My 6th form college niece is thinking of getting a D3100 for her photography course. Any thoughts? Not just snaps, but art projects, photojournalism etc.

Any other cameras similar/worthwhile?

Go and play with a few in a camera shop.

There’s little to choose technically between the ‘big two’ – Canon and Nikon – these days, but the look and feel of each is very different. Canon’s EOS 550D is at a similar price point and better on paper at least. See http://snapsort.com/compare/Canon_EOS_550D-vs-Nikon_D3100

Does she have friends in the same boat? Having the same brand of kit means they can load and swap.

Look at the lenses she’ll want / need and the prices; there can be a big difference between Canon and Nikon equivalents.

Does she need a full sized dSLR? There’s some nice four-thirds options, and CSC cameras are catching up fast.

A lot of photography courses still insist on using film cameras

Best to find out more and what she needs then look for a suitable camera, plenty of secondhand ones about with warranty from places like MPB Photographic and Ffordes

A lot of photography courses still insist on using film cameras

I’d suggest that what you want there then isn’t a different camera, it’s a newer course.

I bought my daughter a D3100 as a graduation present but then she got a job in Romania so I’ve not had much chance to try it out. From the small amount I’ve used it I’m quite tempted to get one myself.

I bought one 15 mths ago and thought it was great. One month ago the mirror stuck for no apparent reason. Back to Jessops/Nikon service centre who want £290 to fix. Cue discussion ref sale of goods act etc etc which is ongoing. Would recommend getting extended warranty just to be on safe side…….

I’d take it apart myself for that. Not much to lose is there?

Seems to be info online about it.

Nikon are currently offering an extra years guarantee on it if you register after buying and £30 cashback. I’ve just bought one for our daughter but not got near it myself yet. It does seem to be highly rated as a beginners camera but not the cheapest. However as a former professional I’d tell you it’s not about the camera. 🙂

30 years ago this August I got an OM1 and it changed my life, within 18 months I’d a place on a Photography BA course and it’s influenced both what I did after that and what I do now, best thing any has or ever will buy for me.

I have one and love it. Loads of modes when you want the camera to do the work. Good viewfinder with just the right info for me, but decent LCD with loads more. Fast, quiet, compact, fairly light. Loads of accessories available from third parties. Works well for specs wearers, which matters a lot to me. Video is great visually, but audio just OK. Manual mode easy to work with, white balance has plenty of choices. RAW mode too if you are going to post process heavily. I’d say go and try a few in a decent shop though, as on specs I’d set myself on a Pentax, but just didn’t get on with it in my hand or through the viewfinder.

I bought one a year or so ago, its my 1st digital slr after a 15year break off photography.
It’s a great little camera, honestly can’t fault it.

Does it really cost them £500 to add a second finger/thumb wheel to give seperate appeture and shutter controlls? Even my MEsuper manages to have seperate controlls (appeture ring on the lenses, buttons for shutter speed up/down). That and focusing seems 100x easier on the Pentax with the split ring/prism thingy in the viewfinder.

Is it like cars and whatever you learnt on becomes the ‘right’ way to do things and every other method is, or at least feels, ‘wrong’.

thisisnotaspoon I largely agree with you, they are built to be used in auto modes and manual is secondary. I would love a digital OM1 or FM2 but no one is going to make one. And to be fair the focus and exposure on current cameras is so good the necessity of manual to overcome camera limitations is disappearing. However sometimes it,s nice to take your time and decide everything yourself.

TINAS they are doing it deliberately to differentiate their models.

Their product range is carefully targeted at different market segments, and there will be an upgrade path. So they take stuff out of the ones they pitch at the lower end so that the people who buy it get into it, and then a year later they go ‘ooh I fancy this other thing’ and upgrade.

Intel also do this, or at least they used to. The cheaper ones were the same but just locked down to lower speeds.

If anyone thinks that the price of a mass market high value product is proportional to its cost then they need a reality check!

I would love a digital OM1 or FM2 but no one is going to make one.

Not sure what you mean by that. What is is that you want? You’ve seen the OM-D right?

I’d suggest that what you want there then isn’t a different camera, it’s a newer course.

Think you will find that a photographic degree course will use film and digital. You may have heard of something called medium format which is still largely film based.

