Nicola Sturgeon arrested

I await to see the outcome, as my opinion is it all seems very fishy, just like others opinions are it looks fine and its some sort of persecution

I don’t think it’s persecution.  Complaints have been made and investigated.

Obviously, getting arrested is always going to come across a ‘fishy’ but if there is anything there I’ve yet to see any sign of it.

Funnily enough, it’s not really the unionists who are pushing this.  It’s indy supporters who just really really hate the SNP (and Sturgeon in particular).  Like I said earlier, they should have just had patience and waited for the ferries investigation.

@politecameraaction

If the SNP wanted to spend the money on itself, it could simply have asked for general donations in the normal way. But it promised to put these particular donations to a particular use. If is proven that the party spent ring fenced money on itself, then the lesson for other parties in the future is simple: don’t lie about where you’re going to spend donations and stick to your promises.

I didn’t donate so I don’t know what actual promises were made or how they were presented.  Often the T&Cs of crowd fund donations are not as clear cut as they could be.  The media reports say things like “campaigning at a second independence referendum” but does that include campaigning to have a 2nd ref in the first place?  How much of the party’s core purpose is securing indy and therefore falls within scope?  What if there is no indy ref? what if the SNP was to dissolve (or go bust!) where should the money go?  what if the SNP were to pass a motion that meant the party was no longer going to campaign for Indy (or even was going to campaign for Federal UK)?

There’s a second crowd funder still running (https://www.yes.scot/donate/).  it is worded as:

The independence campaign is people powered and you can help to provide Yes campaigners with the materials to reach every part of Scotland.

Even a few pounds will make a difference. No matter how large or small, your donation will go direct to this campaign.

With your support, we can make sure that Scotland has a choice about its future.

It tells me very little about what the money will or won’t be spent on, but there’s nothing there which suggests it’s going to be held as a pot of cash until IndyRef2.  Which seemed to be the basis for the original complaint.  The small print below the donate button makes clear it is a political donation to the SNP.  There is certainly scope there to be clear about its intended use.  If I was raising 1M and wanted to make sure people trusted it was only going to be spent in very specific ways I’d have put a governance board in place (or even a separate organisation around it) to show this.  Of course, the flip side is if you are going to donate, you can look for those things.

As stated before, i see a huge difference between incompetency and fraud, i err on the former when it comes to most political parties and their finances, they’re always going wrong in some way, be it balancing the books, taking donations from persona non grata, frittering away funds and so on.

From the limited info i’ve got on this, i just see the biggest mistake was committing to ring fencing, and what that constituted, they almost set themselves up for a fall with that one. I expect a full and thorough investigation as we’ve seen, ‘arrests’ to come and at the end, a probably slap on the wrists for a few, but no charges.

Personally the punishment so far outweighs anything a court of law could do for this debacle for the likes of Salmond and the SNP.

It’s just an attempt to turn the Scottish population away from the concept of independence.
The country as a whole has been turning to ashes while in the care of the English of English political parties, The tories, and while in Scotland we all know the tories are a shit show, if they can show that the party promoting independence is as corrupt as they are, then maybe with independence it would be worse as no other PM has been arrested for out and out theft(even though we all know its nothing like that), and maybe just maybe it would be better retaining the status quo.

It’s just an attempt to turn the Scottish population away from the concept of independence.

By angry indy supporters?

Nope, not following the logic.

It’s just an attempt to turn the Scottish population away from the concept of independence.

Bit of an odd (and somewhat xenophobic) conspiracy theory – that “English Tories” have such strong control over Police Scotland (which the SNP created, and which is overseen by the Scottish Government via the SPA, and which is part of the Scottish legal system which has always been distinct from that of England & Wales) they have got Sturgeon and her husband investigated…and yet the “English Tories” can’t control other police forces to stop the plethora of investigations into Tories’ own behaviour!

It’s not like other politicians haven’t defrauded others…or other MSPs haven’t committed crimes…or other MSPs haven’t defrauded independence campaigns and the SNP…

As an aside, as far as I can remember, there has never been the slightest suggestion of criminal wrongdoing by Jeremy Corbyn. That’s despite him being the target of wild personal abuse and meticulous oppo research over two general elections. If “English Tories” were going around pushing the police into spurious criminal investigations, don’t you think Corbyn in his ascent would have been a bigger target than Sturgeon past her political prime?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_parliamentary_expenses_scandal
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2005/sep/23/uk.lords
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64744051.amp
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/23/boris-johnson-referred-to-police-over-allegedly-hosting-friends-at-chequers-in-lockdown
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-64353054

https://twitter.com/Freerangescots/status/1667908871145283591/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1667908871145283591

politecamera action – do you really think the met have been as diligent investigating the tories corruption over far larger sums with clear personal enrichment as police scotland have been investigating the SNP?

don’t get me wrong – I think its a good thing that this has been investigated thoroughly and I have faith the outcome will be fair and just.  I just think the met is far too cosy with the tories and not very dilligent

investigating the tories corruption over far larger sums with clear personal enrichment as police scotland have been investigating the SNP?

