thought – have fun and enjoy what you’re doing – if (for example) ’round face’ portraits make you smile, have fun with your family whilst improving your skill levels with that particular technique 😉

Ok, one final thought – aim to get the shot right in camera – saves a lot of time ‘saving’ shots in your editing software. Getting to know your kit, and how it works / how it does not work (even top end pro stuff is far from perfect). It takes a little time to master but, once you have, the time is more than paid back – I shoot almost 100% on manual now. I can take a shot, tweak the exposure and take another one typically a lot, lot quicker than a poorly exposed one can be corrected in the editing… and, it is still, to me, a great feeling to see a correctly exposed / framed image pop up on screen.

Right, dog walking beckons….

Re the OP I am perhaps in a similar vein to you and am looking to improve my photography. Perhaps I am more of a beginner than you though.

Like you I’ve been looking at courses such as this one local to me http://www.ffotogallery.org/introduction-to-photography-beginners but with some trepidation.

Anyway, just a mention as there might be similar organisations close to your location offering similar courses. Our local Council also runs adult learning courses so that could also be worth checking out close to you.

molgrips – I really don’t know why you’ve got such a bee in your bonnet about this. For many people, imposing limitations can be an effective aid to creativity and learning. If its not for you then fine, but why (somewhat angrily!) discount it for everyone else too?

Lots of great photographers managed just fine with only a 50mm lens.

I don’t like BBSB’s implication that just because a photograph is taken quickly it’s a ‘snapshot’ and therefore less worthy than one that’s been agonised over. Photography to me is an art not a craft.

I’ve just tossed last year’s Colin Prior calendar in the recycling, but I’ve got ‘snapshots’ of my kids all over the house. Of course we all have pics of our kids on the walls cos they’re our kids, but my point is that the value of a picture is not related to how long it took to create.

Anyway, I was thinking about this picnic shot over lunch. It’s not a brilliant shot, but it would have been impossible with a 50mm or equivalent. I stood up near the blanket and everyone else was sat around it. If I’d backed off I may have got the whole blanket in but because the angles would all have been different I’d have missed loads of faces.

quickly (and it does not take long) reshuffle the family to fill the frame in the space you’ve got

I can play this scenario out in my mind and it would almost certainly have resulted in a great shot, but I’m not bold enough with my picture taking yet to start organising people 🙂 Most of my pics are candid, because as well as being normal family pics they are documenting our family life at the time.

molgrips – I really don’t know why you’ve got such a bee in your bonnet about this.

Well, my language is perhaps a little more forceful than I intended it to be, and thanks to others for not getting angry. It’s the categorical statement that a prime IS the best way to learn that I disagree with. Some people may benefit from the limitation, some may not.

It seems to me that taking pictures at say 50mm is a different activity to taking them at 300mm or 10mm. It’s like comparing say, watercolour, and oil painting, or charcoal sketching vs pen.

If I spent a year with a 50mm I’d get better at taking 50mm shots, but be rubbish at wide angle pictures or long range wildlife pics. My 9-18mm is my most recent acquisition, and guess which kind of picture I suck the most at?

I can play this scenario out in my mind and it would almost certainly have resulted in a great shot, but I’m not bold enough with my picture taking yet to start organising people

Great example of how you would have been forced to learn something if you’d only had a 50mm lens. 🙂

It’s the categorical statement that a prime IS the best way to learn

Last time (honest!) I add to this thread.
Purely to clarify that I did not intend my comment to be read as any sort of definitive.
Though I can understand how it is interpreted as such.

Bottom line –
Take more pictures.
Take inspiration from the work of others – pictures / paintings / music – whatever you connect with – whatever inspires you, it will have an impact on what you do. Sometime obvious, sometimes far more subliminal.
Learn from the above.
Take more pictures
& repeat…..

and don’t be keen to jump on the upgrade bandwagon….
It could be said I’m about 2 generation ‘out of date’ with my camera bodies – I very much want to trade the D300 against a new D600 but for technical reasons (better high ISO performance – working in dark churches & venues stretches my main camera, D700 to its limit) I sure as heck know I will not be £2k worth a ‘better photographer’ for my investment.

Nothing to argue with there Marsden Man.

With you on the upgrade thing to. I’m using an Olympus SLR and becoming secretly proud of being niche 🙂