I completely understand the bans relating to nuts and sesame seeds at schools. To lose a child because of something that is entirely avoidable would be tragic.

One thing that troubles me, is where do these alergies come from? When I was at school I don’t remember anyone having alergies to nuts etc. Does this stem from from the obsession of everything being sterile and hygenically clean, meaning that kids aren’t exposed to certain bacteria etc, so their immune systems aren’t fully developed?

When I was at school I don’t remember anyone having alergies to nuts etc. Does this stem from from the obsession of everything being sterile and hygenically clean, meaning that kids aren’t exposed to certain bacteria etc, so their immune systems aren’t fully developed?

Better diagnosis nothing to do with the bacteria.

Definitely wasn’t mentioned to us as a viable treatment

There have finally been some clinical trials run in the UK and the success rate with severe peanut allergies was very high. The issue is that trials are very expensive to run, I know I’ve spent years of my life at investigator meetings, and at the end of these trials there is never going to be the chance of a product that can recoup the cost of the trial.

so their immune systems aren’t fully developed

This isn’t about underdevelopment of immune systems, it’s not a weak immune system at fault but an immune system reacting to things that it doesn’t need to.

I’ll state one simple thing as a parent of someone with severe allergies…

This is someone’s life you have in your hands whether you like it or not. Take some tiny amount of responsibility and omit the foods the school has asked. It’s not exactly hard.

spekkie
I don’t know anyone with a nut allergy so I’m guessing here, but do most people (when they are children I presume) discover they have a nut allergy when they eat something with nuts in and their body reacts in a drastic way?

Yes. And its bloody scary being sat in a children’s hospital with your six month old thinking they’re going to die.

spekkie
And if so, wouldn’t they remember what that was like and never want to go through it again? Hence never breaking the sharing rule?

No, because they’re usually very young when it happens for the first time. And kids are kids, they think they’re invincible. Parents know they’re not.

This is someone’s life you have in your hands whether you like it or not. Take some tiny amount of responsibility and omit the foods the school has asked. It’s not exactly hard.

So……would you assume a nut ban would automatically covered non nut items such as sesame seeds? Did the school previously ask the OP to omit sesame seeds? I’m not clear it has. For context the nut ban at our gaff makes no reference to sesame seeds.

I don’t think there are more kids with allergies just it is spotted more these days

that combined with the fact diets are more varied and food is generally buggered about with more these days than when we were kids means more cases of it happening.

in my non scientific opinion it must be something to do with the food and how.much it’s messed with. Soy used to be the wonder bulking agent and then they found out lots of people had soy allergies. now it seems to be stuff like pea is used instead. hey Presto more pea allergies identified

gluten free, veggie eta all means substitutes are found in the ingredients.

needs to be a return to whole foods, this is far easier said than done

gluten free, veggie eta all means substitutes are found in the ingredients.

You seem to be mistaking intolerance with allergies.

But yes maybe some bulking of foods may to be blame but it is diagnosed easier now, sometimes before a severe reaction.

So……would you assume a nut ban would automatically cover non nut items such as sesame seeds? Did the school previously ask the OP to omit sesame seeds? I’m not clear it has. For context the nut ban at our gaff makes no reference to sesame seeds.

No I wouldn’t, but that’s because I know enough about the subject now to know what different allergens are.

That circumstance sounds like someone trying to be well-meaning but getting it wrong.

My lad is now 9 and he has a simple rule that he’s enforcing himself, he won’t eat anything unless he’s seen the packet with ingredients on and he knows his own list of allergens. If he’s not sure, he won’t eat it. This is great, but a marked difference from when he was 4 and the school insisted every child was going to have school dinners, yet couldn’t present me with the ingredients in every food. That required a fairly frank exchange of views with the head about my son bringing a packed lunch in from then on whether she liked it or not. Thankfully the school has come a long way in the last five years, and are now really supportive and on the ball.

