Osbourne says no to currency union.

another untruth ducks as you are now proving exactly, Still pick a specific point and happy to debate it. Obviously, the status of a currency is out of the question as the truth is too unpalatable, control of monetary and fiscal policy ditto. Feel free to pick any specific “lie” that I have made that has been questioned and not answered. Obviously I ignore the troll, so that doesn’t count. But any others would be valid.

That is what I have done who AS – focused on the lies and the deceit of which there are many and with specific references. Hence the 5k posts!

Why Ben, because the anti-English undertone is blindingly obvious, that’s why!

Why Ben, because the anti-English undertone is blindingly obvious, that’s why!

I must be blinded by it, then – I should ask my English-born partner, father and father-in-law why they’re all voting Yes.

Find me any Yes advert, poster, leaflet or website which is anti-English. Because I pay pretty close attention, and I haven’t seen one.

Nice poster Ben.

First, it is an outright and foul insult to every low income parent and child in Scotland and the UK, through its depiction of them as dirty, scruffy and negligent.

But here is a second reason to be furious about the poster: the figure of 100,000 extra children in poverty by 2020. This is in direct contradiction to the Scottish government’s own White Paper which tells us that by the same date the increase will be by 50,000.

Any single child being forced into poverty is of course an outrage, and certainly 50,000 is too high, but the point here is that there is a discrepancy of 100 per cent between the Scottish government and Yes Scotland.

In the poster, the small print says in advocating independence:

“There is only one guaranteed way to reverse the growing number of children living in poverty.”

This is a lie.

There are other ways; above all changes in government policy at a UK level, which would also benefit children in poverty in England, Wales and Northern Ireland. This may require a change of government, but is does not require independence.

And there is no ‘guarantee’ that independence will reverse the trend.

Anyone reading the poster would imagine that there is a comprehensive, fully-costed proposal for the alleviation of child poverty on the table. However, like the rest of the SNP White Paper, all we have is vague assertions on child poverty: no costings, no projections, no guarantees at all.

The public should now know:

They will use disgraceful images of people in poverty which suggest that low income families neglect their children, and allow them to go dirty and a scruffy, if they think it will win votes.

If there is any doubt, Nationalists and their misguided supporters will choose the highest available figure to inflate their claims.

They will make claims which are unsupported and they know they cannot support, and when asked to do so, they will claim it is not in the public’s interest to know about such things.

Why am I angry about Yes Scotland’s latest poster on child poverty? Let me show you

Fortunately there are none down here! But loads in the rhetoric and that is audible and visible to all.

Yup, I read that blog a week or two ago. He misses the fact that the figure comes from the CPAG (who aren’t connected to the Yes campaign or Scottish government). Then he has a wishy-washy hope that a UK government will suddenly reverse it’s policies to change the situation – that would be lovely, but it’s not going to happen as all the main parties have already committed themselves to further cuts.

t’s you that’s confusing Westminster and England/English – the implication is only obvious to you.

Westminster has MPs from England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland – we want independence from the whole lot, not just the English ones.

Who was the Act of Union between?

So wanting to dissolve the Act of Union is anti-English? Taking it a bit personally, no?

Then he has a wishy-washy hope that a UK government will …..

You however in contrast have a wishy-washy hope that an “independent” Scottish government will magic everything ?

You however in contrast have a wishy-washy hope that an “independent” Scottish government will magic everything ?

We have a government which has at least said they’re going to try.

So wanting to dissolve the Act of Union is anti-English?

I’ll ask again, who was the act of union between?

Because I think the answer pretty much craps on your “It’s nothing to do with England” claim 🙄

We have a government which has at least said they’re going to try.

Erm, Child poverty in the UK has been falling

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/poverty-statistics-fall-in-number-of-children-in-workless-poor-families

I’ll ask again, who was the act of union between?

The parliaments of England and Scotland. So if you want to think that dissolving it is anti-English then surely it’s also anti-Scottish? Is it also anti-Welsh and anti-Northern Irish as well, or is it only anti-English?

Really, it’s none of those.

The poster does not use the word English clearly. But the implication is blindingly obvious. If we do not vote for independence from Westminster 100,000 will live in poverty. That is clearly a crock with false causation.

It might or might not be true, but your attempts to turn it into some sort of English-bashing slur are pathetic.

We have a government which has at least said they’re going to try.

You know of a government which claims it isn’t going to try to reduce child poverty ?

Name me this government ?

