Patrol or Reign?

I’d buy that one from pygin, with the Guide Ultimates thrown in…. just had a look and found it online:

http://pedalsbikecare.co.uk/shop/2016-transition-patrol-carbon-frame-free-guide-ultimates/

I’ve been into Pedals to have a few bits done, and James is a really nice chap – well worth spending money with him if you can 🙂

Just looking at the numbers on a medium Patrol v my old medium Spitfire.

Reach is +2mm on the Patrol (large would be +25mm) and bb height is the same although sag will come into play there.

Was very happy size wise on the medium Spitty so looking at the numbers I’d be better off with a medium?

What size stem were you running on the Spitfire?

If it were a 50mm, you could run a 35mm on the large and only be gaining 10mm.

The only thing that I’d also look at it the ETT, as it is pretty short in the medium, as the seat tube is pretty steep. Probably be really good for you if you’re 5’9 with 32″ legs, and you’ll have a short body.

Argh it does look so nice in Carbon!

What size stem were you running on the Spitfire?

If it were a 50mm, you could run a 35mm on the large and only be gaining 10mm.

The only thing that I’d also look at it the ETT, as it is pretty short in the medium, as the seat tube is pretty steep. Probably be really good for you if you’re 5’9 with 32″ legs, and you’ll have a short body.

Sorry, but what would be good for me? The medium?

I ran a 50mm stem on the Spitty.

I’d love to help James but I think I’m going to have to go with the 17 blue and I have a full XT brake/groupset here!

…medium Spitty so looking at the numbers I’d be better off with a medium?

I’ve been fiddling around for a while optimising the fit/handling of my two bikes and saw that Lee McCormack (Mastering Mountain Bike Skills author and skills coach) has started offering a bike fit/setup consultation, so thought I’d try it.

http://www.llbmtb.com/ridelogic-bike-setup-system/

It’s a clever system and seems to have worked well for me – my Spitfire had always felt great in terms of fit but my Zero still wasn’t quite as ideal feeling. I’ve made some adjustments following his advice and it’s great. Definitely worth considering when bike shopping and making expensive frame size decisions!

Looks like people are sizing up?

http://forums.mtbr.com/transition-bikes/patrol-riders-whats-your-height-frame-size-1019008.html

http://forums.mtbr.com/transition-bikes/patrol-carbon-help-stuck-between-sizes-1010914.html

I’m 6’1″ on a large with a 50mm stem & 810mm bars for reference & I like a reasonably ‘big’ bike (from experience, this is about the limit of what works for me – have also tried bigger, and much bigger).

My wife is 5’9.5″ (apparently the half is important!) and she thinks my bike is hilariously large, she can’t actually ride it properly.

She is on a large Nomad for reference (438 reach, 585 TT Vs 457 & 613 on the Patrol).

If you did go big, I would expect you would be forced into running a very short stem to compensate. Personally, anything under 50mm for me brings some odd handling traits i’m not a fan of.

I would have thought a medium with a 50mm stem is about on the money, and that’s the same with both the Reign & Patrol, as they are so similar in size.

610 TT on the large Nomad – I knew it couldn’t be THAT short, went and looked it up. 585 is the medium.

Crap – read that wrong! 🙂

Hob Nob – Member
Crap – read that wrong!

Wouldn’t be all that surprising with SC, I guess. Bet the older Nomad was even shorter than that

Here’s my XL Patrol Carbon (excuse the back alley chic)

For reference i’m 6ft 2 and running a 35mm stem. Sag is at 35% and running 170mm cranks.

Had an aluminium Scout before and find this much more fun. I had worries that the Patrol wouldn’t climb very well and there would be loads of front wheel lift but somehow it manages to climb better than the Scout.

2 of my mates ride Reigns, so i wanted something different!

I’m 5’10” tried a medium and large around the block, felt too stretched on the large, went for the medium and happy with that choice. seat tube is very short though so had to swap out the 125 dropper for a 150 which is no bad thing in the long run (painful at the time of purchase though). Still playing with sag on it, going back and forward each ride to see what I like.

I’d just like to interject to point out that the reach on the medium Reign is 444mm and the Patrol is 432mm.

I rode my old medium Reign and swapped to my pal’s medium Smuggler (same reach) and his bike felt frighteningly short.

Just a personal anecdote based on my preferences obvs, but there was quite a difference and I’d be wary of buying without trying.

6 foot/34″ inseam/74″ span riding a large Patrol with a 35mm stem. Feels absolutely bang on.

Wouldn’t want to go shorter than a 50mm stem, looking again at my spitfire build I’m fairly certain I ran a 60mm stem. I’ve no chance of a demo unfortunately (unless Windwave can come good Monday)?

I’d just like to interject to point out that the reach on the medium Reign is 444mm and the Patrol is 432mm.

