Oceangate Sub Missing

Form my understanding they have now passed the time where they will have used up the oxygen they took with them. Grim way to go

Possibly…..if it’s zero degrees down there and they’ve all fallen into hypothermic comas it is possible the O2 will last substantially longer. And not have then sentient to know they are being poisoned slowly by the building up CO2.

Of course that also means the banging stops making them vastly harder to find (vastly harder than ‘pretty nigh impossible’ already)

Because it’s a tragic drama with people who are now known to us through the media.

So that means I have to be upset about them? I don’t know them, even if I now know of them. I’m afraid I have no more sympathy of feeling towards them than anyone else who I don’t know about. Sorry if that offends.

Possibly…..if it’s zero degrees down there and they’ve all fallen into hypothermic comas it is possible the O2 will last substantially longer. And not have then sentient to know they are being poisoned slowly by the building up CO2.

see also – the last breath.

So that means I have to be upset about them? I don’t know them, even if I now know of them. I’m afraid I have no more sympathy of feeling towards them than anyone else who I don’t know about. Sorry if that offends.

I mean you could just carry on your day without a further thought about it. but here you are…

Its not a case of sharing my worldview – people can do what the hell they like – what baffles me in cases like this is that people don’t share my instinct for self-preservation

High chance that at least one of the guys in the sub will think riding a bike in traffic is stupid and risky?

Seeing the Titanic has no interest to me, I can understand how some places and scenarios like this have a pull though. Being 3800m down and seeing the seabed and weird fish, the darkness, the tech needed for life support (erm.. moving on ). It’s all unique, fascinating and slightly risky/scary. That’s a powerful mix.

see also – the last breath.

He survived because of a very partial pressure of O2 in his blood stream.

Saturation breathe a gas mix that has as high as possible O2 content, without poisoning them.

It’s not the 1st time someone has survived for longer than expected due to it.

but here you are…

We’re all here. Is a bit of dark humour or cold indifference any worse or better than the endless whataboutery and speculation that many are indulging in?

He survived because of a very partial pressure of O2 in his blood stream.

Saturation breathe a gas mix that has as high as possible O2 content, without poisoning them.

It’s not the 1st time someone has survived for longer than expected due to it.

oh agreed – it was more a – we dont know what is the state down there – this is why we must keep pushing even after hope is lost.

With the oxygen running out this just seems a horrible and public way to die – either they slowly suffocate in an intact submarine, or it’s exceeded crush depth (which would at least have been quick).

This is dreadful all round. Let’s hope for a miracle.

You have to question the mental faculties of anyone who hops into an ‘experimental’ plastic tube to go to twice the depth as anybody would dare to attempt in one of these…

They had no way of testing the hull for voids after previous dives.

Everyone on here will have s tory of their or their mates carbon fibre failing at some point.

The composites contractor said it was <1% porosity so if they knew that through testing I would have thought they could FEA the effect of the pressure on those air spaces to get a fatigue life or a void growth limit, and repeat the ultrasound checks on the hull after a dive to get an idea of whether the pressure is affecting that porosity percentage. Maybe that’s difficult to do in the detail needed once other parts are fitted though.

With the oxygen running out this just seems a horrible and public way to die – either they slowly suffocate in an intact submarine

while it’s not a nice way to go, lack of oxygen makes suffers Euphoric, so they wouldn’t have been to concerned about their peril. Skip to around 3 mins

we dont know what is the state down there

As someone said earlier .. Schrodinger’s Billionaires

(made me laugh cos dark humour is ok)

You have to question the mental faculties of anyone who hops into an ‘experimental’ plastic tube to go to twice the depth as anybody would dare to attempt in one of these…

Thirteen times the depth isn’t it, military submarines go to about 300m don’t they?

The composites contractor said it was <1% porosity so if they knew that through testing

This was a claim, which wasn’t backed up by testing.

https://twitter.com/jsrailton/status/1671161232794193926?s=20

Highly unlikely given the size of the ocean, but I wonder whether a collision could have happened? Either with another sub. Or… the KRAKEN.

