I was driving to work this morning on the A1. Some guy just puts his indicator on as he is pulling out from behind a lorry. I barely had time to stop, I think he couldn’t have been doing more than 40mph. I sure he didn’t even check his mirrors. My CO called me in and said some loon had sent in a video. The the video clearly confirms my side of events but I still got b*******d and told to be more careful when dealing with the public.

The best thing is to indicate once the manoeuvre is nearly completed. That always rates highly with me.

lol!

Wouldn’t have happened if he’d been driving his own , more masculine, car

I had the same a couple of years back but I ended up hitting the other car..

Most people give so little of a toss about everyone else that they just do what the hell they want.

What did Health and Safety say?

What did Health and Safety say?

I’ve got to wear a hi viz vest so people can see me (ahem!) coming.

Well… if you speak to plod its not as simple a case that it’s ‘your’ lane and they’re moving into it so have to wait until it’s clear, or what’s the point of an indicator?

Everyones meant to be a grown up and if someone moves into your way going slower than you then you’re supposed to adjust your speed to allow them on their way – which admittedly isn’t the same as justing turning on the indicator as they’re moving over as so many do, but there you have it.

After all as the driver behind you have a much better view than them.

Its not the way most people drive these days, outside of London anyway ironically.

They indicate, wow….

I now drive into Manchester after my spine was broken by an idiot driver whilst on the bike, but it’s no fun driving – avoiding getting your car smacked into every 5 minutes.

Indicating and pulling out simultaneously seems to be SOP for all large van and HGV drivers, at least as far as I’ve been able to make out over the last two years and 100,000 miles or so.

You should have fired up the afterburners and gone over the top of them.

Whilst my thread was a tongue in cheek reply to the serious thread, I am finding that people think putting their indicator on means they have a right of way, which isn’t the case. Every one gets it wrong sometimes, you put your hand up to apologise.

This happened to me on the way home I pulled out of an on ramp in to the clear left hand lane. I then moved out in to the right hand lane. The road curves and I misjudged the speed of the approaching car in the right hand lane. I floored it, put my hand up and pulled in as soon as I had passed the car was overtaking. The lady driving accepted this as I had apologised  and made an effort to make good my mistake.

I think the problem is people who do not use their mirrors, indicate then pull out and have no concept of the knock on effects of their action when moving out at half the speed of overtaking drivers. You are right as adults we should adjust accordingly .

However its the attitude of this type of driver who pull out like this. ‘I’m alright so fuk you’!

They also  speed in 30 limits and turn left just after they have over taken a cyclist.

The driver that broke my spine thought indicating meant he could pull right across my lane coming the opposite way (i.e. across my path) – so did sh1tty GM Police – think I should have stopped – erm, no he hit the side of my bike

Liability has been agreed though, but the cop’s wouldn’t prosecute.

Most drivers don’t give a hoot about their driving. A woman in front of me tonight nearly took out two peds on two occasions as she was being impatient – she was still near my car many miles later.

fossy , your incident shows what can happen if you are not able to adjust for these idiots. It angers me that the police are condoning it by not taking it seriously. How are you recovering?

Driver aids and safety devices/perceived safety has a big impact. Today doing about 30mph I had a truck turn across me, que me try to turn and brake.

My car is too old to have ABS so what transpired was a really noisy slide/half spin, lots of on and off the brakes, messy/noisy but no impact and everybody on the road noticed. I have to be honest I thought some poo would come out.

It was damp and in a modern car I could have just jumped on the brakes and turned, it wouldn’t have been an issue so people lean on the driver aids.

Driver aids turn bad drivers into mediocre drivers. If you had only ever driven a car with driver aids and then had your older car for that day, I bet you would have crashed!

I’ve only just put it back on the road and just taxed it today. So I was a bit rusty and it hit home harder the difference from old to new.

what would have been an inconvenience in the modern and maybe the coffee beans turned into a big slidey mess and everyone surrounding looking at me like I’m an out of control idiot.

I’m not saying remove the safety devices, but the point is the easier you make something to do, then the more risks will be taken.

I was agreeing with you. Also adding that driving cars with safety aids lowers the skill set of the driving public.

Yeah cheers, bsims I was venting

Whilst I appreciate the fundamentals, it seems counter-intuitive to suggest that driver aids make the roads less safe.

Driver aids don’t make the roads less safe. They just allow more mistakes resulting in a shaking fist or one finger salute rather than an upside down car with the driver cut in half by the steel dashboard.

“ABS does no more than provide the driver with an additional safety device. It does not increase the grip of the tyres on the road, nor can it prevent skidding. In limited circumstances a vehicle can stop within a shorter distance than if the wheels were locked, but it does not reduce, and could increase, the stopping distance on a slippery surface. If you activate the antilock braking system, this suggest you are not driving within safe limits”

Roadcraft, The Police Driver’s Handbook.

.

None of these driver aids can make up for the laws of physics and/or slow/inappropriate reactions.

No but ABS allows hard braking and turning at the same time when about to be flattened by  40 tons of truck. That’s the whole point of ABS, as you so smugly pointed my reaction wasn’t perfect.

As I always drive at the correct distance behind the car in front this tends to happen to me every mile or so.

I had a car drive along side me when I was on my bike indicate and then move into the lane I was in.  ~she knew I was there are she had just half overtaken me.  When I remonstrated she said – ” I indicated” as if that meant she had right of way.  Was I supposed to brake hard to allow he infront?  I was level with the front door when she tried to drive into the lane I was in.

