Osbourne says no to currency union.

Threats that Scotland will be ejected (even temporarily) from the EU are hollow, impossible to ever put into practice.

@aracer, it actually says that wow ! As many of us have posted Scotland isn’t a member of the EU so it doesn’t need to be ejected.

Anyone, on either side of the debate, claiming to know as a matter of certainty what would happen to an independent Scotland’s EU membership status is a liar.

This does have some truth, we don’t know for sure whether Scotland would be granted temporary membership post March 2016 or kept outside the EU until a fuller application for membership can be properly considered (5 years I recall a senior EU official said last week)

When we finally get a Free Yorkshire anyone using “paradigm” will have to have “I’m a reet berk” tattooed across there forehead.

We can argue over the minutae as much as we like

Except most of the yes supporters actually want to ignore all that and hope it all works out.

We can argue over the minutae as much as we like, but it comes down to Scots want independence, and Scots are capable of running their own country.

After independence, we will be eternally grateful to the UK Establishment for their co-ordinated campaign of lies, threats, and sneers, because that has made many otherwise passive Scots abandon their traditional party vote, and get out on the streets and involve themselves in the Yes campaign.

@epic
51/49 (best poll favouring Yes) hardly justifies saying “Scots want independence”

If there is a Yes vote Scotland is going to face the very harsh reality that the Yes campaign have misrepresented the future on a massive scale, possibly the largest ever “Big Lie”

it actually says that wow

I think that says a lot either about the level of understanding, or the level of deception of whoever wrote that. But I didn’t really expect anything better from WOS.

aracer – Member
“We can argue over the minutae as much as we like”
Except most of the yes supporters actually want to ignore all that and hope it all works out.

Just like voters in every general election hope it’s going to work out.

Or are you saying we are incompetent to govern ourselves?

jambalaya – Member

@epic
51/49 (best poll favouring Yes) hardly justifies saying “Scots want independence”

And if that was the result in a general election, what would you call it?

research has shown that the more false information people have the more likely they are to vote Yes.

Nice edit, unfortunately the research shows differently:

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/scottish-independence-more-informed-favour-yes-1-3534372

I was sent this. Interesting perspective.[/url]

So the Times runs a survey (how many people were surveyed?) and then runs a massive ‘oh no headline its going to be a yes’. Take that with a pinch of salt.

That’s pretty much what opinion polls are. Just over a 1,000 people were polled by YouGov, and because it is run by YouGov, it’s taken as a mainstream poll. It could be accurate, it may not be. The point is it is the first mainstream poll to put Yes ahead of No.

If you want to criticise YouGov, perhaps look at their website and find some contact details. I’m sure your detailed insights into this process will be useful to them.

hora – Member
So the Times runs a survey (how many people were surveyed?) and then runs a massive ‘oh no headline its going to be a yes’. Take that with a pinch of salt.

Have a read of this[/url]

We have been saying for some time that the polls don’t seem to reflect what we are seeing and hearing on the ground.

(But it may be different further south in Scotland)

aracer – Member

We can argue over the minutae as much as we like

Except most of the yes supporters actually want to ignore all that and hope it all works out.

Increasingly it is the no campaign that is hoping it will all work out. I suppose we can expect to see the suggestion that a clear majority in favour isn’t realy a mandate to break up the UK,as touched on above. Despite the way the general election has given us the current coalition.

In all seriousness, Panelbase closed its panel for independence vote some time ago, I don’t believe Yougov did!

There has been some discussion on Twitter of an organised signup of Yes campaigners,
hoping to influence Panelbase polls. Not all of the quoted posts actually relate to political
polls, but the point is still one to consider. In fact new joiners have had no significant
effect on our results but we do recognise the potential for abuse of the system if people
on either side were able to coordinate a mass sign up of new members. As a precaution,
between now and the referendum we will not be including results from panel members
who joined more recently than June 2013. This only applies to political polls. We may
still invite people to take part for our own internal analysis, but their data will not be
used in the published results. We are also considering other measures to ensure that
sample sources have no undue effect on results.

http://www.panelbase.com/media/polls/PanelbaseCommentsOnScottishPolls.pdf

Increasingly it is the no campaign that is hoping it will all work out.