An SNP government is no different to a Tory or Labour government in this respect, they will all claim to be concerned with child poverty and all intend to do something about it.

As usual the SNP and their allies fail to provide a compelling argument to show how they will achieve their stated aims, relying instead on faith, hope, and wishful thinking.

Good post Ernie (edit good posts)

Ducks, you forget it takes quite something to unite Ernie and me normally but the constant BS from yS is often common ground. We are both still waiting for our answers many 100s of pages back. Of course, we are not holding our breath as they cannot be answered honestly.

So kona, insinuating that being part of a union with England will result in XXXk living in poverty is not an anti-English slur, really? I find it funny as it’s so preposterous, but imagine how nowty nats would be if the argument was reversed.

So kona, insinuating that being part if a union with England will result in XXXk living in poverty is not an anti-English slur, really?

You really are taking this personally, aren’t you? No, of course it’s not anti-English. What did my English relatives living in Yorkshire do to cause child poverty? Nothing.

No, I am enjoying it in my tea break Ben.

Out of interest would you rate the poster

1. negative or positive?
2. truthful or untruthful (a lie as left foot forward are claiming)?

Ducks, you forget it takes quite something to unite Ernie and me normally but the constant BS from yS is often common ground. We are both still waiting for our answers many 100s of pages back. Of course, we are not holding our breath as they cannot be answered honestly.

That’s interesting,does Ernie want to preserve the union so he can retire up here on his terms as well?

More misrepresentation – who has said that? You are on a roll ducks keep it up (not that you seem to need encouraging). Still waiting for the specifics but tea has finished now…..

1. negative or positive?
2. truthful or untruthful (a lie as left foot forward are claiming)?

1. Negative, I’m not a big fan of it.
2. I have no idea what the child poverty figures are, I’d probably ask the experts – like the Child Poverty Action Group.

does Ernie want to preserve the union so he can retire up here on his terms as well?

No, I believe in a democratic society in which all political and economic power is in the hands of ordinary working people. I reject the charlatans who falsely claim to have simular goals.

teamhurtmore – Member
More misrepresentation – who has said that?

You did,that and an education for your son.

Just been reading some of that CPAG report that predicts 100,000 more children in poverty by the end of the dacade

Interesting when you look at the list of contributors:

Cailean Gallagher is a researcher at Yes Scotland. He is involved with Trade Unionists for Yes, Mair Nor a Roch Wind, and is a member of the Labour Party and Unite. He has worked with openDemocracy, co-editing the Restating Scotland debate and Fight Back! A Reader on the Winter of Protest, and was founding editor of the Oxford Left Review.

😆

It’s weird that you didn’t also quote the profile of the contributor to the CPAG report who follows Cailean Gallagher in that alphabetical list of contributors, Jim Gallagher. I wonder why: http://onlineservices.cpag.org.uk/sites/default/files/CPAG-PovertyinScotland2014-sample-chapter.pdf

” 😆 “

insinuating that being part of a union with England will result in XXXk living in poverty is not an anti-English slur, really?

Yes, that’s absolutely correct.

A bit like saying “being in the European Union will cost 50,000 jobs” is not an anti-German slur.

I am a Scotophile

I think i can safely say all the scots on here, not to mention wee eck, are really feeling your love 😉

.Your double standards and lack of self awareness

TROLL. He wont feed you , its not that he knows he cannot defend himself.The evidence was in your two posts, you literally objected to what you had just done!! There was no defence hence the lame troll jibe and sticking your head in the sands and pretending you cannot see it.
ah here it is on time

Prefer misrepresentation or in one case simply trolling

You spout this lazy insult [ again oh the ironing and hypocrisy] – I bet the mods have declined your protest and NOT one other person has said this on here to me or on STW in general [ not even ernie in jest nor KB* ] You are bright enough to know you cannot defend yourself hence you dont even bother to try. Unfortunately you are not polite enough to not hurl the lamest of insults. You clearly do what you object to over and over again.

You seem to be getting upset when people question your points.

Poor THM the trolls are everywhere
* I am asking for it now

😀 😀

“Feel the hunger”

Kona, its not the same clearly, but not a bad point actually. You must have been reading Obama’s recent speeches! Like falsely blaming Westminster for all Scotland’s ails, there is lots of scapegoating going on globally right now. And Germany cops a lot if it!!

teamhurtmore – Member
…. Like falsely blaming Westminster for all Scotland’s ails …

No, it’s simply the realisation that Westminster will look after its larger and more important constituencies and to them Scotland is an irrelevance except for what can be extracted from it.

