I rec’d a NIP in the post dated 27.02.19 for a speeding offence that allegedly took place on the 19.12.18 in Cardiff. I readily admit that I am not a perfect driver and that I do tend to speed (really only on the motorway), but I have checked my calendar and I was not in Cardiff on the date in question.
I’m confused – is there any way these cameras make mistakes? My reg plate hasn’t been stolen. Is there anything I can do about it? Can I request to see the photo?
Advice gratefully received…

My reg plate hasn’t been stolen

If you weren’t there then it’s probably been cloned though.

It could also be a misread of the plate due to dirt/muck on it.

Others will hopefully be along with the legal side, but iirc you can request evidence/contest it if you’re sure it wasn’t you.

Have you checked google timeline ?

If you are absolutely certain you were not where the NIP claims you were, I’d be giving the old bill a call to discuss – I’d imagine there is a contact number on the letter you have received.

You may feel a bit of plum if they respond with a photo of you by return post tho.

More than 14 days after the offence think they’re on shakey ground in any event

https://www.motordefencesolicitors.co.uk/knowledge-guides/notice-of-intended-prosecution-nip-guide/

The 14 day limit is a good point too.

Could it be a scam?

Ask for photographic proof of who was driving?

Well firstly that’s well outside of the “14 days” period. Not sure of the exact exclusions. However the overriding thing for me is you physically weren’t there. Respond accordingly telling them that very fact. It happens quite a bit I do believe.

I readily admit that I am not a perfect driver and that I do tend to speed (really only on the motorway)

Why would you admit that?! No need! 😆

I was also thinking scam to get you to pay up.

IIRC you’re always entitled to see evidence of the offence. I’ve had it happen to me twice* and both times clear photos of my vehicle were included with the NIP.
If you’re unsure, definitely query it.

* first time, drove through a “bus and cycles” only lane because I was on autopilot and I usually cycled through it. Second time, also on autopilot, turned left at a junction where they’d just put up a new no left turn sign. Both totally my fault, both £60 fine.

I had this with a car I had that was written off – two months later I started getting speeding and bus lane tickets for it from Cardiff. I phoned the local police using the number on the letters and they told me what to do.

Unless there’s good reason to the contrary, they have 14 days to issue a NIP (note that’s not 14 days for you to receive it) or it’s not enforceable. Anything else is whataboutery, tell them to sod off.

EDIT: damn, you lot type fast!

Have you checked google timeline ?

I’m so ignorant I didn’t even know that was a thing… Checked and I have no records on google.

I will call them tomorrow – I was intending to deal with it today and when I looked at the address and then at my calendar I realised there is something not right. The office closed at noon. I have no idea if it is a scam, and I don’t know how I would be able to tell. I did get a copy in english and welsh so if it is scam they’ve at least made the effort! 😉

Thank you all for the advice so far.

I was also thinking scam to get you to pay up.

Actually, that’s a good point. Who’s the issuer, who does it say you’re supposed to reply (and send monies) to?

The office closed at noon.

What office?

I would a) google that phone number and b) no way in hell be ringing them until I was absolutely certain who I was dealing with.

Even then you’re better off dealing with these things in writing, it’s too easy to incriminate yourself verbally (a fact beloved of a certain breed of debt collector) and you’ve got a record of who said what when.

erm the notice is dated 27/2 for an offence on 19/2 well within the 14 days…….so proving it took over the 14 could be difficult unless postmarked…..I would still be asking for a copy of the evidence though.

Ah – the OP said notice dated 27/2/19 for an offence dated 19/12/18.

As others have said, check which agency it came from – it sounds like it could be a scam, especially if it doesn’t have all your details (name, address, vehicle registration, exact site of offence including camera details).

Might even be worth checking Google Maps to see if there _is_ a camera there too!

To be clear – the NIP is dated 27 February 2019 for an offence allegedly committed on 19 December 2018, so two months after the event.

I am pretty sure it is not a scam as all my details are correct. Says to respond to the safety camera unit… pontypridd, and the officer in charge is G.R.Wort. Also I said the office was closed – to be precise it is only the telephone lines that close at noon.