Numpty

When I did my driver training, it was police standard back then, ABS was a luxury on cars. So we were taught how to brake without going into a fall wheel skid. There’s alway been shit drivers it has nothing to do with people reallying on driving aids, those driving aids do help people get out of trouble if they find themselves in it. Anyone can make a mistake or be put in position by another driver where these driving aids will kick in if needed.

Also adding that driving cars with safety aids lowers the skill set of the driving public.

No.  The public’s skills have always been shit overall.  It just means that now people are less likely to lock up four wheels in panic braking and completely lose control.  As evidenced by the falling car death stats over the last 30 years despite VASTLY more traffic.

Driving aids make an individual vehicle safer, the stats will prove that, i am certain.

i’d be interested to know if there was any data on drivers of said vehicles lowering their standards to compensate though.

i, personally, am not a fan of the massive amount of driver aids fitted to some modern cars, as I feel they reduce the amount of attention required to operate the vehicle. For example you get in a modern top end merc/bmw/audi and you literally only have to steer and throttle/brake, the headlights/wipers/gearbox/handbrake are all automatic, you can hear virtually nothing from outside, your forward vision may be crystal, but side/quarter vision can be surprisingly poor, there will probably be a system to monitor the blind spot of course, so there’s little need to check your mirrors once moving. This is in addition to the umpteen electronic aids fitted, I won’t bother going into the various acronyms to describe them.

surely, human nature being what it is, if less attention is required to operate the controls, then less attention will be given.

i drive a coach, (with a high up driving position) i find it pretty easy to spot a driver who isn’t paying real attention to the road, i can spot them from a long way off, many other guys in my job say the same thing, and im pretty sure truckers (from an even higher vantage point) will say the same.

the answer? Im not sure, but in ontario, there is a ‘driving distracted’ law, if it’s obvious that you are distracted, you get a hefty fine on the spot, it doesn’t matter what caused the distraction, it’s the fact that your attention isn’t on the road that is the problem.

but that only works if there are actual police out on the roads.

Surely human abilities as they are the less things you need to concentrate on the more you can focus on what’s going on around you.

Round where I live it’s break then indicate.

A study of Munich taxi drivers where part of the fleet was fitted with ABS found no reduction in accidents. In fact the ABS cars had marginally more.  The crash rate was only reduced when they started charging drives for repairs.

People generally adjust their risk for any safety features. See cycle helmets.

https://www.fresheconomicthinking.com/2011/04/there-is-odd-coexistence-between-two.html?m=1

as irc says – cars with abs the drivers leave less braking space on busy motorways – risk compensation.  We all do it all the time

Pretty much every car has ABS now though so how can you tell TJ which ones don’t?

Drac, I understand that theory, but I’m not convinced it actually works.

Maybe its more like, ‘some drivers are twunts’

i will emphasise ‘some’

Most drivers are actually fine.

the answer? Im not sure, but in ontario, there is a ‘driving distracted’ law, if it’s obvious that you are distracted, you get a hefty fine on the spot, it doesn’t matter what caused the distraction, it’s the fact that your attention isn’t on the road that is the problem.

Difficult one when we have a continually increasing level of automation. As well as the automation and driver aids, there’s a lot to be said of the driver distractions present in modern cars. It’s not a very good mix.

as irc says – cars with abs the drivers leave less braking space on busy motorways – risk compensation.  We all do it all the time

Does the average driver even think about their ABS, or what it does? OK, maybe they don’t need to, and it’s just down to their experiences. I can’t say I’ve felt any safer with ABS than without though. In fact the times it has kicked in, I’ve found it really quite disconcerting.

Drac – it was research done on German autobhans 10+ years ago but risk compensation is a well proven phenomenon and applies in all walks of life including driving.  Its not concious.

<div>The intended effects of road-safety measures are sometimes offset by behavioural adaptation among road users. This phenomenon has been empirically demonstrated for several road safety measures, both on an individual behavioural level, and on an aggregated accident-risk level. This literature review presents the theoretical foundation and empirical applications of behavioural adaptation.</div>

<div>https://doclib.uhasselt.be/dspace/bitstream/1942/4002/1/behavioraladaptation.pdf</div&gt;

<div></div>

<div></div>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk_compensation

The Balance of Risk

Slightly serious reply, I experienced a new one a couple of days ago, traveling at 30mph thru a smalll hamlet on the way home car coming in the opposite direction waiting to turn right ( indicating), car in fron of me passes it , oncoming car then flashes her lights at me and starts to turn across infront of me! Haul anchors on and blast horn!! and manage to stop about 2′ from her car now in the diagonal halfway thru turn position. She (lady mid 50’s ish) gets out of car shouting at me saying she’d flashed to let me know she was coming!……..really…….are some people that deluded in cars now. I not to politely pointed out that just because she ‘flashed’ doesn’t give her the right of way!……..Wasn’t even a German car either……

Driver aids are there to support sensible drivers who are driving considerately and paying attention,  not cover for twunts. If the road was populated solely with this kind of driver they would make it safer by being a support device.

Since most people don’t actually know what they do and assume it will cover for their mistakes/ then being a twunt (delete as appropriate) they do not have the desired effect and I believe make the road less safe in the hot spots where these twunts are occurring.

ABS was designed to allow you to steer whilst baking so that you could avoid a crash because you were paying attention as opposed to not paying attention and be able to still stop (As said it will increase braking distance because the pads are not constantly in contact with the rotors).

Takes a very skilled driver to beat ABS stopping distances.  Very few of us could do it.

Yep, I’d agree. Regardless of conditions.

naturally you and I would manage it no problem tj eh😂😂