Osbourne says no to currency union.

Meanwhile, I predict carnage in Edinburgh when the Orange Order marchers get their knuckles stuck in the tram tracks.

A question I’ve been wondering recently. Should we end up independent, would a mortgage on a Scottish property held by a company based in England have its interest rate determined by rUK interest or by Scottish interest rates?

You can’t answer that now. We don’t even know what currency Scotland will use. You couldd end up with an asset, your home, in one currency and a loan In another. If you keep the loan then it’s rate would be set by the UK bank in relation to UK rates. If Scotland creates a shadow currency (or euro) you would probably be best served getting a local Scottish mortgage. Another point if interest is that UK banks would probably view mortgages on properties in a different country as unattractive and would be less likely to grant them in the future and would probably try and sell the loans to a local bank

Either way the vote goes, the polls show Scotland is clearly a divided country. If they stay in UK then the Nationalists will continue to campaign for independence, leading to continued uncertainty.

If they leave I would imagine the Unionists will be doing their very best to expose the lack of evidence for Salmond’s claims of increased wealth, which at it’s most extreme might lead to a reversal.

Back in the land of stark reality however, investors both large and small are already pulling money out of Scotland in the face of the uncertainty which will have an immediate impact at a time when our ‘recovery’ is very tentative + over the longer term independence could directly lead to Scotland become poorer as it becomes less attractive to outside investors…

Either way, it’s not what the UK needs at a time of such economic delicacy… we need some certainty and reason to be confident about the future… Salmond is making it worse for the whole of the UK, and very few of us voted for him or can vote him out…

Either way, it’s not what the UK needs at a time of such economic delicacy… we need some certainty and reason to be confident about the future… Salmond is making it worse for the whole of the UK, and very few of us voted for him or can vote him out…

Well said.

kjcc25 – Member 

Either way, it’s not what the UK needs at a time of such economic delicacy… we need some certainty and reason to be confident about the future… Salmond is making it worse for the whole of the UK, and very few of us voted for him or can vote him out…
Well said.

POSTED 3 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

Aka know your place proles…

bencooper – Member
Meanwhile, I predict carnage in Edinburgh when the Orange Order marchers get their knuckles stuck in the tram tracks.

😆

The imagery of that made me laugh out loud and choke on my coffee – you owe me a keyboard.

Just a bit of anecdotal info. I was out for a ride today with the Veteran Cycle Club. I figured there would be a pretty even split, but there was only 1 Don’t Know out of 6 and no Nos.

Also just about every lamp post is festooned with YES posters whereas the NOs only appear every few hundred yards. That suggests more grass roots activity from YES – although I have heard the nobs who run the “grass roots” NO campaigns don’t actually put up their posters, they have a contractor (no idea if that’s true).

There’s lots of house with YES signs in their windows and in the entire ride I only saw 1 NO on a private house.

At the cafe stop and around town, Yes badges were very prominent, didn’t see any No .

If there actually is a silent NO majority, they should get out there and push their case, and remember the words of the bard

Wee, sleekit, cowran, tim’rous beastie,
O, what a panic’s in thy breastie!
Thou need na start awa sae hasty,
Wi’ bickering brattle!

(I’m in the Highlands.)

Edit:

I asked what people thought of the economic side of things. Some believe the SNP, others are working on the principle that so many outright lies and scare stories have come from Project Fear that they simply don’t believe a word that they say.

Nice to see that Ben thinks taking the piss out of other peoples religious beliefs is still fair game in NuScotland…

and you still don’t know what currency you will be using in an iScotland…. 😳

Nice to see that Ben thinks taking the piss out of other peoples religious beliefs is still fair game in NuScotland…

Where did he do that?

Nice to see that Ben thinks taking the piss out of other peoples religious beliefs is still fair game in NuScotland…

Nope, just the Orange Order. But don’t let the facts get in the way of your whinge.

Nice to see that Ben thinks taking the piss out of other peoples religious beliefs is still fair game in NuScotland…

I think it’s always fair to take the piss out of other people’s beliefs, religious or not. However, in this case, I was taking the piss out of a bunch of moronic bigots who use religion as a foil for their stupidity. I wasn’t taking the piss out of their religious beliefs – I doubt most of them can even name their religious beliefs beyond “F*** The Pope”.

and you still don’t know what currency you will be using in an iScotland….

Nope. Don’t care either. We’ll get independence then sort things like that out later. What will be interesting is watching Osborne desperately row back from the “no currency union” thing.