It’s 14 days from offence. So as was said well outside that. Also wondering why something dated 27th Feb has took nigh on 3 weeks to arrive with you.
The exclusions are sometimes things like hire/courtesy cars where it has to be passed through an internal system etc.

And..going back to my op, you weren’t actually there, yes it’s on you to prove that fact but it could easily be done with m9b8le phone records.

I asked for evidence and they sent around a traffic car with the photos and also to basically take my car apart looking for defects. They were visibly annoyed that it was totally legal 🙂 It was totally me, I had my dates wrong, but your location may vary.

Buit it sounds like thats not the main thing here.

erm the notice is dated 27/2 for an offence on 19/2 well within the 14 days…

I hope you where glasses when driving.

Sounds like a scam to me OP.

the officer in charge is G.R.Wort.

In charge of what? The Department for Muggle Transport Offences?

Is it your own car registered to you or is it leased?

Comply with the notice and reply as they suggest. If you’re absolutely sure that you weren’t in Cardiff on that date provide receipts for meals, fuel, ATM transactions etc for wherever you were

As johndoh suggests…
Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988
(1)Subject to section 2 of this Act, [F1a person shall not be convicted of an offence to which this section applies unless]—
(c)within fourteen days of the commission of the offence a notice of the intended prosecution specifying the nature of the alleged offence and the time and place where it is alleged to have been committed, was—
(ii)in the case of any other offence, served on him or on the person, if any, registered as the keeper of the vehicle at the time of the commission of the offence.
(irrelevant sub-sections left out for clarity by me)

In other words it could be a correctly served NIP, and the onus is on you to prove otherwise

It’s 14 days from offence. So as was said well outside that. Also wondering why something dated 27th Feb has took nigh on 3 weeks to arrive with you.

Actually rec’d it couple weeks ago, but I was away and am only dealing with it now.

And..going back to my op, you weren’t actually there, yes it’s on you to prove that fact but it could easily be done with m9b8le phone records.

Not so easily proven as I am rather backward. My iphone is a 5S (the battery rattles inside) and it’s almost always had location services turned off. But I am sure if they provide a photo it won’t be my car…

Is it your own car registered to you or is it leased?

Registered to me.

In charge of what? The Department for Muggle Transport Offences?

yes …and of the Safety Camera Unit.

But I am sure if they provide a photo it won’t be my car…

If I was planning to clone a number plate the first thing I’d do is find one from a car of the same model and colour…

Well, the name checks out, the CTO for the safety camera people is indeed a Ms Gloria Wort (who I believe was in charge of Defence Against the Dark Arts for a while)

Google Timeline – Mind Blown. I didn’t know that existed. Although I am now slightly disappointed how small ‘my world’ looks.

In other words it could be a correctly served NIP, and the onus is on you to prove otherwise

the NIP is dated 27 February 2019 for an offence allegedly committed on 19 December 2018, so two months after the event.

Pretty concrete proof, n’est’ce pas? They can’t convict as the NIP was issued too late, it’s there in black and white on the piece of paper. Am I missing something here?

Pretty concrete proof, n’est’ce pas?

Registered to me

At that point I’d agree

Cougar,

Whilst it is Possible That the NIP has been served late even then the s172 requirement must still be met – ie he must meet his obligations to identify the driver (or explain why he can’t – eg “at the time and date stated the vehicle was at XYZ and the only set of keys was in my pocket at ABC, I have receipts which show I was at ABC at around that time. No other person has access to, or had permission to drive the vehicle at that time”)

Most often when people think the “14 day rule” gives them a get out clause it turns out that the NIP they received was not the first one issued but, there is a lease company, company car, previous keeper, incorrect address etc which got the original properly served notice on time.

Beware of internet advice to ignore these things. There is no obligation for them to provide evidence prior to court, but most camera departments will provide photos to help ID the driver (some do it online). If there is a belief you may have been cloned you may be asked to provide photos of your vehicle (or they may send traffic officers to compare it to their pics).

*lights touch paper*

Pay it for all the times you admit to speeding but haven’t been caught?

*Runs away with fingers in ears*

I hope you where glasses when driving.

No but i do WEAR them!!