Just one thing to throw into the mix here … whilst the home, and perhaps the school can become (more) controlled environments, the outside world doesn’t …
The average adult is an unclean thing, and possibly their kids are worse … very few people wash their hands these days as a matter of course. Hence tables, doors, chairs etc are all possible points of contamination. And within that trace quantities of allergens. It probably won’t affect the intolerant … but if you are parts per billion allergic……
It is all very well banning peanuts (etc) from schools , or planes, but what about the tray tables, touch surfaces, ticket machines etc …
Research has to go into increasing the tolerance to allergies and intolerances … not having a world where everything in banned …
BTW pea protein will become more and more common, as it is seen within the food industry as a good new protein… vegan and vegetarian friendly, clean etc … so expect to start seeing it appaering in many things as a replacemnt to soy …

Research has to go into increasing the tolerance to allergies and intolerances … not having a world where everything in banned …

Or maybe ban it where it can be controlled because at the moment there is no cure.

and are now really supportive

It’s a shame the same can’t be said on here. There have been certain posters who’ve come across in lacking any empathy for the very worrying conditions you and yours and others live under.

that’s why I was talking about food.being messed with (not.mixing intolerances with allergies)

gluten free is now popular, even people without an intolerance buy it, to make gluten free products they have to ‘mess with typical ingredients. hence.more.ingredients.you wouldn’t associate with that food stuff being in it.

we were nearly caught out by Tescos the other month. they changed the ingredients to one of their sausages we have used for years. the ingredients had not been updated on the website but luckily my wife noticed the packaging looked different so thankfully read the packaging and found the dreaded pea flour in there.

it’s a bloody nightmare. if there are trials we can take part in (or pay for) I’ll be doing what we can

there is also a consultation out at the moment I think kicked off by the pret debacle about how councils can help.more.with allergy sufferers

It is all very well banning peanuts (etc) from schools , or planes, but what about the tray tables, touch surfaces, ticket machines etc …

My previous employer brought in a nut (and fish) ban last year. One of the employees has a nut allergy. They became seriously ill after touching a door handle.

So…. I think what you’re asking is: “is it right for some people to be mildly inconvenienced to reduce the chances of some poor young kiddie dying painfully whist at school?”. Nice.

No. That’s not what I’m saying. Quite happy to make that effort and abide by the rule. Just aware as we found out this week that humans make genuine mistakes and therefore multiply that up by 150 sets of parents was questioning the effectiveness of this approach. Not sure you can say the school is nut free and if it significantly reduces the risk. I would be devastated if that slip up had resulted in a hospital trip or worse.

that’s why I was talking about <span class=”skimlinks-unlinked”>food.being</span> messed with (not.mixing intolerances with allergies)

Ah sorry.

It’s a shame the same can’t be said on here. There have been certain posters who’ve come across in lacking any empathy for the very worrying conditions you and yours and others live under.

Well we can’t have poor Tarquin’s feeling guilty as a child was made unwell due Tarquin wanting to take an brioche with sesame seed topping for his lunch. The allergy kid should go to the workhouse.

Better diagnosis nothing to do with the bacteria.

It’s not just better diagnosis, it seems to be generally accepted that prevalence has increased too. I don’t think there is conclusive evidence that excessive hygiene is not a factor contributing to it.

So what do you want banned?
Current common allergens

Wheat
Rye
Eggs (btw DNA is eggs is the same as female chickens, so you shouldn’t consume those either)
Nuts
Peanuts
sesame
Soy
dairy
Shellfish
Celery

So how would you legislate that these are banned from some places? ….
BTW – I have a severe allergy to penicilin. Can that also be banned … just in case.

I do not know what the answer is but excluding all the above for the public is non-viable. Hence we actually need to understand why allergies are on the increase …. exposure seem to be a big issue

And this doesn’t get over the contact issue of common shared spaces … which, If kids are affected enough that nuts should be consumed on a flight, how do you stop the potential that the previous 7 people in that seat may ate nuts?

Genuine question – are there more allergy sufferers nowadays (compared to when I was at school 40 years ago) or are we just more aware of the issue? And if so, what has caused this and – if we know the cause – can we reverse the trend?

I don’t think there is conclusive evidence that excessive hygiene is not a factor contributing to it.

Allergies are not caused by nil exposure.

And this doesn’t get over the contact issue of common shared spaces … which, If kids are affected enough that nuts should be consumed on a flight, how do you stop the potential that the previous 7 people in that seat may ate nuts?

Try finding nuts on a plane these days. Most airlines have dumped them, I certainly can’t remember seeing any for quite a while

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/wet-wipes-allergies-baby-child-peanut-egg-dust-eczema-a8291861.html

My flight to Dubai two weeks ago had nuts on … but no peanuts. And loads of sesame … but it was an Emirates flight.