This is pretty:

What will be interesting is watching OsborneSalmond desperately row back from the “no currency union” thing.

FTFY

brooess – Member

Salmond is making it worse for the whole of the UK, and very few of us voted for him or can vote him out…

You think Salmond singlehandedly created this situation? Give over. The success of the independence campaign is entirely due to the general dissatisfaction of Scottish people with the UK, the SNP don’t create that, they just thrive on it. That didn’t come about overnight, the fingers of blame can be pointed more places than I can count, over generations.

And that did come from westminster government after westminster government- you might not have had the chance to vote SNP but you did have the chance to vote for the people who created today’s knife edge.

When would be a good time pleasethankyouverymuch?

Also just about every lamp post is festooned with YES posters whereas the NOs only appear every few hundred yards

Yup, we were over East Kilbride way, came back through the city – Yes boards on almost every lamppost on the main roads, very few No Thanks ones mostly in the posher areas. Saw a few Yes taxis too – covered in stickers.

This is the fundamental difference between the campaigns. Those taxi drivers did that off their own bat. The Yes boards were probably put up by some people with ladders who organised themselves. And of course all the Yes windows are self-organised.

Whereas the No campaign is very top-down. Famous politicians at the top, a professional ad agency hired to produce all the marketing material, all the adverts focus-grouped to death, so they get bland nonsense phrases like “I love my kids, I’m voting No Thanks”. They can’t react quickly, so the new posters just going up say “Protect your pound, your pay, your pension”, a week after Darling said that of course we could use the pound. Oh, and the pension thing is bollocks too. But that poster was probably commissioned months ago, so they have to run with it.

Well when you consider that Osborne was encouraging people to not vote no on the Andre Marr show this morning, you can pretty much discount everything he says.

Also, I went back to my home town today and was talking to a few people on the subject of the referendum. They all told me that they were voting No because they didn’t know enough about it. That seems to me a ludicrous reason for voting No. When I pointed out their flawed reasoning they decided that they would not vote.

I just wonder how many other people are voting No because they don’t know enough about it as opposed to making an educated choice.

When would be a good time pleasethankyouverymuch?

At least when both Scotland and restofUK have reasonably strong economic foundations with manageable levels of debt and a positive economic outlook (and don’t forget our ageing populations, which reduce the size of the economically active population)…

Honestly, whether you’re Scottish, English, Welsh, Northern Irish, for or against Scottish independence, this is possibly the worst time in a generation to do something which creates so much uncertainty about the future (on which investment and spending depend – both our own and foreign investment). Money is already beginning to leave Scotland because people aren’t sure what their money’ll be worth in a couple of year’s time…

Looking at the different comments on bbc, Guardian on here, people are quite emotional about it. It’s incredibly divisive because of the uncertainty it’s driving at a time when we’re desperate for some stability and confidence – pitching Scot against Scot and Scotland against England (in particular)…

At least when both Scotland and restofUK have reasonably strong economic foundations with manageable levels of debt and a positive economic outlook (let alone ageing populations which reduces the size of the economically active population)…[/quote]Which will be when? Or did we miss some brief moment in time when all the stars aligned?

Just think how much “uncertainty” will be removed when Osborne agrees to a currency union – for the sake of the rUK of course…

brooess – Member
…Looking at the different comments on bbc, Guardian on here, people are quite emotional about it. It’s incredibly divisive because of the uncertainty it’s driving at a time when we’re desperate for some stability and confidence – pitching Scot against Scot and Scotland against England (in particular)…

BBC, Guardian, neither present an unbiased picture.

I really haven’t seen any of this emotion they’re all talking about. Certainly no worse than a normal political campaign.

Any discussions I have seen or been involved in have been good-natured. Any nastiness is from the very few bampots on each side – although strangely the real violence seems to have been perpetrated by the No side.

We are expecting it to be the last card they have left to play – inciting some violence just before the poll in the hope of turning people of voting Yes. Word is out to turn the other cheek.

Why else are they importing “thousands” of Orange Order marchers from NI for a march through Edinburgh just before the election. The NI hard men, expert at provoking violence, and they’re not coming here to hand out flowers in a peaceful demonstration.

Don’t believe the propaganda, it’s truly dire.

A timetable for new powers for Scotland would not break referendum purdah period rules, says the UK government.

The UK and Scottish governments are prohibited from publishing anything which argues “for or against a particular outcome” during purdah.