Completely missing the point – we are talking about what happens in the event of a yes vote here? A lot of people on the no side are quite sure it won’t all work out in the way most of the yes supporters seem to be hoping.

The point remains, there is a shift in momentum. If that is the best “NO” can do this close to the election (good to see the parties still falling out and blaming each other for the current implosion)Then good luck with the post split carve up. All of a sudden Scotland is offered three different sets of laws by three different parties. Different perspective to THM,but a buggers mess right enough.
As an aside; I assume that since 51% isn’t a clear mandate for, then neither is it a clear mandate against if the boot is on the other foot.

A lot of people on the no side are quite sure it won’t all work out in the way most of the yes supporters seem to be hoping.

This doesn’t come as a big surprise after 10334 posts 🙂

Then good luck with the post split carve up.

I’m sure we won’t need that, not when the GE will have robustness in the independence negotiations as a key policy feature and they’ll all be outdoing each other at how tough they can be.

Just spoke to my Scottish colleague, he says his friends and family North of the border say if you are a No voter you keep quiet as otherwise the intimidation is significant. He also said the divisions between the two camps are very deep, whatever the result these are not going to heal quickly.

What will be interesting is watching Osborne desperately row back from the “no currency union” thing.

Funny…on Sunday morning he said ‘no ifs, no buts, NO CURRENCY UNION!’

Sticking with my 60% ‘no’ prediction, as the ‘no voters’ are keeping their heads down. Seems to me, only the ‘yes’ campaigners are the vocal ones with a lot of agitators involved that the ‘no’ voters want to avoid having anything to do with. Can’t say I blame them seeing some of the tactics involved.

Edit: oh just seen above post saying much the same!

And if that was the result in a general election, what would you call it?

@eipic but a general election is for a max 5 years, this is a permanent and seismic change.

Just spoke to my Scottish colleague, he says his friends and family North of the border say if you are a No voter you keep quiet as otherwise the intimidation is significant. He also said the divisions between the two camps are very deep, whatever the result these are not going to heal quickly.

Anecdotes aren’t data. Survation did a survey and found that 8% of No voters had had abuse, for Yes voters the figure is 21%. You only need to look at the @BritNatAbuseBot feed to get an idea of the constant stream of it. No are getting increasingly desperate, and a good strategy when you’re desperate is to try to goad the other side, to portray the other side as bullying. A compliant media helps a lot with that – just look how much coverage the egg incident got.

In reality, there aren’t massive rifts. I know a bunch of No voters, there’s no animosity, we happily kid each other about it.

Funny…on Sunday morning he said ‘no ifs, no buts, NO CURRENCY UNION!’

And the pound immediately tanked. Clever move, George 😉

Just spoke to my Scottish colleague, he says his friends and family North of the border say if you are a No voter you keep quiet as otherwise the intimidation is significant. He also said the divisions between the two camps are very deep, whatever the result these are not going to heal quickly.

Where I work I think I’m the only Yes voter and there’s constant ridicule as well as reasonable debate. None of it can be taken seriously (Salmond being out Scottish dictator type stuff) but it does get tiresome. There’s a lot of condescension as well.

What will be interesting is watching Osborne desperately row back from the “no currency union” thing.

One less thing to be interested in then…

And the pound immediately tanked. Clever move, George

So it didn’t tank as a result of the latest poll then?

I have had absolutely no abuse face to face whether talking to friends or workmates who are no voters or whilst out canmpaigning for Yes. Online / phone canvassing theres been some but very little. There are bampots on both sides.

There’s a lot of condescension as well

And of course we never get that on here 😀

Many other countries manage to balance bisiness and society much better, we can try to copy them.

Like where, specifically?
And how will iScotland change the power dynamic?

I notice that Ben has totally failed to answer either of these questions. I hope that Salmond has a better answer than “lol idk like Northern Europe?”.

You’ll notice it when you grow up, ben.

