650b,

Looks nice in black.

Prefer the black to the kona/halfords type blue

How can you tell without it written in massive letters on the tyres and/or rims? 😀

wukfit – Member
How can you tell without it written in massive letters on the tyres and/or rims?

That’s the joy of 650b – you can just tell people you’ve made the switch without doing anything, it’s almost impossible to tell.

In fact……hang on……yep….I’ve just gone 650b

Actuallyt, that looks like it;’s 650B front and 26″ rear. I think I just invented a new niche 🙂

eww at that blue with hints of yellowy green.
that’s SC scratched off my list.

26 is finished.

I thought the rear wheel had a reflector on it.

Really like that. Lazy question as on the way to work, how does the geo compare to the orange 5?

I notice the Blur LT is no longer on the US Santa Cruz website.

Putting all their eggs in the 650b basket.

Putting all their eggs in the 650b basket.

I guess they can afford too. They have no mass produced low end 26er bikes for the masses and the availability of components for 650b is becoming more widespread it kind of makes sense.

Still, a brave move by SC. I’m still unsure why it’s become such a ‘buzz’ movement and with the Heckler moving this way I can’t help but feel a little part of me has died.

SC product photographers are very good, aren’t they?

Glad I got mine now then!!! Heckler with a Deore Triple crank??? Eeuuchh!

DT78 – hecklers have a short top tube, so people who normally ride a M get a L.

5 has a HA of 67 deg, heckler quotes 67.5, but that is with a 140 fork, and it takes up to a 160. Mine has 160 Marz55’s and offset bushings which pushes it to 66 deg, and also lowers the bb.

I guess they can afford too. They have no mass produced low end 26er bikes for the masses and the availability of components for 650b is becoming more widespread it kind of makes sense.

Still, a brave move by SC. I’m still unsure why it’s become such a ‘buzz’ movement and with the Heckler moving this way I can’t help but feel a little part of me has died.

Right now, it’s not a brave move, they are currently leading the charge & everyone else at that end of the market has been caught with their pants down.

I have a friend who runs a high end shop that does SC as well as other comparable high end brands, the amount of enquiries and sales of Bronson’s is staggering. What’s also interesting is almost overnight 26″ enquiries and sales have almost come to a complete standstill on the high end stuff.

butterbean – Member

I have a friend who runs a high end shop that does SC as well as other comparable high end brands, the amount of enquiries and sales of Bronson’s is staggering.

What’s most staggering- according to Santa Cruz anyway- is that it’s entirely driven by people who’ve never ridden a 650B bike but have decided they want it based entirely on fluff. We get the bike industry we deserve apparently.

Nice to see the Heckler refuses to die, they’ve tried to neglect it to death and replace it and it just keeeeps going.

The Heckler is SC’s Orange Five.

Now here’s an idea – buy a 650b bike, put a longer travel 26′ fork on it, with 26′ wheels. Get extra clearance on big tyres and a lower bb! Winner, or instant death?

The black one looks pretty good – not surprised at the wheel size change either because as other have said SC are really geting behind the 650b thing.

Part of me wouldn’t be surprised that it is being driven by customers (at least in the States). You only have to look at some of the american forums like MTBR / Pink Bike to see that the Amercians seem to be going mad for it. They really do think that it is the future. I guess they are much more into looking for the next big thing.

For now I’m sticking with my 26inch wheels but my new frame is ‘future proofed’ because I can swap the drop outs to take a 650b wheel.

What’s most staggering- according to Santa Cruz anyway- is that it’s entirely driven by people who’ve never ridden a 650B bike but have decided they want it based entirely on fluff. We get the bike industry we deserve apparently.

Yup, exactly that.

I’ve ridden various 650b proto and production bikes and the difference is inconsequential to anyone other than maybe a professional. Even then, Nico suggested its what amounts to fractions of a percent different.

You (we) do get what we deserve, all I read on here is we don’t want it, pointless etc, yet literally all the research, numbers and trends prove the polar opposite.

I keep saying it, but 26″ sales at the higher end of the market are in free fall at the moment. For bike companies, we either embrace the change, or we don’t sell any bikes. It’s that simple.

The Heckler has always been the bike that I picture in my mind when someone mentions a F/S bike. Still looks good after all these years. Never owned one, like, as it’s “too rad” for a mincer like me. RE 650B/26″……………..erm, meh?

but 26″ sales at the higher end of the market are in free fall at the moment.

Sort of a self fulfilling prophecy though – if customers are holding off buying to see whats going to happen next, i.e. if they’re going 650 or staying with 26, then either is a valid choice – people aren’t ‘not buying 26’ they’re just waiting to see the manufacturers shit or get off the pot before buying anything at all.

dantsw13 – Member

DT78 – hecklers have a short top tube, so people who normally ride a M get a L.

This new one has a longer TT, apparently – same length as the Bronson.

Now here’s an idea – buy a 650b bike, put a longer travel 26′ fork on it, with 26′ wheels. Get extra clearance on big tyres and a lower bb! Winner, or instant death?