On Sunday, UK Chancellor George Osborne said voters in Scotland will be offered a plan for more powers.

However, the UK government claims the offer would come from the pro-Union parties, not the government itself.That’s a shit load of pin-head dancing going on….

BBC, Guardian, neither present an unbiased picture.

I really haven’t seen any of this emotion they’re all talking about. Certainly no worse than a normal political campaign.

Any discussions I have seen or been involved in have been good-natured. Any nastiness is from the very few bampots on each side – although strangely the real violence seems to have been perpetrated by the No side.

I’m not talking about the editorial, I’m talking about the comments from the likes of you and me underneath the editorial – it can’t show bias other than it’s comments from self-selecting individuals…

And I never said anyone was being nasty – just emotional ie: people are quite scared about what it means or triumphant, depending on which way they want the vote to go, which is just divisive – emotion (fear, anger, resentment) tends to drive people to entrenched extremes and conflict rather than pragmatism.

It also appears that a major decision which will affect every one of 60m people in the UK is being based on emotion and idealism rather than reliable forecasts of economic growth, foreign investment levels, employment etc. I grant you that’s not a lot different from your average general election but it’s not ideal to make such a major decision on so few facts IMO…

Travelled up to Ayr from England for the airshow [Lancasters didn’t turn up!!]. Stayed in DandG overnight. Went via A76, and from postings on here was expecting YES/NO bunting and posters everywhere – was disappointed – there was a YES gazebo in Thornhill and Ayr, and a bloke giving Labour NO leaflets out of a sack in Ayr. I saw a few YES posters in windows, but no NO posters and a few small YES stickers on lamposts. I saw one YES and one NO large placard in different roadside fields the whole journey.
At the airshow there was one YES and two NO stalls [one Labour No].
The YES’s were more active mingling with the crowds and looked more professional in YES tabards.
We walked past the YES and NO points in Ayr town centre and were not engaged or given anything – we must look obviously English 🙂

At the airshow a YES person asked my wife how she was voting – he must have ignored me and homed in on her as she is a redhead 🙂
He just grunted when she said she didn’t have a vote, but hoped Scotland would choose to stay in UK.

As I say I was disappointed as I expected it to be more high key, with people on soap boxes, etc 🙂

I thought the commentary at the air show was at times a subliminally pro UK when the military aircraft were flying. Lots of the use of ‘British’ – especially the commentary for the Vulcan and how it’s deterrent kept the Britain safe – some people would use the same words as a defence for Trident.

It’s mentioned on here how poor the NO campaign has been, they certainly look amateur from what I’ve seen in the media down in England, but has any of the Scottish contingent on here had their mind changed by a leaflet, advert or campaigner?

PS:
There is a guitar shop in Ayr called exactly what you’d want it to be called, and an Indian restaurant called ‘Ayr India’ 😀

Life is uncertain. How many people (apart from a very few smug economists) saw the 2008 economic meltdown coming? We have lots of data about the past performance of the Scottish economy, data which everyone on both sides agrees shows that Scotland can be a successful country.

This isn’t an economic argument, and the No campaign’s failure to turn it into one is one big reason their numbers keep falling.

They all told me that they were voting No because they didn’t know enough about it. That seems to me a ludicrous reason for voting No.

However voting yes, whilst hoping it will all come out OK in the negotiations outcome is fine?

If I were in Scotland, I would vote YES for sure. Whatever happens has got to be better than the blind alley that the UK has been led down for the last 35 years. I’d vote to leave the ship before it sinks.
I hope the Scots then throw their considerable intellectual muscle into Europe and strengthen the anti-anglosphere coalition there.

Bus in some trouble

aracer – Member
However voting yes, whilst hoping it will all come out OK in the negotiations outcome is fine?

The consequences of voting No are looking pretty bleak.

Coalition of Conservative/UKIP govt in near future. Lead by Boris and Farage, both of whom are keen to strip funding from Scotland.

Out of the EU.

More wars.

More disadvantaged and needy dying of starvation.

etc

If we stay in the Union we have no control over that happening. Better to be in control of our own destiny even if it’s tougher than it should have been.

I just wonder how many other people are voting No because they don’t know enough about it as opposed to making an educated choice.

On the flip-side, and going by the Ctrl+C/Ctrl+V cybernats on facebook, there seem to be a lot of Yes voters with little knowledge of the facts as well.

I’m voting from a purely selfish point of view. I have a very real fear that a Yes vote will result in me and my immediate family being much worse off due to unfavourable interest rates and the toll they’ll take on mortgage payments.