Funny that B&Q think we can’t do it ourselves 😉

Apparently changing a computer system and maybe repricing things if the currency changes is too challenging for a multinational company…

No, it’s simply the realisation that Westminster will look after its larger and more important constituencies and to them Scotland is an irrelevance except for what can be extracted from it.

If there is a whining Scot event at the commonwealth games you are on course for a gold medal.

fasternotfatter – Member

If there is a whining Scot event at the commonwealth games you are on course for a gold medal.
As opposed to the balanced,reasoned,measured posts of you and the rest of the English posters,none of whom even have a vote. Can you refute his point?

rest of the English posters,none of whom even have a vote.

I fail to see why posting that had any relevance. May be a point of fact, however implies that people from rUK should not be voicing their opinions.
If you think Yes contributors responses have been balanced and reasoned you are deluding yourself I see Yes stickers popping up everywhere. I have not seen a single Better Together poster or advert, and certainly don’t use them here to back up what I feel. That poster of child poverty and it’s portrayal of a Dickensian Scotland, and the official Yes video, where a young girl effectively tells us to “think of the children”, are quite frankly crass examples of emotional blackmail, not worthy of serious use to back up an opinion.
I will say the official Yes camp is slick and intelligent. Intelligent, as it appears such tripe propaganda is winning support. What a worry!

It was a reply to somebody bringing race into it(again) But you knew that. We have examples such as Zulu’s post on the poverty report complaining about a ys worker having contributed,yet ignoring the fact that the very next contributor works for BT. Why would somebody who has no say in Sept go to the trouble of posting such an easy to call attempt at discrediting a report?
The flinging out of racial stereotypes on this thread have not come from the nationalists. I share your condemnation of using children,but note yours doesn’t extend to the scaremongering vote no borders cinema ad that GOSH objected to last week. I don’t like the tone that the yes campaign is adopting,but then it is astonishingly hypocritical for the no campaign to accuse anybody of scaremongering.

and the official Yes video, where a young girl effectively tells us to “think of the children”

Well, that’s one reason I’m doing it – the alternative to “think of the children” is “think of ourselves” which is what a lot of the short-term No stuff is about.

The interesting thing about Yes is that it is so varied – there’s the official campaign, sure, but there’s also a huge range of other groups – Africans for an Independent Scotland, Radical Independence, the Scottish Socialist Party, etc etc. So there’s not really one coherent media message, everyone’s got their own take on it.

Whereas No have their Better Together campaign, and the very suspiciously funded Vote No Borders astroturfing effort. And, er, that’s about it.

fasternotfatter – Member
“No, it’s simply the realisation that Westminster will look after its larger and more important constituencies and to them Scotland is an irrelevance except for what can be extracted from it.”
If there is a whining Scot event at the commonwealth games you are on course for a gold medal.

You have nicely encapsulated the Better Together policy and strategy in that one sentence.

You have nicely encapsulated the Better Together policy and strategy in that one sentence.

No, it was designed to mock and insult – no reasonable person would describe the Better Together policy and strategy as one designed to insult.

And the claim that for Westminster “Scotland is an irrelevance except for what can be extracted from it” is equally a stupid comment which no reasonable person would take seriously.

It’s clear that neither side has a monopoly over stupid comments on this thread.

no reasonable person would describe the Better Together policy and strategy as one designed to insult.

Now that is insulting and factually incorrect, like most of the tripe coming from the No side of the debate.

Now that is insulting and factually incorrect, like most of the tripe coming from the No side of the debate.

Thank you for correcting me with your reasonable and carefully thought out comment.

ernie_lynch – Member
…no reasonable person would describe the Better Together policy and strategy as one designed to insult.

Did you have a straight face when you typed that?

The grossly insulting, dishonest and threatening BT campaign has done a lot to drive people into the Yes camp despite BT having control over all the traditional news media except The Sunday Herald.

YS boys – you guys are two months too late, it’s the 1st of JUNE today. Or am I missing a new national celebration of comedy?

The weathers nice, it’s a Sunday. If you are not in the Kirk go and have a ride. It should help.

no reasonable person would describe the Better Together policy and strategy as one designed to insult.

You’re right – Better Together don’t mean to insult.

However their patronising attitude, misrepresentation of the facts, spin and dubious sources of finance are insulting to the people they’re trying to convince. It’s pretty telling that no-one ever seems to go from Yes to No, all the movement is the other way, and comment after comment is that it’s the Better Together strategy that’s pushing people that way.