I’m having the same twisted thoughts… 😈

If you run 2.4/2.5″ 26″ tyres your almost running 650b/27.5″ anyway… i.e. 2.4″ Rubber Queens are bigger than most 2.2″ 650b/27.5″ tyres.

I might do try this on a hardtail… I guess my Mmmbop would probably take a 27.5″ wheel but I don’t want to go raising the already rather high BB.

Can’t think of any donor 27.5″ hardtails though 😕

I’d assume a 650b Chammy is on the way which would be very tempting.

Edit: … and carbon too please Mr Royksopp… oh and for the same price as the current alu one 🙂

Edit edit: can’t see the Chammy at all on their US site!

but 26″ sales at the higher end of the market are in free fall at the moment

is that driven but riders jumping on the bandwagon and believing the hype of bigger wheels, or by future-proofing their expensive new purchase due to paranoia that if they spend thousands on a 26″ it’ll be obsolete (no spares/higher end parts availability) in 2 years? I believe its the latter.

I am totally ambivalent to the big wheel revolution, some people I know who’ve bought em love em, some have hated em, all my current bikes are 26″ and theres nothing wrong with them, but if I was in the market for a new high end bike now I’d wait a year for the 650/29 dust to settle, and/or go for a bigger wheeler for fear of being abandoned by spares and component makers.

Looks nice 🙂 Santa Cruz seem to have a knack for making bikes that are really fun to ride and I’m sure this’ll be no exception.

I think it’s all due to indecision about 29ers. People feel happy that they’ve moved up a size, yet nothing’s really changed.

(should I apostrophe nothing’s? Spell check says no, but my head says yes)

Apostrophe ok. You’re abbreviating “nothing has”

As for wheel size, erm, I like 29ers and the Tropicana colour scheme.

Glad me and Ms AD have just bought a BLT and 26″ Heckler frame.

AlexSimon you are spot on, the rolling diameter of my 26″ wheels with hans dampf 2.35, was within about 5mm of a 650b wheel i offered it up to, 29ers have their place with these folk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ8qj86D-eU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

but the whole 650b thing is snake oil for the easily led.

mrblobby – Member

Edit edit: can’t see the Chammy at all on their US site!

Hidden away in their “Hardtail” section

http://www.santacruzbicycles.com/chameleon/

Nice to see it has what looks like a Maxle.

what is not good is the expanding collet pivot, i had constant trouble with them on my Blur LTc, they sieze all the time and are made of cheese, its not even hard cheese either its more like dairy lea.

oh and no reverb stealth routing either, makes my strive look awesome value, a heckler to a slightly lower spec than my AL8 would cost over £3900 thats jst a piss take.

I hope they have given their bikes proper top tubes this time round – it does seem that a lot of american bikes have pigmy top tubes these days. The medium Covert is the same.

SC also need to make sure that they get the trends right because they’re no longer really a small company, admittedly they’re no Giant or Specialized, but they certainly churn our more bikes that Knolly or Banshee.

I agree that it probably is a self fulfilling prophecy with people having off until the debate is settled. I’ve ignored it so far, but it does seem like there will be less and less 26 inch bikes available soon which I assume will settle the debate once and for all.

I also think that a lot of the naysayers (myself included) are probably those people the industry hates who hang on to stuff for ages and buy a lot second hand. My SX frame is a 2005 and is only just getting replaced and my 05 36’s are still going strong and will end up on my new frame.

a heckler to a slightly lower spec than my AL8 would cost over £3900 thats jst a piss take.

I haven’t checked your maths, but the heckler is reasonably priced for a full sus frame. The full builds don’t look like they will be bad value either. Buy from your local friendly bike shop too.

Comparing the direct sales model of the Strive to building up a distributed frame is always going to look extreme.

More than half the people I ride with are on Santa Cruz bikes these days (slightly depressing, but there you go).

AlexSimon – Member

I think it’s all due to indecision about 29ers. People feel happy that they’ve moved up a size, yet nothing’s really changed.

Bingo. People want novelty but they’re afraid of change. 650B give the “best” of both worlds, something new and shiny combined with a change that they’ll barely notice. Oy veh.

Nomad next? Or has than already happened & I’ve missed it?

also – I’ll be honest. All these long travel bikes look better with 27.5 wheels in the photos. 160mm bikes no longer look tall and gangly – they look like 140mm bikes 🙂

I find this 650B trend a tricky one. I’m firmly in the “it won’t make any difference” camp. I’ve done a fair bit of testing of 29ers and even there I think the differences are pretty small. However, I’m kind of pleased that Orange (for example) decided to make the new Five a 650B. If 650B dies a death then you can always run 26″ wheels and either use larger tyres or just enjoy the extra mud clearance and lower BB. But if you buy a new 26″ frame today and 650B does become the de-facto small wheel size it might be a bit more tricky to source spares. So, it’s just about future proofing I guess.

But that’s just buying into the hype in another way really.