Mate of mine got one and in some aspects I reckon it outperforms my D80. It’s features are somewhat limited, so I wouldn’t want to swap – things like no infra-red remote capability (I think) and no flash commander etc.

But, it’s a pretty serious camera.

Sticky mirrors? The mrs has just ordered her new camera body and it is reckoned to be good for 400,000 shots on the shutter/ mirror. I winced at the price if it mind you. Makes bikes look dirt cheap.

Not sure what you mean by that. What is is that you want?

A camera that is entirely manual, focus, aperture, shutter speed, iso setting.

The cheaper ones were the same but just locked down to lower speeds.

A friend years ago took his dirt cheap matsui vhs player to get it repaired only for the technician to ask him if he’d like him to activate the nicam. Cheaper to make all models with the same parts buy disable features on cheaper models.

The mrs has just ordered her new camera body and it is reckoned to be good for 400,000 shots on the shutter/ mirror. I winced at the price if it mind you. Makes bikes look dirt cheap.

Just wait till she starts stocking up on lenses 😉

It’s like buying a bike each time.

A camera that is entirely manual, focus, aperture, shutter speed, iso setting.

Even my Nikon D60 can be used in that manner, so why would you need a digital camera that only offers manual operation? That would be such a niche item that it would be so unpopular as to render it prohibitively expensive.

The problem I have with DSLRs is not the bodies, it’s the price of the lenses. Whereas other technologies have come down in price, relative to functionality, lenses seem to stay ridiculously expensive.

Cougar – Member
Go and play with a few in a camera shop.

There’s little to choose technically between the ‘big two’ – Canon and Nikon – these days, but the look and feel of each is very different. Canon’s EOS 550D is at a similar price point and better on paper at least. See http://snapsort.com/compare/Canon_EOS_550D-vs-Nikon_D3100

Does she have friends in the same boat? Having the same brand of kit means they can load and swap.

Look at the lenses she’ll want / need and the prices; there can be a big difference between Canon and Nikon equivalents.
+lots
cougar has it right – go pick ’em up, have a play, see what feels better in you hand, what functionality (mode dials and menus) work best for you…

I agree about trying picking some up to get a feel for them.

Personally I would suggest getting something used that’s a bit more ‘prosumer’ like a 40D or D300, the ergonomics are just a lot nicer than on an entry level camera. Lenses are at least as important too, but for learning old manual focus lenses with an adapter can be great IMO.

If they get into it the pro level lenses were always more expensive for Nikon, but the latest Canon prices seem to have gone a bit bonkers.

Think you will find that a photographic degree course will use film and digital

My daughter has just finished a photography course using my Sony A55 and borrowing a film SLR from the college to complete the non digital pieces. A55 has small body so very good for lady like hands, agree with above about handling many different cameras before deciding.

Even my Nikon D60 can be used in that manner, so why would you need a digital camera that only offers manual operation? That would be such a niche item that it would be so unpopular as to render it prohibitively expensive.

With a focus ring as good as a manual lens?
With a dedicated ring or dial for ISO, aperture and shutter speed?

And as for the cost the Leica range-finder’s in particular were technically obsolete years ago and not widely used by pro’s but they had a dedicated following among enthusiasts willing to pay the premium.

Oh she has the lenses already. Some look like she has borrowed Hubble! Some wimmin have shoes, she has camera kit!

Well, that narrows the choices somewhat. Important piece of information, that. Presumably she has a camera already then?

I’m kinda confused as to how someone would own a load of lenses and not know exactly what they wanted camera wise.

Scratch that, even the 5100 doesn’t have an autofocus motor in now, give me an older D90 instead!

The problem I have with DSLRs is not the bodies, it’s the price of the lenses. Whereas other technologies have come down in price, relative to functionality, lenses seem to stay ridiculously expensive

Olympus have the best lenses for cheap, I reckon, but I doubt even the most die hard Oly fan would suggest anyone buy one of their SLRs now, sadly, due to lack of support.

In other news, I get to pick up my 9-18mm in 6 weeks 🙂

With a focus ring as good as a manual lens?

I have a Sigma EX lens with a traditional style focus ring, complete with distance gauge. It doesn’t have an aperture ring, but honestly wgaf? You just twiddle a knob on the camera instead. I can also use OM lenses, they have aperture rings.