And if riding the Reign with 25% shock sag but the Patrol with 35% then you can knock another 5mm or so off the Patrol’s reach once on the bike.

But I’d caution against assuming that longer is better. Long enough is better than too short but a bit too long is harder to handle than a bit too short. Don’t forget how stack height, spacers and bar rise and sweep affect things, not just reach and stem length.

Forks were mentioned I run a Rockshox Yari, also using a 50mm stem as that’s what I had for the build. Can’t help size wise as at 5ft4 and not the longest legs it’s the small for me 🙂

How does reach change with sag???

I’m 5’10” tried a medium and large around the block, felt too stretched on the large, went for the medium and happy with that choice. seat tube is very short though so had to swap out the 125 dropper for a 150 which is no bad thing in the long run (painful at the time of purchase though). Still playing with sag on it, going back and forward each ride to see what I like.[/quote

What length of stem do you run and what’s your in seam if you don’t mind me asking?

It’s s valid point on the stack front, the Reign is super low on the front end.

A lot of people run a huge amount of spacers to get the front end up.

IIRC I was running 40mm of spacers and 25mm riser bars on a large just to get to what I was comfortable with.

I think all shows is you really need to try to ride some bikes. Otherwise it could be an expensive mistake.

Even that’s no science, as specs won’t be right etc. Good luck!

Reach is horizontal, BB to top centre of headtube, stack is vertical of the same. The diagonal distance stays constant but forward rotation (fork sag on a hardtail) decreases stack and increases reach, and backwards rotation (a full-sus running more shock than fork sag) does the reverse.

If two bikes have the same reach but one has lower stack then that one will end up shorter in reach once the bars are at the same riding height.

How does reach change with sag???

As the bike sags into its travel, the bars come closer to you. Hence, more sag = less reach.

Also, less stack may mean you run more spacers. More spacers brings the bar closer to you again, so less reach than what’s on paper.

I’d say the Reign is equivalent to the Patrol in reach figures, once you factor in the low stack height, which means more spacers.

Also, you’re a medium. Definitely. Unless you Yohan Barelli. The medium is a big medium anyway, and two years ago everyone in here would tell you to get the small. Now we’re all a bit more sensible that ‘flickabke’ bikes are stupid for anything but dirt jumping, so you want a medium.

Unless you only ever ride in a straight line downhill. Then get the XL. Totally.

Rode round the giant store in Liverpool the other day (feeling, and no doubt looking like a complete bellend) on a medium reign and that felt perfect. If the reign is comparable to the patrol I wouldn’t want to go any bigger.

Thanks for the lesson in reach/sag. There is quite a bit more to it when you look at all the numbers properly.

Oh and it will be used for everything.

Leftfield suggestion – get a secondhand Reign and see how you like it?

If you like it, go ahead and upgrade.

If you don’t get on with it, at least you’ll have a bike to ride while you try to get a go on a Patrol and shouldn’t lose much when you sell.

How do you find it on the ups around places like the Lakes? Do you ever find slop etc gathers around the bottom shock mount?

On the ups it is skill lungs and legs that are the limit, not the bike. It is no whippet but winching up to Helvellyn or some other pass it can scale serious inclines. I had an Enduro 29er before and can beat my best climbs in both time and how far I can get before I dab and have to push. I know this riding up stuff is not very enduro and all but I’veven been riding for 27 years.?.
It also fits nicely on the shoulder going up steep passes. This is last Saturday’s post Old Dungeon Ghyll pub stop someway up Rossett Ghyll.

Coming down is a hoot. Sty Head was a giggle fest and I didn’t dab on the last section!
Yes slop gathers in the shock well thing, but the lower link/shock bearings don’t seem any more prone to wear that the other bearings.

Going down Stakes Pass

Dull geometry notes. I am 6’2″ and it’s an XL and it is very large. I wonder if a wee large would be better, but hey ho!

Leftfield suggestion – get a secondhand Reign and see how you like it?

Ah… If only I didn’t have a carbon Reign with Fox x2 shock and Pike fork for sale, in amazeballs condition. In a medium.

No worries if you just wanna buy new, but sounds like I could help out.

I currently have a ’16 Carbon Patrol, size large and am 5’10. I like the feel of it when straight lining but I can feel the longer wheelbase in tighter turns. I considered a Medium with a longer stem but when I sat on one it felt cramped compared to the Large. Its a trade off between stability and manoeuvrability as has been mentioned before.

I agree that 5’9-5’11 riders really struggle to find the correct size. I would say we are in the majority in terms of average height yet have to struggle with bike sizing.

I have also ridden a Medium ’16 Reign 2 on the same tracks as my Patrol and whilst I enjoyed the extra manoeuvrability I didn’t like the lower Stack due to the shorter head tube. I also didn’t like the twitchy steering due to the fork offset but this may have helped it in the tight stuff?