Re allergies and the numbers increasing … it would interesting to compare the West with Asia, or African consumers …. but I will now ask that question.

I am guessing thing like coeliac are more or less where they have always been … but peanut / nut/ seafood/ sesame do seem to be reported more. But maybe that is awareness and testing …

So what do you want banned?

The only thing that should be banned is the thing that a particular child at this particular school have a severe allergy too.
Nobody (except you?) is talking about widespread banning of anything that somebody MIGHT be allergic to. What is actually happening is that schools are banning something that one of the pupils has a known, serious allergy to.

So how would you legislate that these are banned from some places?

Exactly how it’s done at the moment: “dear parents, one of the children at our school has a severe allergy to celery. To avoid increasing the risk that he might die, please don’t send your children to school with celery in their lunch boxes”.

I have a severe allergy to penicilin. Can that also be banned … just in case

Are you a five year old? Are you likely to take some paracetamol by mistake, or is somebody else likely to give it to you without you noticing, or as a “joke”? Or are you an adult who’s capable of managing your allergy?

I do not know what the answer is but excluding all the above for the public is non-viable

We know it’s not viable, that’s why it hasn’t been done (and nobody is suggesting it)

What we are talking about here is

reducing

the risk that a child might die or become seriously ill (not removing all risk completely, but reducing the risk of death is good, right?). It’s obviously up to each individual to decide how much inconvenience they can tolerate in order to avoid putting a specific child’s health/life at risk.

Would you put a seatbelt on your child in the car (even if it wasn’t the law)? What about a cycle helmet when they are out on their bike? Wouldn’t remove the risk of injury death completely, but it would reduce it.

Ok, now what about if your child with out with another parent/friend of the family? Would you expect that parent/adult to put your child’s seatbelt or cycle helmet on? How would you react to that parent/adult telling you that it was too much trouble to put your child’s cycle helmet on, and it didn’t remove the danger completely, so they didn’t bother

btw DNA is eggs is the same as female chickens, so you shouldn’t consume those either

Wait, what? Ok never mind.

DT78 – most recent research is actually to encourage kids to eat their allergen to increase tolerance. Obviously under very controlled environment of a hospital setting.

There have recently been promising trials of a new treatment derived from nut protein:

https://www.nhs.uk/news/medication/new-treatment-peanut-allergies-shows-promise/

^ yes saw that. I did ask a few years ago about similar when my daughter was diagnosed with a peanut allergy but we were told that was some time off, so it’s just avoidance and carrying epipens for now. But fingers crossed for a few years time.

Batfink,

Is that you drama queen moment over?
I am not suggesting doing anything to harm any children. Your kids may have issues with celery, so that becomes your concern ….
But there are several other allergens out there that will maybe affect others… so in a school of 1000, how do you deal with the potential issues?

Obviously the best way of addressing this is labelling/ highlighting the matter, so that those with issues can avoid or address. The Pret issue has shown this to be fallable …

You scorn the egg issue … but we cannot declare a product as being egg free if it contains any chicken. The DNA / proteisn are shared, proteins cause allergies … do you now understand.

Re penicilin … my point is that if I am not concious then it could be administered. So using the peanut analogy, maybe it should be used.
But yes, I am all growed up, and am looking for the rational answer…and you over reacted.

Here is a huge issue – real allergies vs made up ones.
There are systems to cope with real allegeries but those jumping on the bandwagon hinder the support for those who actually have a medical issue.
Coelics are getting a tough time by those palying at being gulten “allergic”.

Evidence does seem to support the fact that kids can grow out of an allergy, and that exposure ( under controlled conditions etc) may be a vaible treatment. But by association, that hints that non exposre may have a role to play…

Egg allergies causing anaphylaxis is extremely rare a bit like well gluten.

Egg allergies causing anaphylaxis is extremely rare a bit like well gluten

Drac I think you could spend the rest of your life trying to make people understand the difference between an allergy and an intolerance and still get nowhere. It’s so simple that it’s beyond the grasp of many.

Yeah I’m not even going to entertain why he’s not be given penicillin without knowing his medical history.

There is a huge gap between allergy and intolerance, avdave2. But as you say, most people do not make a distinction… or chose to not to …
I have lost count of the number of people I talk to for who “allergic” means “I don’t like”.