I await a flaming for having the temerity to take out a mortgage (two actually, although that’s a different yet somewhat related story) and thus being part and parcel of our debt-beholden society, but there you go. Study hard, work hard, pay your taxes, do well for yourself, buy a house. That’s pretty much the opportunity we’re after in a fairer independent Scotland, isn’t it?

Coalition of Conservative/UKIP govt in near future. Lead by Boris and Farage, both of whom are keen to strip funding from Scotland.

Out of the EU.

More wars.

More disadvantaged and needy dying of starvation.

etc
That’s an awfully precise crystal ball you have there. Care to enlighten us on exactly how it’ll be with a Yes vote? I’m particularly keen to know how the markets will react to the “it’s not our debt” stance, and what that will do to Scotland’s cost of borrowing. You know, the borrowing needed to patch up the £15 billion+ hole in Scotland’s budget given that all the oil money is going to be used to create a sovereign wealth fund instead of paying for public services.

The consequences of voting No are looking pretty bleak.

Coalition of Conservative/UKIP govt in near future.

Aren’t the current Conservative policies just as irrelevant as we’re told the current SNP policies are? Or does hoping for something better only apply in one case (I mean surely Labour have to choose a better leader next time, don’t they?)

More disadvantaged and needy dying of starvation.

I have some disadvantaged friends that I consider countrymen and women in Surrey. I am still unsure how voting Yes helps them?

The Orange Order are idiots but remember they are no greater in number than those with equally bigoted views that will vote Yes. Religious bigots are still our countrymen and women. They are not likely to leave whatever the result, and they can’t be kicked out whatever the result. Sensible people will have to find a way to reconcile this and find a sensible solution to end religious bigotry whatever the result.

The Flying Ox – Member
That’s an awfully precise crystal ball you have there. Care to enlighten us on exactly how it’ll be with a Yes vote?…

Hopefully not a crystal ball. We’re being asked to be precise with the possible uncertainties of a Yes vote, I’m simply pointing out possible scenarios of a No vote (and I fervently hope I’m wrong on that).

I will make a prediction though. The UK economy will go down the gurgler again soon. The debt levels are through the roof which makes the country very vulnerable to the slightest financial sneeze. There will be high interest rates. If you have a mortgage, it would be wise to be conservative.

Come back and say nyah nyah nyah in a year’s time if I’m wrong. 🙂

You may be better sticking with an independent Scotland.

Going to laugh my bollocks off watching Scotland leave, followed by us leaving the EU. We’re going to be the laughing stock of the world. We’re going to be a smaller country, with an even smaller military, who’s economy is going to tank when London becomes unattractive to the financial industry. It’s going to be fun watching the little Englanders boil over as we become resigned to complete mediocrity on their watch.

Well done Cameron, this will be a brilliantly fitting end to your career! It’s going to be an interesting decade watching the condems/ukip **** the country up even more than Labour did.

I just wonder how many other people are voting No because they don’t know enough about it as opposed to making an educated choice.

Yes right!!! There is only one set of augments that requires education to be left on the shelf.

A few interesting articles in tomorrow’s FT including various BT option including a Quebec style love bomb – reminds me of parent who think love is giving a spoilt child all the chocolate that being demanded. That not love that’s just crap parenting. The yS candy floss-enduced sickness will be particularly virulent. Shame that so many look like being caught in the splashes.

athgray – Member
I have some disadvantaged friends that I consider countrymen and women in Surrey. I am still unsure how voting Yes helps them?

The Orange Order are idiots but remember they are no greater in number than those with equally bigoted views that will vote Yes. Religious bigots are still our countrymen and women…

Charity begins at home. Once we have sorted out our problems we can send aid to England if you like.

I have no objection to the local Orange Order. They are voters too. I may not like them, but they are part of the process. This is democracy.

Bringing in the storm troops from NI is intended to be inflammatory, and that is a different thing. They are hoping to provoke the violence that they had expected to see by now.

Tom_W1987 – Member
…It’s going to be fun watching the little Englanders boil over as we become resigned to complete mediocrity on their watch.

On the contrary, I wish them well. I’m hoping they will have a democratic revolution too and start working from their real position in the world instead of the delusion of imperial greatness.*

Just stopping spending money projecting military power overseas may enable them to feed their poor and hungry.

*This was pointed out by one of the great English Tory intellects (Enoch Powell) after the Suez crisis.