Orange 5 Swingarm question (possibly a stupid one)

Evening all,

I hope i find you all well tonight, i have a wee question for you, it may be an obvious answer but im asking anyway..

I ride an Orange 5 pro with a 16" frame, i bought the bike new last September or October and find it a superb bike, it has taken my confidence to another level. Anyway, i was at Fort William at the weekend riding the red route and had a wee shot on the wc course and absoloutely loved it, while the 5 can handle the red route no problem i found it a bit lacking in travel for the wc course, plus i am intending to do more gravity assisted riding (riding up hills is over rated).

I am thinking the Orange Alpine 160 would be a great compromise of DH ability and still managable to ride up hills if the mood so took me, i am currently building a Cotic soul for xc and trail centre duties so the Alpine would mainly be used for Fort Bill etc.

My question is: Could i fit an Alpine 160 swingarm and coil shock to my 5 front triangle thus making it an Alpine 160? Or am i missing something? ( other than the Alpine swingarm before anybody says)

The measurements in the brochure are very similiar although the Alipne obviously has a longer shock stroke, would this hit the seat tube on the 5? is there more strength in the Alpine front triangle? I would obviously be looking to change the forks aswell to 36's or Rock Shox Lyrics.

Thanks for any assistance you can offer in this matter.

P.s, if it can't be done anybody want to swap frames with me ;), mine is gun metal grey in superb condition, im after an apple green if possible although not a deal breaker..

Why not just upgrade your forks on your five to a set of 160's and get a maxle swing arm for the rear basically making it more like the orange five am might save you a few pennnies im sure you can get the maxle swingarm for about £100 and a new set of forks would be greatly offset by selling your old ones

Hi cabbage,

I just replied to your wanted add! Yeah thought about that but id like a bit more travel at the back so i can ride it with more confidence on the wc course.

I would of been seriously interested in your bike if it had been larger as im 6 foot 2. If your building a cotic up for trail and xc would you not be better considering something like the blood instead of the alpine or even try and pick up a a couple of year old patriot. They have a more downhill/freeride bias but can still be pedalled uphill my mate rides his patriot everywhere he says its well worth the effort just for its quality on the downs and can easily handle any downhill course

And if you check the orange website they have a demo blood up for sale in green with the upgraded fork and colour coordinated wheels looks very nice. Also an alpine going cheap in your size

http://www.orangebikes.co.uk/offers/

I've owned a patriot and now ride a 5. Took the patriot to the alps and it was great but rode a DH bike well we were there and what a difference. I think if you're going to have a hardtail for the xc rides then maybe think about having a DH bike for the fort. You can pick up Orange 223/224's for bugger all now and you would have a ball riding one of those down the track. something else to think about anyway.

Firstly you have the 010 RP 23 so I would send it to
MOJO and put the correct booster valve in for your
weight and this should improve things, costs around £ 40 quid
and go from there.

I have the 08 RP 23 on my 5 and I changed over for a Manitou IXS 6
and never looked back being of similar problems you have.

Unsure if the RP23 shock length is the same size on the
Alpine to the five but the swing arm is around £ 500 quid

Also call Orange they have a very good Tech department.

Put a cane creek double barrel on the back, according Steve Jones of Dirt magazine and something bigger on front "quality not quantity"!

while the 5 can handle the red route no problem i found it a bit lacking in travel for the wc course

More travel per se won't solve your problem.

Do you mean the WC downhill course? If so, a DH bike or something close will be what you want. Orange blood, for instance. If you want to do more uplift stuff then you really want more bike overall than a 5 – not just more travel.

DH bikes are far more than just more travel. Totally different geometry, different longer forks, different bars, stems, brakes, wheels, tyres, saddles, cranks and.. erm.. tubes too 🙂

Very true Molgrips but the guy clearly wants a One bike does all!!
Best take a test ride on the Alpine 160 as the back end is the
same as there 224 Downhill bike minus the thinner metal bits
Here is a pic of my set up.

As somebody said above try a coil shock and some bigger forks TALAS or Uturn would be good as it will still be fine riding up if you wind the front down.

The coil would give you much improved control and traction so the bike would cope better.

One bike does all = no bike that does all well.

If I did want one bike for all, I might start with a Blood tho. Maybe.

I do like that green paintjob grantway 🙂

Thanks for the input so far guys, i did consider a proper DH bike but id like to use the bike for other things aswell.