The restaurant trade is littered with stories of people who are allergic to different shapes of pasta, or garlic “but not when it is garlic bread”
But then when someone goes into a restaurant, or a store, and says “I am allergic to seafood …..”

Drac – I needed antibiotics for a severe infection that could have killed me. What’s your point? Penicilin derived antibiotics were the most effective … but I could have them.

Drac – I needed antibiotics for a severe infection that could have killed me. What’s your point?

You’re very unlikely to given penicillin without knowing your medical history, it’s part the protection for those with allergies.

There’s a staggering amount of ignorance with regards to the difference between intolerance (might make your tummy funny), allergy (will make you feel pretty ill), and anaphylaxis (will likely result in death if not treated promptly)
Although food is required by law to list all the major recognised allergens not all those allergens are likely to result in an anaphylactic reaction.
Although in theory anything COULD cause an anaphylactic reaction (as per the posters son with a severe pea allergy) , the most common are shellfish, nuts and bee stings and therefore these are usually the ones that are focused upon. Nut allergy is particularly problematic for sufferers due to the prevalence of nuts in food production and the fact that they are easily available as a snack food.
its also worth re-iterating that allergies are as a result of the bodies overactive immune system (not a reduced immune system). reactions are therefore worse where the allergen comes into contact with soft tissue or blood. Touching a door handle might not cause an anaphylactic reaction and may just result in an itchy hand, but ingesting and allergen will likely cause a much quicker and severe reaction, which normally takes the form of swelling as the body tries to stop the ‘infection’ from spreading and sends more and more defenders to the area. Rapid swelling of the mouth and throat is not something you wan. Death usually occurs due to suffocation which personally I’d find a pretty horrific way to go.

Anyway, back to the OP. I think it’s perfectly reasonable to protect children that are too young to protect themselves, furthermore, I think it’s good to teach our children to be aware of the needs of others and to consider others needs above their own. perhaps we should also try teaching some adults these lessons…

There have recently been promising trials of a new treatment derived from nut protein:

https://www.nhs.uk/news/medication/new-treatment-peanut-allergies-shows-promise/

for some reason nut allergies are more common in Aus’ than some other countries and there is a lot of research here…..same approach as above but has reached clinical trials stage

https://www.monash.edu/news/articles/new-peanut-allergy-treatment-now-in-clinical-trials2

[/carryon]

Any of you lot ever watched a kid eat?

Allergen (e.g. peanut butter) on fingers, fingers wiped on trousers, trousers on seats, fingers all over furniture, fingers all over books, pencils etc.

You scorn the egg issue … but we cannot declare a product as being egg free if it contains any chicken. The DNA / proteisn are shared, proteins cause allergies … do you now understand.

Utter bollocks – apart from the bit about it being the proteins that cause the allergic reaction.

My son has an egg allergy. Along with nuts, legumes and white fish. All will cause a severe anaphylactic reaction, legumes being the worst.

I have never seen a product containing chicken also carry an egg warning unless it had egg as an actual ingredient in something else, such as batter. And chicken does not cause a reaction with him.

We cannot declare products as being egg free if they contain any chicken. By law, and a directive of the EU. Even if they have never seen an egg ….
From an analyical point of view … and hence liability.

Of course, if you know better, and would like to come and instruct to our 15 people strong regulatory department, let me know.
It would make our lives a whole lot easier if you can tell the EU as well….

So I will see your “bollocks’ and raise it to “ double bollocks”
It may not trigger an allergy in your kid … but there you go…
That is allergies for you

No mention of eggs here.

https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/gb/groceries/sainsburys-chicken-korma-(mild—creamy)-400g?langId=44&storeId=10151&krypto=CMEt1xktAIisBnP8BrDQ9R00m4LgqFLeFQ45IV1s8BF%2Fcdy8eaMfz27hm3rnACIDg5U8P6cl6%2BBCfo7ec32mlDV4xqRhOxSBWi%2F4VIiNvTgwO5VCxAWiW1DvZdwWq1wV6qboKGPZfMId8FAyd9xdVYSn5C2LYFzCfHejxcxb30k%3D&ddkey=https%3Agb%2Fgroceries%2Fsainsburys-chicken-korma-%28mild—creamy%29-400g

Are we going after 2 specific and different certifications here?

May Contain Egg Vs 100% DOES NOT contain egg? Both read differently