Just spoke to my Scottish colleague, he says his friends and family North of the border say if you are a No voter you keep quiet as otherwise the intimidation is significant.

Based on my first hand experience of actually being north of the border, I would say that is absolute drivel.

I have had absolutely no abuse face to face whether talking to friends or workmates who are no voters or whilst out canmpaigning for Yes

No one is suggesting you would, seeing as the ‘No’ voters aren’t interested in engaging the ‘yes’ campaigners.

jambalaya – Member

And if that was the result in a general election, what would you call it?

@eipic but a general election is for a max 5 years, this is a permanent and seismic change

I was going to point out that rUK agreed to the election and the Scottish population voted in a party with just this aim..but it doesn’t matter as you are on the sidelines sniping and making up stories sharing anecdotes about those poor no voters,that seem to go against facts. Actually was it you or Zulu who suggested annexing faslane in the event of a yes vote?

I notice that Ben has totally failed to answer either of these questions

Okay, ideas off the top of my head – and bear in mind there are no quick fixes, it’ll need a lot of work over a long period – but some things to look at:

Proper, good, state-subsidised childcare.
Equality of maternity/paternity leave so women don’t lose out when having a baby.
Better use of the rates system to help smaller and family-owned businesses.
Get serious about tax evasion, with a simpler tax system.
Maintain free education, expand apprenticeships and college training courses.
Try to rebalance the economy away from financial services and towards manufacturing.

PSA debating it on Jeremy Vine R2 currently

PSA debating it on Jeremy Vine R2 currently

Ah, another step towards the heat death of the Universe.

Would Jeremy vote yes or no? 😆

I can’t bear to listen, but has someone said “Jocks” yet?

I have had absolutely no abuse face to face whether talking to friends or workmates who are no voters or whilst out canmpaigning for Yes. Online / phone canvassing theres been some but very little. There are bampots on both sides.

There are also sensitive wee souls who want to claim abuse to gain sympathy against those nasty “yes” voters because they can’t answer questions like
“where dd all the oil money go?”
“why did we get the poll tax first?”
“do you think the bedroom tax is a good idea?”
“do you honestly believe we won’t get coronation st if we go independent?”
“Gordon Brown, eh? Well he’s a reliable kinda guy, remember when he outlawed boom and bust? What happened there then?”
“Alistair Darling – anti devolution wasn’t he? Still I guess you can change your mind, like the way he dropped his anti-Murdoch campaign when he found out that Blair was trying charm Murdoch into supporting him, or the way as chancellor he was going to help the pensioners out of poverty and upped the state pension by 75p, or his opposition to the independence of the Bank of England, or…”

Anecdotes aren’t data. Survation did a survey and found that 8% of No voters had had abuse, for Yes voters the figure is 21%. You only need to look at the @BritNatAbuseBot feed to get an idea of the constant stream of it. No are getting increasingly desperate, and a good strategy when you’re desperate is to try to goad the other side, to portray the other side as bullying. A compliant media helps a lot with that – just look how much coverage the egg incident got.

Just to add to this topic. And this is purely anecdotal.

The intimidation of no voters I know. It’s not the “vote yes or i’ll smash yer pus”. It’s the overbearing sense of moral high ground they perceive to eminate from someYes campaigners/voters.

The sense that they are viewed as bad people for beleiving a different path is better. That coupled in with the ‘how could you not want your nation to be free’ is where the intimidation sits.

It’s not “Vote yes or I’ll smash yer pus” it’s “vote yes or be ashamed of yourself”

This is from a very, very small number of people. Unsuprisingly, most no voters I know don’t talk about the referendum full stop unless pushed.

I suppose that’s because No is really the default position – most no voters are probably soft No…

I don’t have the numbers, you’ll need ScotRoutes for that.

But the Etape Caledonia route yesterday was about 80-85% Yes and 15-20% No for stickers and Placards. At a guess.

Award for best vehicle goes to that Now Blue Green Goddess that’s doing the rounds.

Biggest Flag/Placard award goes to a Union Jack in someones from yard.

You’ll need to consult Scotroutes again for best slogan.