I was referring to the World cup downhill course molgrips, i thought the Alpine 160 would be a good compromise and give me that little bit of extra travel i felt i needed to up the speed of my descent. I did consider a coil shock or a cane creek double barrel affair, id like a set of 36's up front on whatever option i go for. Is the Alpine 160 front triangle the same as the 5? If so it must be the swingarm that is a different shape to allow the extra clearance.

Nice bike grantway, how do you find the double barrel shock? do you ever use it for full on DH duties? If i decide to go for the Alpine 160 frame im haveing it in Apple green..looks ace. I have had interest in the 5 frame so maybe…

One bike doesn't have to do it all for me as im currently building a nice Cotic soul with light parts. Can't wait…i say currently but the frame won't be here until the end of the month.

Top one[/url]

Go for the Alpine for an allrounder does everything you've described and use the hardtail for 'smaller' days. Give me a shout if you do and I'll sort you out a deal on one of the Diverse Dueller rear coil shock.

Built like this my five doesn't hold me back on the dh runs, i have an rp23 for longer xc ish rides and an inbred for proper xc singletrack type stuff. If i was to venture to the alps i may consider some 2nd hand 36's but other than that i'm more than happy using this for most things, jack of all master of none, maybe, but i'm happy with it.
Also i doubt orange would sell you an alpine 160 swingarm to bolt on to your five front end, they would sell you a maxle five back end but i think they come in around £500, £100 if bought at the same time as the bike.

bolting an alpine swingarm to a five i dont think will make another alpine. For a start it looks like the forward shock mount is further forward and higher up the down tube, also they have different shock strokes so its just not going to work.

I fitted some 36's to my five which helps with the DH and you may want to consider that. I also have a blood which to be fair is much better for downhilling, but lets be clear here, the blood has much less travel then the five but still handles better on DH tracks. What im trying to say is that more travel is not necessarily the answer especially when you are only talking +/- 20mm from what you already have. Maybe its worth taking a look at your current setup to see if you can improve matters.

Yes sailor, i see where you are coming from. Somebody suggested getting the rear shock tuned so maybe phone mojo tomorrow and see what they say or perhaps a coil shock. As for the front i think a set of 36's should sort out a few issues and slacken the head angle a bit.

Then at least in the future if i decide to upgrade the frame to an Alpine ill have suitable forks. I did consider a Blood but think ill stick with the Alpine if and when i decide to change. However if somebody offers the right money then everything is for sale!!

the only downside with fitting the 36's is that it raises the bottom bracket to around 350mm or just over, you do get a 66 deg head angle though from the original 67 deg.

I dumped the air shock and fitted a coil to my blood which improved the rear no end, I couldnt say for sure though if doing the same on the five would get as good results.

As with everything setup makes a massive difference, speak to Mojo about shock setup for your bike, and if you are running stock parts a shorter stem and wider bars will help loads in the rough and steep stuff.

Hi 1981miked Firstly i had spoken to Orange about the Alpine 160
and they say the main triangle maybe Heavier due to what it can
take more abuse but was unsure. But the medium is 2 lbs heavier
than the medium sized 5.

Also when I asked about putting a Coil on my 5AM they said it
would not benifit from it.
BUT i had noticed virtualy all Orange test bikes on there web site
the Strange Blood and the Strange Alpine 5 all had the Manitou IXS 6
rear shock and boy shame Orange dont offer this as an upgrade over the
Fox RP23.
Firstly you dont have to worry about pro pedal its like having
auto pro pedal so you dont have to worry about forgeting to turn
the pro pedal off has soon as you go over or down something it instantly
releases the shock.
The pro pedal feels is like between setting 2 and 3 on the Fox RP23
great for climbing.
Also you have Four bottom out adjustments on the barrel and you
dont need any tools you simply turn the knob to resist the bottoming
out on the ride.
The Maniou IXS 6 does feel you have more rear travel and a lot lighter
than the Coil shocks plus my friend has the DHX5 and thinks my shock
is a lot better and more taught on the climbs and flats has he had to pay
extra for Mojo to get the same feel
You have half click rebound and compression so you can fine tune
your ride, i am still playing with it but great

The bikes in Apple Green

Are you in or around London if so your welcome to give it a go!!

If orange don't think the five would benefit from a coil then why is the ccdb now an optional upgrade? Danny mac has a coil on his five in mojo trail diaries and he's now sponsored by orange.It might be that i'm crap at shock set up but my 2011 van rc has improved the ride of my five no end in comparison to the rp23 that was on there.
The manitou isx6 does look good and reports are good but i've had swingers in the past and it kind of put me off manitou as a brand (also had expensive but crap manitou forks too).

stevede was not an option at the time so maybe there was not
a coil shock for it? But yes have seen the bike.
Yep everyone asks how Manitou have come out with this shock
but works very very well indeed.

