You take your share of the debt or you get nothing else.

That’s not true I’m afraid. There are international laws that set precedents that would most likely apply which have been discussed earlier in the thread. The TL;DR is that fixed position assets would go to Scotland, moveable ones would stay with rUK unless they are for the benefit of the local population. Due to the complex arrangement of the UK and it’s division of assets both moveable and not, there would likely be trading of assets to secure something beneficial for both sides.

Practically, how would a currency union would work, and what would be the problems if independent Scotland were in the EU, and rUK were not?

It seems as if some people are actively willing rUK to come out of the EU, as if cheering on the failure of the England football team. It would be foolish to not consider how the EU will look if the rUK pull out.

I have always thought that a currency union is only guaranteed by virtue of being in the UK.
I would also not be happy to renege on a debt I was partially responsible for running up. If we vote for independence we need to stand up, start a fresh currency, and pay what we reasonably owe.

If the rUK is nothing more than a narrow minded, anti European, war mongering state, why is a currency union even being suggested. In reality plenty of die hard nationalist don’t care what currency we use, but know that suggesting we won’t use the pound will certainly lose the referendum.

…Looks at previous previous comment about middle england wish list and ignores fasternotfatter…

Even should Scotland refuse to take on a portion of the debt she helped to run up, it’s been pointed out that for the UK the takinon of that portion would STILL be a better risk than going into a Formal Currency Union with Scotland.
Our UK Party Leaders have repeatedly stated that Currency Union is a red line, & as we have a General Election in 2015 we can ensure the parties stick to that red line.

I also don’t believe that a) the tories will win the next election & b) the UK would vote for leaving the EU – contrary to some Scottish opinion many in the UK want to remain in the EU. I certainly do, i also want Scotland gone sooner rather than later. I am also a voter on the socialist side of the spectrum just to confuse you all further.

muddy, I agree with both a) and b) also.
You don’t hail from the South do you muddy? Funny if you did. Would not compute with Nationalists. Heads may explode. 🙂

Well, i’m South of Scotland!
Gtr Manchester area, so socialist thinking is pretty engrained in our consiousness 😉

I am also a voter on the socialist side of the spectrum just to confuse you all further.

A socialist who supports the EU with its indisputable neo-liberal agenda ?

Well yes that’s confusing……but who’s confused, me or you ? 🙂

And talking about small countries, just remember in about 3 or 4 years time you’re going to be the small country isolated on the edge of Europe with your UKIP govt, while Scotland will be a member of the EU. Don’t believe the scaremongering

Ironing, etc

My understanding is that the debt is issued by the UK’s national bank, which is called the Bank of England. So if we are not to get our share of that property, why should we assume our share of its debts?
You do get your share of the bank of England, a share of the gold reserves, a share of foreign currency reserves and you can continue to use the pound but without a currency union. I would not want to join the Euro and I don’t want a currency union with any other country including an independent Scotland. You can’t guarantee 100% that an independent Scotland wouldn’t need bailing out at some point in the future so the risk is just not worth it. The majority of people in the UK (excluding Scotland) do not want a currency union so please accept our wishes and move on to plan b. The hypocrisy of Salmond calling Westminster bullies when he is the one trying to force something on us is just amazing.

There are international laws that set precedents that would most likely apply which have been discussed earlier in the thread.
Really? Please provide links to back up your statement. I think it will more likely involve negotiation rather than a law dictating the division of assets. If there was a law we would not be arguing about a currency union would we?

Have they left yet?

http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobile-sign-in.cgi?r=%2Fmobile%2Fpolitics%2Freferendum-news%2Fconstitutional-lawyers-international-court-could-arbitrate-in-disputes-betw.1394027389 international court could arbitrate on division of assets.

Gordimhor your link does not work.

Arbitration is something that both sides have to agree to. If Scotland will not take on any debt the UK does not have to agree to arbitration. We can spin out separation for as long as we like and this will affect an independent Scotland more than than the UK. Much more preferable is a quick split with assets reasonably shared between both countries. Trying to force the UK into a currency union is not being reasonable. I appreciate Scotland has a share of the bank of England but some things, like a currency, are just not divisible. The SNP need to stop trying to force the UK into something it does not want and let people in Scotland know what plan b is.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobile/politics/referendum-news/constitutional-lawyers-international-court-could-arbitrate-in-disputes-betw.1394027389
better link to the same article.

fasternotfatter – Member
…Trying to force the UK into a currency union is not being reasonable…

So long as everything is shared fairly, I agree.

Our own separate currency is the best option IMO and I can only see a short term advantage in using the £UK.

After all, in the current UK we are accustomed to dealing with other countries in different currencies. It’s an adjustment, not a disaster.

Also with an independent currency Scotland is not exposed to England’s debt, and vice versa.

I think one thing that is missed by many is that the SNP is just part the independence movement, so SNP policies aren’t necessarily what we want. The £ issue is a good example. Not many really care about it, more about a fair share of the cake.

I think the whole issue has been stirred up as part of another issue which will become apparent. AS is cunning, and is not known for blundering – which is what this looks like.

There are substantial LibDem, Labour, and even Conservative groups supporting independence. At the moment we have no option but to vote SNP because the major parties are ignoring us.

