One for the wheel builders

How crucial is spoke length? Is a differance of 3mm too much?

I ask, as I have an XT wheel with XM321 rim, that I want to swap for an XC717, according to the DT calculator, I need 3mm shorter spokes on one side for the 717. I know I should use new spokes, but as it’s my first build, I’m really just after a bit of practice, and too see if it all works out ok.

Also, what colour/size/type spoke key is the one most commonly used?

most spokes have 15mm of thread on em, so 3mm should not be a problem.
14 gauge is the most common. i use a round spoke tool with all the sizes on.
cyclo i think.

1st- Download Roger’s book from the wheelpro website, worth every penny.

A £5 Spokey (red) will be the first and only spoke key you will ever need. (unless your using far eastern or odd factory built spokes, but unlikely. They are superb, don’t be fooled by the price.

Practice lacing the wheel up with the spokes you have. You’ll get a feel for how long the spokes are you actually need. The spoke calculators are not as good as experience.

FFIW, I’m very suprised to hear that the new rim needs 3mm shorter spokes on only one side, are the eyelets offset on the new rim then?

Cheers Ton. Is using old spokes going to prove a problem?

Nope Anthony, which puzzled me somewhat too

3mm is fine.

Old spokes are also absolutely fine with the proviso that they haven’t been run loose previously which would usually mean that they’ll break at the elbow quite quickly.

15mm? *measures* 9mm on my dt’s

OP – you may struggle as if the spoke is too short then it bottoms out on the thread. You can only know by trying (calculators are not that accurate)

the nipples are usually the problem, sometimes hard to get the tension with used ones, speshially if any are rounded.

A quick check on the DT calculator (assuming XT Disc hubs and the rims you list) shows an increase in 1mm on the front wheel spokes (259-260 & 260-261) and 1mm on the rear spokes (260-261 & 259-260).

In which case you will be fine. New nipples advised and going to 14mm nipples instead of the standard 12mm will add that extra 1mm you need anyway.

Whoops, I think I’ve made a wee mistake

what I have (according to dt swiss)

Is 259 & 257

What I need is

260 & 258

Cheers all

I put in 32hole, are you on 36h?

32’s

I think 😳

Red Spokey for me – very good. Have you got a wheel jig? Echo downloading Roger’s books – very well written.

Are you sure you didn’t change hubs in the calculator – maybe from a disc to a non disc version of the XT?

Good luck – I have found the key to a good build is to keep the tensions in the spokes as low as possible for as long as possible in the build. You needed to get the spoke tension as even between spokes on the same side of the wheel as possible and keeping the tensions low in the build will mean that you can then get the wheel really tight in the last phase without it pringling. When trueing I always look to remove tension as much or more than adding tension.

Building up wheels is now my evening destress activity of choice to the extend that I’ve built up for mates for fun!

Oh, I put in 14mm nipples – 3 cross

convert – Member

Red Spokey for me – very good. Have you got a wheel jig? Echo
Building up wheels is now my evening destress activity of choice to the extend that I’ve built up for mates for fun!

The problem is, some of the CRC wheel builds are cheaper than buying all the parts seperately.

True, but not really the same though. Riding your own wheels is lovely.

When trueing I always look to remove tension as much or more than adding tension.

Funny, when trueing I always look to add tension as much or more than removing tension.

Why undo work you have just done?

What I didn’t add is that after swearing to always building my own wheels from now on, I’ve just ordered a pair of Hope Hoops from my LBS.

Hope Pro 2 hubs, DT comp spokes, stans flow rims, plus spare spokes for £250. Thats about £70-80 cheaper than I could have picked up the components for online and was exactly the combination I wanted (which is always a good reason to build your own). I justified it as all the components are “off the shelf” so I can replace the rims etc. I did have a perverse idea of deconstructing them and building them up but that might be a bit wierd!

Hardest build recently was building an Alfine hub with its huge effective flange size into a 20inch narrow lightweight rim for an electric car project competition at school (I’m a teacher). Really fiddly to make it strong.

Why undo work you have just done?

Give it a try – it works wonders! You will be amazed how much tighter and stiffer a final wheel you can make. Remember, the first stages are to make the the wheels as laterally true, round and correctly dished as possible with as even tension as possible – not about adding tension. If you have done a good job, you can add the tension in spades at the end. If you have not got it bang on the wheel will go out of true as you start to add decent tension at the end, or will not stay as true as it could in use.

Sorry, I don’t get it. You waste effort in loosening off spokes you have just tightened.

I disagree with your methodology. I’ve built hundreds of wheels btw.

Me too – fancy a build off!

i tend to agree in adding tension. The important thing is to keep everything even and so long as you do that i doubt that tightening or loosening as a technique will make any real difference.

100s of wheel for me too btw 🙂

You are absolutely right. I just think, as does Roger BTW, that certainly for novices too much tension too early masks uneven spokes.

Yeah, possibly a fair comment.

the nipples are usually the problem, sometimes hard to get the tension with used ones

good life lesson, that 🙂

Stress relieving during build is paramount.