I also tried a ’16 Nomad and a ’15 Capra.

As far as which bike to go for, I faced the same decision- Patrol v Reign. I owned a Cube Stereo 140 and was looking for something with more travel for the tracks where I ride. The Patrol won due to its reports of playfulness and pop. I believe the Reign to be more of an Enduro race bike whereas the Patrol is a more hardy trail bike. I have no plans to race (read win) an Enduro event and the Patrol has really improved my skills and confidence.

I’m five months now with the Patrol and it has been absolutely rock solid. Its a totally standard build but agree that it could do with a 150mm dropper rather than the 125mm standard. No frame defects to my knowledge.

rig111, I also noticed the fork offset in the reign as soon as I turned the bars it felt very twitchy even in a car park/shop. I’m really struggling between the medium and the large now.

I emailed Transition who said I’d probably be better on a medium. I imagine I would have a fair bit of seat post showing on a medium but that will mean I will be able to run a 150mm dropper. I’m going to see if there’s one I can go and at least have a sit on even if it means a decent round trip.

Tomaso, some great scenery there and the reign looks right at home.

My forks were faulty and first ride was underwhelming. Sent back to Rockshox and instead of RCs with the 46mm offset I got new RCT3 42m offset. I can’t therefore comment on the whole offset issue, other than my Reign isn’t an issue going up or down! But I am used to slack headed bikes wandering on steep climbs.
The only was you are going to truly answer this dilemma is by riding both bikes. As problems go it is a high quality problem which you won’t loose either way.

Hi Bluearsedfly, yep I contacted Transition too after I had sat on the Medium. They basically said the same as what they state on their website regarding personal preference and stem length via top tube/reach. I consider myself to have short legs 30″ so maybe this helps explain why I feel comfortable whereas someone with a shorter torso might like the Medium!!! A proper demo on both is the only way I’m afraid.

To give you an idea of how I feel about it- everytime I look at my bike I always think about how long it looks, but when I get on her and start riding, all my doubts go away. It feels perfect. Climbing is comfortable and descending is great except on the tight, twisty stuff. I don’t have the skill (yet) to flick the back end round whilst maintaining speed!! The position the bike puts me in when descending has allowed me to go off stuff I would never of dreamed of and it doesn’t mind a bit.

These bikes we are talking about are all expensive whichever you slice it and the most important thing is to invest in a bike that fits and inspires you. Try to look past the graphics or latest tech if you can.

If you can afford it then I say get the Carbon Patrol 🙂 I love mine and I really can’t see me selling her on any time soon.

Sorry, was wrong in my earlier post. My stem in my large is 40mm.

As problems go it is a high quality problem which you won’t loose either way.

First world problems! I’m just itching to order one but getting the right size is holding me back.

rig111, I’m a 32″ in seam so I guess I have a short body? I think I’d adapt to either bike but want to get it right.

Bit of a long shot but I don’t suppose there’s anyone around the Bolton/Manchester/south Lancs area with a Patrol I could at least sit on?

http://www.transitionbikes.com/PDF/GETDIALED_FrameGeo_Part1_ETTvsReach.pdf

Some interesting reading on ett v reach.

The more I look at it the more I’m swaying towards large. The ett of the large Patrol is 613 v 595 of my medium Spitfire and the reach of the large Patrol is 457 v 430 of the Spitfire.

I ran a 60mm stem on the Spitty, running a 40mm on the Patrol would put me somewhere near?

Hi again, if your 5’9″ with 32″ legs then my gut says go medium Patrol with the option of a 50mm ish stem if you feel you need it. All 5’9″-5’11” folk where not created equal!! I think i get away with it as I have a longer top than bottom. A 5′ 7″ friend of mine had a go on it and he definitely felt it to be too long.

I feel your pain in choosing a size. I stressed myself out too. Maybe you can luck out on a test ride. Good luck.

Ask on Rivi MTB FB page, I’m sure there’s a few Trannies on there – so to speak.

I am 5’9.5″ and I would be squashed on a medium patrol. I went for the large and run a 35mm stem, likely going to go for a 40/50mm stem soon.

I am in Macclesfield bluearsedfly if you wanted to try sitting on a patrol c in large.

Same a Rick draper

Accept the reign and patrol aren’t trail bikes, hence arent the best at slow/tight.

Get the right bike

It’s a tough one. I’m 6’2 and on a large but only because I thought the reach was too much on XL and moat of my riding is on tight trails. 90% of the time I’d say I choose correctly, the 10% I go flat out down a big hillside I wish my bike was a tad bigger.

It’s a tough one. 90% of the time I’d say I choose correctly

Isn’t that an easy one? If you bought the XL – 10% of the time you’d say you chose correctly, but 90% of the time you’d wish you bought the slightly smaller bike.