Another point is that virtually all the media in the UK is owned by people with a vested interest in maintaining the status quo, so unusually for a major issue they are speaking with one voice, and that is doom for Scotland.

However with the internet there is access to international press which tends to be more objective because they don’t really care which way it goes, and that tells a different story to that pushed in the UK media.

We’ll sort everything out after independence and you’ll still be welcome to come and ride here…. 🙂

epicyclo – Member

Most of us would be quite happy not to share in it if it meant we came into independence debt free.

If you think you can go into independence debt free then I think you may have greatly underestimated how much independence will cost “your” country.

just remember in about 3 or 4 years time you’re going to be the small country isolated on the edge of Europe with your UKIP govt, while Scotland will be a member of the EU.

😆

Are you willing to take a wager on the above?

*Warning*
Accepting said wager will not enhance your chances of remaining debt free.
😆

All these posts and we’re still no closer to knowing it the independent scotland will come with a crown race.

sbob – Member
Are you willing to take a wager on the above?

How about 1 Scottish Poond 🙂

Agree, it’s really going to be a case of suck it and see. No doubts lots of mistakes being made in the early days.

But it’s still better than being ruled by the posh boys club.

Pretty sure it will have a crown race but it may well not be a tandem

But it’s still better than being ruled by the posh boys club.

But where does it end?
Hebridean crofters moaning about being ruled by the toffs in Glasgow?

I personally like things as they are, and am disappointed that there are so many bitter Scots out there.

Small countries do not bully big countries

Indeed big countries bully small ones hence they want to leave the union

No one likes a bully.

Gideon osbourne (that is his real name) is a rubber faced so and so

Vote yes

Well muzz has convinced me with his well argued point. If only I had a vote.

sbob – Member
“But it’s still better than being ruled by the posh boys club.”
But where does it end?
Hebridean crofters moaning about being ruled by the toffs in Glasgow?

Our parliament will be totally elected by proportional representation. There will be no unelected elite class to over ride it, so those Hebridean crofters you are so concerned about will have better access to their govt than they do at the moment.

Anyhow, toffs in Glasgow? 🙂

politicians not using their first name???

can’t see what’s wrong with “Gideon” anyway, apart from the association with a crap kids tv programme???

See You Jimmy! ^^^^^

big_n_daft – Member

politicians not using their first name???

You know it’s pretty common in Scotland to use a middle name? Especially if you’re name’s James Brown but you’re the least funky man that’s ever lived.

Still the Osbourne thing is pathetic, he chose to start going by George when he was 12, just because he didn’t like the name. A lot of people try to make mileage out of it- first “Oh he’s got a dead posh name” and then “Oh he changed it to try and seem less posh”. Lots of people have stupid names, I spoke to a man called Ragina Sexwale a while back.

Lots of people have stupid names, I spoke to a man called Ragina Sexwale a while back.

I don’t think you’re suppose to take people’s porn names seriously.

I used to work with a guy called Richard Head … he lived up to his name

ernie_lynch – Member

I don’t think you’re suppose to take people’s porn names seriously.

No, for real… Hang on, this is him!

https://www.facebook.com/ragina.sexwale

Well he’s made an entry in the Urban Dictionary.

😯

The director of the authority I work for is called Richard Stir…hurk,hurk,yuk,yuk…

Our parliament will be totally elected by proportional representation.

Are you sure about that?

You’re not alone though;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Additional_Member_System#Voter_understanding

I don’t think you’re suppose to take people’s porn names seriously.

POSTED 9 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST
I used to work with a girl called Della Horniblow.

irelanst – Member
Our parliament will be totally elected by proportional representation.
Are you sure about that?

You’re not alone though;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Additional_Member_System#Voter_understanding

Oh, I forgot, we’re too dumb to be trusted with democracy.

It’s not a perfect system, but it’s better than first past the post.

Still the Osbourne thing is pathetic, he chose to start going by George when he was 12, just because he didn’t like the name. A lot of people try to make mileage out of it- first “Oh he’s got a dead posh name” and then “Oh he changed it to try and seem less posh”.

THIS
He clearly still a **** and gives you lots of real avenues to attack him

It’s not a perfect system, but it’s better than first past the post.

That may be the case, but that’s not what you claimed initially and I would argue that a system where a significant proportion of the electorate doesn’t fully understand the voting system isn’t the best form of democracy. And it is essentially a first past the post system with the majority of MPs elected in exactly the same way as the UK parliament. It certainly isn’t a PR system.

Ahem, attack the man, not the ball 😉 Heard that before. Remember, there is more to currency union or not, than George Osbourne.

Remember, there is more to currency union or not, than George Osbourne.

Well yes there’s the Labour party and the Liberals too. When you look at what I believe is an unfair and ideologically driven austerity programme you ll find that both Mr Balls and Mr Alexander are supporting the Tories on that too.

Read McCrone instead of the BoD and you will see that we (potentially) would be adding wee eck to the list of austerity proponents, despite his current BS.

Gordi, in the list of people who are being treated unfairly do you add the financial prudent and the pensioners whose savings and investment are being robbed by financial repression?

AFAIK we have not been told by the SNP, how much not having a currency union will cost Scottish businesses, but they let us know the following day that it will cost English business £500m.

If this is George Osbourne’s fault why have they not put a monetary figure on it?