Borrowed from a mate’s FB. Just about sums it all up.

Black Mirror Season 7: While ghoulishly exploring a famous shipwreck, a group of billionaires become trapped in a small submersible. As the air runs out, news channels fight it out in an amphitheatre of rolling coverage, progressing the story on a minute-by-minute basis, splurging expert opinion, personal details or maritime facts, suffocating their audience in a soulless vacuum… until it is revealed that WE are the submersible’s passengers…

Orca attacks.

You have to question the mental faculties of anyone who hops into an ‘experimental’ plastic tube to go to twice the depth as anybody would dare to attempt in one of these…

I wouldn’t question their sanity as I assume that is at least in part the appeal – the danger.

And after all no doubt that is also part of the appeal of climbing Everest or swimming the Channel. Only climbing Everest or swimming the Channel represents a huge personal achievement, unlike sitting as a passenger in a small submarine.

I am not a billionaire seeking a meaning to my life but on reflection I can sort of understand the appeal of doing something highly dangerous which involves other people doing all work.

Certainly if they were to actually survive this, as originally intended, it might well add new extra value, and greater appreciation, to their lives.

This was a claim, which wasn’t backed up by testing.

Uh ok. The compositesworld article had this – “Spencer says initial assessment of the cured cylinder shows that it has porosity of <1%.” so I took that as ‘tested’ to some extent. But if there’s no way to repeat check the structure properly and see what’s happening after each compression cycle it seems risky, more so every dive.

So that means I have to be upset about them? I don’t know them, even if I now know of them. I’m afraid I have no more sympathy of feeling towards them than anyone else who I don’t know about. Sorry if that offends.

Sounds more a lack of empathy than sympathy.

Sounds more a lack of empathy than sympathy.

Whatevs. 🤷‍♂️

At least I’m being honest rather than undulging in the festival of mawkish faux-compassion.

So that means I have to be upset about them? I don’t know them, even if I now know of them. I’m afraid I have no more sympathy of feeling towards them than anyone else who I don’t know about. Sorry if that offends.

At least I’m being honest rather than undulging in the festival of mawkish faux-compassion.

Sometimes I’m so impressed by how places can bring people together to help another, like this place clubbing together to get a car fixed and delivered to a total stranger like Gunsmas.

And other times I’m reminded quite why that’s special.

There is a difference between not showing sympathy/not personally giving a shit, and appearing to be slightly gleeful about their predicament..

At least I’m being honest rather than undulging in the festival of mawkish faux-compassion.

You are not actually being particularly honest. As far as I am aware no one has engaged in “mawkish faux-compassion”.

Expressing the hope that they are successfully rescued, and also the belief that dying under particular circumstances must be deeply unpleasant, does not imo represent “faux-compassion”, just fairly human emotions.

I regularly watch “Saving Lives At Sea”, it is one of my very favourite programmes, the emotions it triggers are very similar to those I am experiencing in connection to this story. There is nothing false about them.

And I tend not to pass judgement on those who are rescued.

while it’s not a nice way to go, lack of oxygen makes suffers Euphoric, so they wouldn’t have been to concerned about their peril. Skip to around 3 mins

That’s not entirely true in this case, the build up of CO2 may not be pleasant. Read back a couple of pages for the science.

So hypothermia or Hypoxia first?  Assuming they’re on the sea floor and haven’t imploded?

Horrid thought and dont mean to sound too mawkish.

Well at least this thread throws up a reminder that there are some contributors I wouldn’t want to spend a jolly evening in the pub with. I suspect our “humours” would be incompatible.

That’s not entirely true in this case, the build up of CO2 is not pleasant. Read back a couple of pages for the science.