My digikal Panasonic L1 has proper aperture and shutter speed controls, its lovely.

Molgrips haven’t you gone m4/3 yet?

When I suddenly find £400 down the back of the sofa, and I feel like ditching a perfectly functional camera with which I’m happy, then I might go m4/3 🙂

Seriously tho I have thought about it.. considered a cheap E-PL1, but people complaining about the wobbly lens put me off. Then the E-PL3 looked like my favourite upgrade, with superbly quick AF faster than my SLR. But now I’ve decided my next camera will be an OM-D, it’s just a question of when 🙂

Even then, there’s no real reason to ditch my E-600, I’d keep it so I can have two bodies if I’m in the mood. In the mood to look like a total wannabe, that is 🙂

TINAS they are doing it deliberately to differentiate their models.

yea, just annoying that my wishlist would probably be a very simple camera, but the simplest camers in the nikon/canon ranges are way overcomplicated with things I don’t want and the bits I would like are only on the expensive bodies, but in terms of cost are presumably the cheep bits! It’s probably a practice thing but my dad’s DSLR seems needlessly clumsy to opperate compared to my MEsuper. I reckon I could get frommy pocket to taking a useable image the old fim camera is probably quicker (excluding developing, and the 23 out of 24 shots that are rubbish but you thought would be really good)!

Which bits would you like then?

I’m not sure about the over-complicated stuff – you can always ignore them. You still have PASM. My SLR in basic use is pretty much the same as my old cheap Pentax film SLR was if you take the basic case. You can even turn off the LCD menu and operate it through the viewfinder display just like things used to be.

I reckon I could get frommy pocket to taking a useable image the old fim camera is probably quicker

On mine, all I do is remove from bag, remove lens cap, flick the on switch and shoot. The first two steps are by far the longest, hard to see how it would be any quicker with a film camera 🙂

Remember you don’t have to faff about with white balance or noise reduction or any of the rest of it. You can ignore it all completely.

Maybe it’s just me (and a lack of practice) then, just feels clunky having to press at least one extra button to access the shutter/appeture setting or +/-ev rather than having those settings imediately to hand.

Film:
half press to turn camera on
flick film winding lever
focus (with ring)
set appeture (with ring)
set +/-ev (with dial under left finger) or exposure (under right right finger) depending on mode
press shutter
bask in the knowlage of a good photo taken
wait 5-7 days for prints
be dissapointed

DSLR:
turn camera on
half press to focus
set appeture with fiddly little thumbwheel
take camea away from eye
search of +/- button
set exposure
realise you were in the wrong mode and you’ve just adjusted some other function
seatch through menu’s to find the center weighter/spot/full metering options
set camera back to appeture priority
set appeture
set ev+/-
press shutter
look at screen which now shows something that looks nothing like what you were looking at through the viewfinder
be depressed that you are neither the next Seb Rodgers or David Bellamy

Shooting with film is like playing the lottery, Shrodingers cat and finding true love all at the same time. For the time inbetween pressing the shutter and getting the prints back you can think about how brilliant it is and how much you love taking photographs. There’s that elemet of comitment tot he photograph so even if it’snot perfect you’ll look past it’s flaws at a beuty only you can really appreciate.

Digital is like buying a scratchcard, you know instantly you haven’t won and makes you feel bad. A bit lie a seedy carpet club in a northern town (usualy called Zanzibar or Crystal, or Desitny). You could go and pull with soem degree of success, either going ugly and goin early or just keep trying untill you get it right, but the next day you’ll stick it on facebook and forget about it soon enough, either that or your mates will see it and give you a ribbing over how bad it looked.

You just described incompetence, not camera ergonomics 🙂

Like I say – switch on, press button. That’s it.

On mine, if you want to faff about, the EV button is under your right index finger, the metering button is under your thumb, you don’t have to take your camera away from your eye to use them.

D3100

Just checking you do know that this camera is about to be replaced by the 24mp d3200. Hence why Nikon are doing cashback. Check dpreview etc for info.

Sticky mirror

All Nikon cameras have a two year warranty if you register your camera body when you buy….

Digital is like buying a scratchcard, you know instantly you haven’t won and makes you feel bad.

I think I’d mostly agree, but,

I’ve had plenty of shots that have looked pish on the screen, but have looked great when cropped / viewed on a full size screen.