1) we don’t know how diligent Police Scotland have been yet – they might turn out to be completelty remiss

2) if you’re referring to the VIP lane for COVID gear, unbelievably trafficking in influence isn’t illegal in this country (which is a huge oversight imo) and there is a public inquiry into it and other COVID disasters

3) the Met are very problematic. So is Police Scotland. Neither of them is the only police force in this country. And yet despite all that politicians are fairly frequently getting investigated, charged and convicted of criminal offences. It’s something to be proud of!

The tories are a completely different argument, they have always been pretty much opposite to other parties, they get so many donations and backers they can be picky, and tend to always have funds to have half decent management, the complaints about them is always down to being in bed with those donating, and are they fit and proper.

SNP/Labour/etc tend to struggle to get donations, and manage their campaigns pretty poorly due to tight budgets and counting on volunteers to do a lot of the work.

Again, no point discussing others though, this is an SNP issue and the resolution to this issue may take a long time by the looks of things.

Private Eye reporting today that Murrell, SNP Compliance Officer Ian McCann, Kirsten Oswald MP, and SNP Nth Lanarkshire chief Tracy Carragher all likely to be interviewed by Police Scotland as part of investigation into sexual assault and harassment allegations against Jordan Linden (the old SNP boss in North Lanarkshire). Presumably as witnesses rather than suspects, and with no arrests.

Are you suggesting that Police Scotland can interview witnesses without them being suspects? Makes you wonder why they had to arrest Nicola Sturgeon eh?

If you are interviewing witnesses there is no need to do it under caution.  If you are interviewing potential suspects there is a need to do so under caution.  Thats the differnce

If you are interviewing witnesses there is no need to do it under caution.  If you are interviewing potential suspects there is a need to do so under caution.  Thats the differnce

Unless the witness is a close relative/friend of the suspect, which is almost certainly the case here.

Yep, when I got arrested last it was because it wasn’t all that clear if I was a witness or a suspect, so arresting and then releasing without charge covered both bases. In Sturgeon’s case there’s presumably a possibility that she gets charged so it’s being handled for that possibility. (though, I bet 20 scottish pence she never is)

As the laughter grows and grows, can anyone end the joke?

This has been bugging me.  I am surprised no one picked me up on it.  I posted “The glee some of you show is rather unseemly.” which is somewhat hypocritical given the glee I show for the downfall of Trump and the tories.

apologies and you guys missed a chance there 🙂

Tbh I, an SNP member have no idea what the leadership thought they could achieve by sending Nicola Sturgeon a bunch of flowers.

I commend Michelle Thomson for sticking to her guns

TJ cuts out the middleman and argues with himself, good job my man 🙂

TJ

This has been bugging me. I am surprised no one picked me up on it. I posted “The glee some of you show is rather unseemly.” which is somewhat hypocritical given the glee I show for the downfall of Trump and the tories.

I see it as completely different.
I’ve yet to see the outcome… but I saw Sturgeon as perhaps a very rare mostly honest politician who wants to do the best for the people as she see’s it.

Trump, Boris and probably many Tories are from all evidence in it simply for their own benefit.

This also seems like a completely trivial amount of money… not that I’m fully up but isn’t it £600k or something? That’s only 1/2000th of what my local (Tory) council (for pop 100k) managed to lose somewhere.

’ve yet to see the outcome… but I saw Sturgeon as perhaps a very rare mostly honest politician who wants to do the best for the people as she see’s it.

That’s a bit much, she’s a politician, so will always embellish the information to support her arguments, same with doing the best for the people, she’s not there to do that either.

I put her in the same band as good politicians, the likes of call me dave cameron, tony blair, etc, those who are good orators and are able to ride a popularity wave to the end, we’ve had so many god awful politicians lately that she stood out in this day and age, but she certainly isn’t a shining beacon of honesty, she’s had to claw her way up there, for a long time stood shoulder to shoulder with Salmond, who was also deemed a great leader, not look at him after the accusations and nastiness he’s shown since being kicked out.

“for a long time stood shoulder to shoulder with Salmond, who was also deemed a great leader,”

If you look at results there is no comparison. Salmond took the SNP vote from a steady 30% to a steady 45-48%and got a referendum.  Sturgeon hasn’t moved the SNP vote up at all.

Sturgeon failed on drug deaths, NHS waiting lists, ferries, roads, education, etc. Oh, and alcohol deaths.

Her main effort the Minimum Unit Price, based on the flawed idea that alcoholics would cut down if you increased the price has failed.  A recent study by a group of Sheffield academics whose model was the justification for the policy admits it didn’t work.

https://snowdon.substack.com/p/minimum-pricing-modellers-eat-humble

Plans to deal with drug deaths were quashed by westminster – Drug policy is a reserved issue.  just saying like.

