Stop being so bloody precious!

hoity toity :o)

My impression is that it's a triumph of marketing to get people to pay so much for a poorly specced camera. 3 frames per second and more shutter lag than an SLR indicates they're just not trying. My D300 will do 8 frames a sec with extra batteries, indicating the limitation is the power draw on the motors for shutter and mirror. It looks great and I want one, but I'd probably still carry my DSLR everywhere after I'd played with it for a few days.

My impression is that it's a triumph of marketing to get people to pay so much for a poorly specced camera.

My impression is that you're missing the point. Not everyone is happy to drag around a big heavy SLR and lens combo – obviously you are.

Sure there are compromises but calling the camera 'poorly specced' is a little silly.

My impression is that it's a triumph of marketing to get people to pay so much for a poorly specced camera. 3 frames per second and more shutter lag than an SLR indicates they're just not trying. My D300 will do 8 frames a sec with extra batteries, indicating the limitation is the power draw on the motors for shutter and mirror. It looks great and I want one, but I'd probably still carry my DSLR everywhere after I'd played with it for a few days.

£1000 for the D300 and another £230 to shoot at 8fps (excluding the batteries)for the MB-D10 grip. Yep, i'd have loved a D300, but when it gets to the stage that even having a shave is enough to set the pain off in my arms, holding up a D300+Grip+batteries+fast glass would have made life to unbearable.
If i wanted to shoot at high FPS with minimal shutter lag, i'd have changed the D80 for the D300. But due to circumstances beyond my control that upgrade was a no go so i went for the radical move of the GF1 and have loved it.
Plus the GF1 will shoot 720p till the cards full, unlike dSLR's movie modes that are limited to 5 mins, lest they fall foul of some stoopid EU rule about video recording devices.
Besides i dont know if i could trust my self riding a bike with umpteen hundred quids worth of dSLR + lens on my back.
Can see why you do, some of your pics are amazing.

unlike dSLR's movie modes that are limited to 5 mins

it's not what they're for!

Besides i dont know if i could trust my self riding a bike with umpteen hundred quids worth of dSLR + lens on my back.

I never give it a moment's thought. It's insured and if I break it they replace it.

But my point was, for that amount of money they could have delivered more, particularly as it's billed as a DSLR replacement

Not everyone is happy to drag around a big heavy SLR and lens combo – obviously you are.

"drag around" is exaggerating – I only notice the absence of weight when I don't have it for some reason.

Sure there are compromises

but why ? Given that the shutter will be lighter and no mirror, it should have been faster not slower

it's billed as a DSLR replacement

No. You've billed it as a DSLR replacement. Which is probably why you keep going on about how your DSLR (Nikon) runs circles around it. Hence, you've missed the point.

No. You've billed it as a DSLR replacement.

uh uh, that's what I've seen it described as! And lots on here have talked about it in those terms

But my point was, for that amount of money they could have delivered more, particularly as it's billed as a DSLR replacement

I think this is the problem, it shouldnt have been called/labeled a "dSLR replacement". Alternative yes, replacement no. Granted it's got interchangeable lens and a lots of modes/settings that put it in the dSLR bracket but then you have the compromises, ie shutter lag. While its not going to match a dSLR on speed, its still a darn sight faster than most other camera's of its ilk.
The G1/GH1 are more of a dSLR replacement, marketing should have changed tack with the GF1 and pushed it as the alternative choice.

Still im more than happy with it, got my interest back in taking pics and to me thats what counts.

And if i can get my act into gear and come along for a saturday Bogtrotters ride i can bring it along for you to play with.

Simon – I'm not going to bother arguing with you. You don't see the point, lots of other people do.

Simon cheaper DSLRs (my humble D40 for example) does not do 8fps nor do I care if it did really. Does that make it any less of a DSLR?

The GF1 does have shortcomings compared to a D300 and am sure there are things a D3 would do that the D300 won't that alone is not enough though to disqualify any of the above mentioned cameras from the category of a DSLR.

It is a new category of cameras that might or might not fullfil your needs if you dont think it does enough then obviously you vote with your wallet. I am still a bit hesitant regarding price/performance this is why I will wait. In any case I don't see it replacing my D40.

You don't see the point, lots of other people do.

What interests me is that it underachieves in performance while overachieving in price. I can see the appeal of a small camera that can deliver good results and support interchangeable lenses, but it looks to me to be a "not yet".

Arghhh I really shouldn't get drawn into this.

In what way can the GF1 not 'deliver good results'? Because it doesn't shoot 8 fps? So is any DSLR that can't do 8 fps not capable of delivering good results either?

I've seen plenty of amazing pics taken with the GF1. I bet the vast majority of your shots could have been taken with a GF1 too.

In what way can the GF1 not 'deliver good results'?