Simon, speaking of Deullers – any news? Thinking maybe Five not Patriot now.

They did do a coil shocked five as an option about five years ago but i guess it makes more financial sense to spec an air shock to keep weight down and satisfy a larger weight range of rider as all you need is a shock pump rather than stocking different weights of springs.
They are pretty tied in with mojo now so i guess thats why the manitou isx6 won't appear as an option no matter how good it is in comparison with the rp23.

Thats right I wanted that but that was in 05 i think
it was called the Hard Core 5 i think.

Thanks fot all that grantway, where did you get your shock from then? You have answered alot of my questions in your post. Is that just 32's your running up front?

Sadly..well not really, im up in sunny Scotland so will have to take your word for it but thanks alot for the offer. The Apple green is a great colour, wish i had gone for it now but still like my chrome grey, what brakes are u running? I have the tech 2's and cannot get them to work for me. Thinking off changing them for M4 or saints.

Sailor: thanks again for ur suggestions.. im running a 70mm 0 degree rise stem just now so ill swap that for a 50 mm perhaps, running easton monkey bars, low rise and 685mm in width but like them so gonna keep em.as for the bb height being raised, is it something ud notice?

I find the five handles great in corners, i throw it in and let it drift.. only bike i have ever managed to do it on!

i would recommend having a look on ebay for a patriot 66, make sure its a 66 thou as i find the patriot to be awasome at downhills and you can pick them up really cheap now, i'v just put some totems on mine, and a ccdb, even before when i had 36s on it felt better downhill than a blood and alpine 160, thou the blood is an awesome bike! got a five too which i think i might put the 36s on, maxle swingarm definitly stiffens it up over tech stuff, some nice bikes on this thread! 😀

The m4's will be a significant improvement over the tech x2's – i demo'd a five last year with tech x2's and wasn't impressed at all with them.
50mm stem would be a good move, maybe think about wider bars – nothing silly but a set of sunline vones in 711mm would be great teamed with a 50mm stem.
You can pick up 2nd hand 36's for around £300 if you shop around.
Go on treat your five, you know you want to 😉

Hi 1981Miked yes it is the 08 5AM with the Hope mono 4's
It did have the Fox 36 Talas but had recently sent these in for
a service and changed them into a float 36 r for £ 59 quid.

My stem is the Sun Line AM 65 mm zero rise feels better and quicker
in the turns and also thinking of changing the Bars to the Sun Line
711mm length.

Ahh sorry did check on your profile mate till afterwards and found your in Dundee.
You do find a couple of threads on the Manitou IXS 6 shock
in the MBR web site.
But do ask anything you like mate no probs

yeh, the five with wide bars, short stem, longer forks can handle owt you throw at it, i have chrome grey too with neon green rims!! looks the nuts, wish i could put a pic up but dont know how to!

I noticed the difference in handling with a higher bottom bracket but then i tend to notice even subtle changes like a few psi in the shock or 1 extra click of rebound. The higher BB will give you more clearance on seriously rough tracks though.

I run a 50mm stem, as for bars 685mm is very narrow! Im running 760mm on the five 785mm on the blood.

Brakes….Hope X2's in my opinion are not suitable for a trail bike, especially if you are trying to tackle DH tracks on it. I swapped my front for an M4 and a 203mm rotor (and upped the rear rotor to a 183), and although better its still not great, and is a long way off the power of the Elixir 5's on my blood.

too right sailor! i had tech2's on mine, look good, but **** hell!! the shittest brakes i'v ever had! sold them on ebay for £200 and bought some second hand saints, 685 bars!! is way too narrow if your wanting a good downhill bike, get some raceface atlas, 785mm, you won't look back! 😉

agree with the raceface atlas, im running them on the blood. I was using them on the five but due to a short steerer tube i need a bit more rise so having to run slightly narrower higher rise 760's.

Morning dudes,

I find the tech x2 brakes very disappointing aswell, i thought it was just me! I preferred my stroker trails on my old cove handjob! I could just swap the calipers tho i suppose, or change to saints? I do have set of mono minis on the house from 2005 ish, in mint condition, are they any better?

I had wide barw becore but wasnt keen on them, maybe try it again as the sunlines are well priced. Ill phone mojo today about the shock, i have interest in the frame tho so maybe sell it if i get the money!