Sturgeon became a very marmite figure and a significant % of the Scots population can see no good in anything she did, whilst others can see no wrong.  there is not many of us who try to see the reality

So far as I’m aware MUP was not introduced with the intention of preventing “alcoholics” from buying alcohol. When someone has become an alcoholic they’re already addicted and require much more than a mere price rise to help them stop drinking.

The point was to reduce drinking amongst those who drink to a very unhealthy level but are not yet addicted. The survey’s conclusions show some support for that and for an increase in the minimum unit price which was set in 2011, but which is now too low.

There are many studies which show some support for MUP. For example –

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(23)00497-X/fulltext

MUP has only been in effect since 2018 since the drinks industry fought so hard to prevent it.  It’s much too early to make any definite conclusions yet.

If you look at results there is no comparison. Salmond took the SNP vote from a steady 30% to a steady 45-48%and got a referendum.  Sturgeon hasn’t moved the SNP vote up at all.

Sturgeon failed on drug deaths, NHS waiting lists, ferries, roads, education, etc. Oh, and alcohol deaths.

Her main effort the Minimum Unit Price, based on the flawed idea that alcoholics would cut down if you increased the price has failed.  A recent study by a group of Sheffield academics whose model was the justification for the policy admits it didn’t work.

Can you really compare them?  for most of Salmond’s term (2004-2010) , nothing happened – the vote share remained around 20-22%, it wasn’t until the financial crisis (2008/9), the Tory government (2010) and the resulting austerity (2011 onwards) that the needle really shifted.  So, I’d give credit to the Tories for increasing the SNP vote.  Sturgeon then had to deal with Brexit, a global Pandemic and a Cost of living crisis, all within 7 years. It’s no wonder it was difficult to achieve her goals.

@IRC reread your post and acknowledge that you understand what alcoholism is.

My point remains that MUP was not expected to help alcoholics, but in the longer term to reduce the number of people who are drinking heavily enough to become dependent on alcohol.

Doesn’t appear to have worked so far.

“Alcohol-specific deaths in Scotland have increased from 1,020 in 2019 – the year after MUP was implemented – to 1,245 in 2021, the highest count since 2008. ”

https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/23400058.minimum-pricing-count-deaths-never-happen/

TBH I wasn’t expecting to see results any time soon. I thought it was more a generational thing.

Well, hold on – to be fair:

And yet, the Lancet study says MUP has saved lives; in short, that without it, the death toll would be even worse.

This is particularly the case in the most deprived areas, where alcohol-specific deaths are estimated to have been up to 33.6% lower than they would have been otherwise.

That seems like a success, doesn’t it?

irc
Full Member

If you look at results there is no comparison. Salmond took the SNP vote from a steady 30% to a steady 45-48%and got a referendum. Sturgeon hasn’t moved the SNP vote up at all.

The real result is, Salmond left behind a party in good order and an heir apparent who’d had the best political training any british political leader except maybe Brown’s had for decades. Sturgeon… Not so much. On that alone I’m going to judge her harshly, she was the beneficiary of all that and didn’t seem to make any attempt to repeat it.

But to be fair Salmond was always leading towards a single obvious goal, Sturgeon never had that luxury, and a lot of SNP members and voters agree on little apart from independence (and of course a lot of people who moved to the SNP were more comfortable when there was no indyref in sight- my mum would never have voted SNP pre-referendum but afterwards she liked everything else about them). Not to mention the hilarious avalanche of unqualified MPs that were never supposed to actually win seats. Holding that rabble mostly together was not a small achievement. It’s like, imagine the tory party if they didn’t have one unifying thing to look forward to in the short term? The whole party’d break up by friday if they weren’t allowed to make a child cry or rob a hospital.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-68850088

Maybe not the right thread but I couldn’t find a Murrell one.

According to The National Police Scotland have turned off commenting on their article. Might be worth bearing in mind before commenting on here
https://www.thenational.scot/news/24263341.former-snp-chief-executive-peter-murrell-re-arrested-amid-police-probe/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR0op16E89DBz9RvCYOpWV7p0_g3X9aJNGAfDb8Mupd3OmWX7uIlGP8Anho_aem_AdPUfjOmErueLji91mZLTQfUAw4O6g2GP-I3nzUTBePbGFlBymr1hyxn5rWjo53C5ELL339I5No7soReSetWto-h

Now charged with embezzlement. Not a good day overall for the SNP

Methinks this thread should be closed given the warning by Scotland’s finest?

Well, the Tories are giving a collective sigh of relief!

Salmond was arrested, charged and acquitted; Sturgeon’s spouse was arrested and charged; Yusuf’s spouse’s brother was arrested and charged. I suppose it’s a positive trend that arrests get progressively further away from each successive SNP leader…?

Methinks this thread should be closed given the warning by Scotland’s finest?

Sorry I must have missed that, what did TJ say? 😉

Sorry I must have missed that, what did TJ say?

🤣

Maybe not the right thread but I couldn’t find a Murrell one.

I’m sure that whatever it is that Peter Murrell is alleged to have done, Nicola Sturgeon – his wife and leader of the party of which he was CEO – knew absolutely nothing about it.