I never said that. I just don't think it's anywhere near worth the asking price, so I'll wait and maybe get one 2nd hand in another year 🙂

I bet the vast majority of your shots could have been taken with a GF1 too.

but not by me, my cameras get too dirty to be swapping lenses so I need a big zoom

simonfbarnes – Member
I can see the appeal of a small camera that can deliver good results and support interchangeable lenses, but it looks to me to be a "not yet".

[/b]

In what way can the GF1 not 'deliver good results'?

simonfbarnes – Member
I never said that.

Why I CBA with discussions with SFB

it looks to me to be a "not yet".

I should have put a full stop before this, I meant, a 'not yet' in terms of value for money, not quality of results, though the shutter lag might still be a killer.

Just interested as I would like to try and make a bikey video at some point, and I was wondering how well it would work with the 20mm lens as the autofocus seems to be a bit jumpy in video mode.

Grum – make sure you keep checking for firmware updates. The most recent one improved the autofucsing during video mode.

As for the debate about the GF1 being a DSLR replacement, I don't think that's where Panasonic have been pitching it, leaving that instead to the G1. It's been more that reviewers and users have found it has often replaced a DSLR for photo duties, me included.
Regarding value for money, then yes the GF1 is expensive, but then it is using new technology, which often results in a premium as the developers look to get back their investment. I don't think it's overpriced though.

Whilst I like my D90, what stops me buying a more expensive DSLR is the frustration that the more you spend, the bigger & heavier they become.

heihei – spot on.

It's marketed as DSLR quality. How people then interpret that in use is up to them.

but then it is using new technology

which bits ? It seems to me more like inspired niche exploitation 🙂

what stops me buying a more expensive DSLR is the frustration that the more you spend, the bigger & heavier they become.

YEAH! My Olympus OM2 is only slightly bigger than the GF1 (though more than twice the weight), but has a proper viewfinder and mirror, as well as a film transport. At first I thought the DSLRs were made heavy to make people think they were getting their money's worth, but now I'm convinced the manufacturers are constrained by the demands of the hardware, and would make them smaller if they could. I did try a D60 which was a little gem to hold, but its performance was far too sluggish 🙁

Leica M9………mmmmmmm

Leica M9………mmmmmmm

"The suggested retail price of the Leica M9, which shall become available in the next couple of days, is £4,850. "

you could buy 4 proper cameras for that much 🙂

oooh, temptation:
Panasonic announces Lumix DMC-GF1 in pink

For anyone interested, it seems that the GF-1 comes now with £50 cashback from Panasonic. so 570 with 20mm from mathers of lancashire…..

update: I've been into the camera shop to play with one, and I want one 🙂 Brilliant! However I shall have to wait for a 2nd hand one as I won't pay more than £300…

What's the benefit of the gf1 over the g1 then? Obviously it's smaller, it doesn't have a viewfinder?

it doesn't have a viewfinder?

it's mainly super cute 🙂 You can buy an EVF for a swingeing £189 which clips on top, but the rear screen is big and very bright and looks gorgeous!

What else is different then, can you change the lenses on both of them

What else is different then, can you change the lenses on both of them

well, I don't know enough about the G1 to comment. Yes you can change the lenses. Read about it here

sfb – you're no longer a Nikon whore? 😯

sfb – you're no longer a Nikon whore?

I'd like to believe my selection is entirely pragmatic – I happened on Nikon because they were the first with a credible entry level DSLR – however, the Lumix is an unashamed small object of desire 🙂

Well, it's only taken 144 posts – there is hope.

Oddly the new Olympus E-PL1 the cheaper PEN is retailing at more than the PEN over the web. I suspect once price settles the EPL1 should be in kit form for just over the £400 mark. Although, I think I'd want it with a pancake lens.

Incidently sfb – what is your preference – pancake or std zoom?

I caught a glimpse of a review in one of this month's magazines pitching the PEN against the GF1. The PEN came out better.

Incidently sfb – what is your preference – pancake or std zoom?

I'm not sure I could bear the restriction of a prime lens

simonfbarnes – Member

update: I've been into the camera shop to play with one, and I want one Brilliant! However I shall have to wait for a 2nd hand one as I won't pay more than £300…

And another one turns to the "New Darkside" 😈

And another one turns to the "New Darkside"

hardly, I haven't changed my opinion about it being overpriced, but it seems I'm far more prone to cute cameras than bikey bling 🙂

Using a prime lens is restrictive, but in some ways that can be a positive, making you think more about composition etc.

The continuation of this thread is …. USELESS WITHOUT PICTURES ….

I was enjoying all the sample GF1 shots 🙂

but in some ways that can be a positive, making you think more about composition etc.

I never think about those things 🙂

USELESS WITHOUT PICTURES ….

only a very naive person would think the photos would tell you anything about the camera

The continuation of this thread is …. USELESS WITHOUT PICTURES ….

I was enjoying all the sample GF1 shots

Here's my 365 – Photo a day

all taken with the GF1