Time to get a new waterproof, primarily for hillwalking.

Broadly speaking I’m torn between two (I’ve already got them and will return one or both, depending on whether any bargains crop up between now and when I need to use it) but one, a Rab Firewall, is Pertex Shield (3 layer), which is an unknown quantity to me. The other is a Mountain Equipment Shivling, which is Gore Tex Pro.

The Firewall has a slightly better fit and general comfort, and a good-sized chest pocket which I wish more jackets would have. And (thanks to YHA discount) it’s £50 cheaper.

Thing is, whilst I know Gore Tex Pro will be good, testing the Firewall in the field would obviously mean not being able to return it if the fabric doesn’t perform well.

That’s where you folks come in 🙂 Any insights as to the general performance of Shield?

Ah, very interested in this one as I am also after a new jacket for the winter (in fact one each for me and the Mrs). The previous hillwalking jackets have given us 8-9 years of decent service and they’re GoreTex so my default would be that route again.

And no. Not Paramo.

While I’m here, I’ll also ask what Paclite is like these days.

I’ve got an old (like nearly 20 years) Gore Bike Wear Paclite which I’ve found works well, and a Berghaus jacket which I thought was Paclite but now I check seems to be Active.

The Mountain Equipment Garwhal seems like a potential cheaper option, but again (since I assume Paclite has evolved—it looks and feel different to the one I have) I’m not sure how well the fabric performs.

Aye. I’m looking at the ME Saltoro

My wife just bought that one. Seems ok, and the Paclite is certainly different to my old one (and I wouldn’t really want it next to skin on wet-but-warm days). But we’ve not yet tested it in anger.

I’ve a Shivling and my wife has a Montane made from Pertex Shield that she’s had for years and abused a lot (it’s hardly ever washed, rarely re-proofed), both are excellent and still doing sterling jobs. I’d say the Pertex is less breathable but that doesn’t bother her as she’s not a sweaty bugger like me.

Ive got two identical Haglof paclites, one in an older material and one in the latest. I also have a Rab Charge which is Shield+ and a pair of berghaus paclite trousers in the latest material.

basically they are all excellent, I use them all year round and especially winter alpine mountaineering as they are so light. The newer paclite is slightly better than the older, it isn’t as clammy. Probably as the surface has a bit of texture to it. No idea if it’s any more breathable, both are good enough for me.

The Rab pertex shield was bought on a whim but it has become my regular jacket, very impressive. It is stretchy, which I thought wouldn’t last but so far (4-5) years it has with very minor leakage at wear points. Bear in mind it is gossamer thing though. Fit wise and hood, the Rab jacket is perfect, also excellent as a bike waterproof.

I would buy either again

I’d rewind slightly and decide what your priorities are. Gore-Tex Pro is very durable for its weight and decently breathable. It’s mostly specced on mountaineering jackets that are going to get a shedload of hammer. The one downside is that it’s quite a noisy fabric, which may or may not bother you. Wandering around with the hood up in a storm for a few hours gets quite wearing ime. What you also get with Gore is a slightly anal focus on quality, so you know that the face and liner fabrics have been tested for durability abrasion resistance, dye-fastness etc. It’s one of the reasons it’s so expensive.

I’d say Shield is less breathable and less durable, probably quieter depending on what version it is. But it’s a decent all-round fabric and if your idea of hill-walking is relatively low to medium output rather than beasting yourself and you don’t run too hot, it should do the job.

Personally I get on better with the ME cut than the standard Rab version – the latest Rab Gore-Tex jackets are really high volume and look horrible if that bothers you, but I think the Firewall is an earlier vintage of design. Whichever you choose, make sure you’re happy with the hood fit, so you can move your head easily with the hood moving with it. Look up and down unimpeded and don’t have a tight spot on your chin. Ditto, if you’re going to be scrambling, make sure you can raise your arms above your head and out in front of you without the hem pulling up or feeling restricted.

I’ve always disliked Paclite, the new version doesn’t do much for me. It just seems to be Gore’s price-point fabric, but Active and Pro are both much better fabrics ime.

Good points. Tried a few more things, including a pair of rucksacks.