Really depends on the limiting factor of their atmosphere management – it’ll have a component to scrub CO2 and a supply of O2 to top up the fraction that’s used by the passengers and either of those could be the reason for a 96h timescale. If the O2 runs out while the CO2 scrubber is still working then the fraction of O2 will drop until they become hypoxic, but the CO2 level won’t be sufficient to cause discomfort so they’ll pass out relatively peacefully. If the CO2 scrubber is the limit then the fraction of CO2 will start to increase which (from personal experience) is extremely unpleasant – I had a partially flooded rebreather at ~40m depth so I was getting CO2 buildup in the breathing loop and it’s the closest I ever came to ripping my kit off and bolting for the surface – not a good idea!

You have to question the mental faculties of anyone who hops into an ‘experimental’ plastic tube to go to twice the depth as anybody would dare to attempt in one of these…

Thirteen times the depth isn’t it, military submarines go to about 300m don’t they?

I don’t know the exact figures (and they’re classified anyway) but i’d put 750m out there as an educated guess.

There is a reason NATOs submarine rescue capability can’t/doesn’t operate below 1000m, and that’s because if one of their big subs sinks below that depth there won’t be much left worth rescuing.

That’s not entirely true in this case, the build up of CO2 may not be pleasant. Read back a couple of pages for the science.

It’s all conjecture as the two systems will be sort-of separate, there’ll be an oxygen supply and a CO2 scrubber, although they may be part of the same piece of equipment they work separately. It’s not a case of reducing CO2 into solid carbon.

As it’s not been mentioned I presume the oxygen is running out first?

[edit – as the purist said]

I was getting CO2 buildup in the breathing loop and it’s the closest I ever came to ripping my kit off and bolting for the surface

I had a CO2 build up in a dive helmet, worse feeling ever. You feel like you are suffocating and can’t take enough breaths, all the more producing more CO2. Horrible.

I think I read there was some doubt about whether this dustbin was equipped with a scrubber.

So hypothermia or Hypoxia first?

I would have though that if the vessel is warm for ~9 hours it’ll stay warm, i.e. someone’s done the maths and insulated it such that 5 peoples body heat keeps it comfortable?

Also, the sea bed isn’t freezing, it’s 4deg C as both cooler and warmer water are less dense from that point due to hydrogen bonding. Cold, but not a cold as you’d immediately assume.

I am not a billionaire seeking a meaning to my life but on reflection I can sort of understand the appeal of doing something highly dangerous which involves other people doing all work.

Certainly if they were to actually survive this, as originally intended, it might well add new extra value, and greater appreciation, to their lives.

I think many billionaires are not searching for meaning in their life. On the whole to become a billionaire you have to be very intelligent, hard working, resourceful, risk taking etc etc. I can completely see why they want to do this type of stuff. Many get rich yes, but give back huge amounts at the same time.

I think there is a smaller section of the super rich who lack direction in life, they will be the type who have many super yachts, homes, cars etc without any real passion for them.

I dont think you will find any great explorers in history who started off in a shack, with the exception of maybe baby Jesus if you are that way inclined.

On the whole to become a billionaire you have to be very intelligent, hard working,

No doubt some billionaires are as you describe.

However as per my above comments, many are just lucky.

This episode exposes the point that some billionaires probably aren’t that intelligent (aren’t good at assessing risk)

This one’s a world record setting pilot, so I guess he is well aware of risk, just has a different attitude to it than others.

Successful entrepreneurs may have a different attitude to risk, but we only tend to hear about the ones whose risks paid off. I’m sure a larger number of similarly risk-happy entrepreneurs ended up bankrupt.

EDIT: Who broke the page formatting then?

It looks like it might have failed at depth. BBC reporting debris field found near Titanic wreck.

I think I read there was some doubt about whether this dustbin was equipped with a scrubber.

Me too, on a BBC report. I can’t quite see how that works, but there’s a few bits on this sub that seem a bit shonky to me.

Former Royal Navy submarine captain Ryan Ramsey says he looked at videos online of the inside of Titan and could not see a carbon dioxide removal system, known as scrubbers.

Whether it’s 4C or 0C, as power runs out they’ll be getting cold.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65981277