The hood on the Rab is the better of the two in “batten down the hatches mode” but the chin is high and perhaps a little tight with the hood down (the hood is stowable but the implementation isn’t good enough to make it worth stowing). The ME has an odd cut around the shoulders that twists the arms, but the arms work better (ie are longer) when stretched out: the ME is a little longer in the arm, the Rab a little longer in the body. The Rab definitely doesn’t seem high volume; quite similar to the ME if not a little narrower. The Pertex is definitely quieter than the Gore and has a little stretch.

I do sweat a fair bit and the breathability of the Pertex fabric is something I’d be cautious of.

The one thing that does bug me about the ME, though, is the pockets. The zip pulls sit almost in the armpit, which seems a really odd design to me. It means that not only do you end up operating them with the opposite hand, but they end up buried behind rucksack shoulder straps. If we’re counting accessible pockets with a pack on then the Rab scores three and the ME zero.

Hmm. I can find the Makalu at a similar price, and that has a chest pocket… maybe I should give that a punt.

The ME has an odd cut around the shoulders that twists the arms, but the arms work better (ie are longer) when stretched out: the ME is a little longer in the arm, the Rab a little longer in the body.

The guys at ME spent three years working with specialist pattern cutters to develop that fit 🙂 the idea is that it gives a super neat fit but without compromising mobility. They have a more generous ‘mountain fit’, the alpine fit on the Shivling and the Makalu is trimmer. But ultimately it’s just down to what fits you best.

I have the Rab Firewall. Really like the fit of the jacket and the pit zips are awesome. I’ve worn it alot though and it needs waterproofing again. I’ve had a couple of pertex shield jackets now, breathability is good combined with the pitzips, but I may be tempted to go back to goretex for the next jacket as the waterproofing has never been amazing

The guys at ME spent three years working with specialist pattern cutters to develop that fit 🙂 the idea is that it gives a super neat fit but without compromising mobility.

It is quite impressive how the arms stay covered when stretched out.

I’m built like a spider monkey, so the Alpine fit definitely sounds the better of the two 🙂

I assume the 40D Gore Tex Pro on the Shivling and the 75D Gore Tex on the Makalu are going to be comparable in use, maybe the former just a little more breathable?

On paper the Tupilak looks a winner as well (tougher fabric, better pockets) depending on how well the hood works without a helmet.

I’ve got a Rab Spark with Peter shield, very breathable with good big enough for helmet / extra length in back.

Also had a Paclite. Pretty similar from performance level – prefer the fit of the Spark.

I’ve decided the ME Shivling gets the nod unless an amazing deal on the Tupilak pops up soon. The lack of ride-up of the sleeves with arm movement is that good. That plus the reassurance of the fabric swings it.

I have a Berghaus Lite Hiker at work – and it is the best jacket I have had in a decade.

Longer for hillwalking, chest pockets, great hood and the Hydroshell Elite is 20k/20k breatheable and waterproof, it is holding up well.

Equivalent now i think is:
https://www.berghaus.com/mens-chombu-waterproof-jacket/422271.html

edit:sold out.

I’ve decided the ME Shivling gets the nod unless an amazing deal on the Tupilak pops up

The Tupilak’s hood is great with a climbing helmet, not so good without as it’s huge and struggles to cinch down onto a bare head.

I assume the 40D Gore Tex Pro on the Shivling and the 75D Gore Tex on the Makalu are going to be comparable in use, maybe the former just a little more breathable?

The breathabilty should be pretty similar tbh, the membrane and backer fabrics are identical, the 75D just has a heavier, more durable face fabric.

I have the Firewall, I really like it. I have a mate who has one too, and he did the Spine Race (the winter one) in his in 2018, in the worst conditions seen for a long time, so he’d deffo vouch for it’s performance.

the membrane and backer fabrics are identical, the 75D just has a heavier, more durable face fabric

Interesting; so what’s the Pro bit of Pro then?

Interesting; so what’s the Pro bit of Pro then?

It’s the backer fabric mostly. I can’t remember all the gritty detail, but basically they use a really tough woven liner material that’s significantly more durable than the usual stuff. They’ve also improved the way the whole fabric sandwich – face / membrane / liner – are bonded together to improve breathability.

They’re also very prescriptive about what face fabrics can be used and are very hands-on when it comes to certificating factories and individual garments.

They arguably don’t do themselves any favours with some of their individual product branding, which keeps changing and gets a bit confusing at times, but if you spend any time with Gore people or at one of their plants / test centres, they’re satisfyingly obsessive about their fabrics.