wow…the 2013 heckler …26″ with new geo..was just a few months on the market now…not even a year..
http://www.santacruzbikes.co.uk/heckler

^hopefully this’ll mean there’s a few bargains to be had on used hecklers when everyone panics and switches to 650b 🙂 I’ve always wanted a Heckler since riding my Bullit, seems pretty much the same but a bit lighter and shorter travel.

Interesting video from Bikemag “Why do people care so much about this change?”

I’ll tell you why people care Mr Graney. They care because if like me they have had a heckler for the past 6 years and fancy (or are forced into) to change then they could simply buy a new frame to go with all their expensive components. But now if you want to buy new you are going to have to shell out about £750 on new forks and a load more on rims and tyres.

Now as my wife will attest to I am not averse to spending money on my bike and if I think It will suit my riding and genuinely offer a performance benefit then I will happily shell out (In fact i’ve chosen to do just that and eagerly await the arrival of my XX1 drive train). I do however resent the implication that I am a “hater” for questioning the necessity of this ‘new’ standard, whilst in the same breath being told that the performance benefits are marginal. This just strikes me as the fairly arrogant attitude of a man who has had the luxury of free bikes and not spending his own hard earned money on them recently. If there is a clear difference then fair enough but you have just said “we built them both and they were both great”

27.5 and 29ers: A sure sign of a bike industry that has run out of fresh ideas to sell new bikes.

Why can’t they put they’re efforts into developing something properly useful and innovative like an affordable gearbox unit?

Why can’t they put they’re efforts into developing something properly useful and innovative like an affordable gearbox unit?

My thoughts exactly. 27.5 and 29ers are money for old rope. It doesn’t bring anything to the sport that helps it evolve.

Yes there may be a benefit for racing, but only while we have a mixture of wheel sizes (if there is any actual, quantifiable benefit). Once all racers are on the same wheel size then there will be no advantage whatsoever. And that goes for racing your mates on your weekend outings.

People moan about FS reducing people skills, 29ers will have the same effect.

I’ll tell you why people care Mr Graney. They care because if like me they have had a heckler for the past 6 years and fancy (or are forced into) to change then they could simply buy a new frame to go with all their expensive components.

What about the people with older short travel bikes, should SC not go back to producing the original 4″ heckler as ‘people still have the bits’ that wont fit the long travel bolt through versions? Should all manufacturers be forced to continue making models to old standards or designs to ensure existing customers have something to buy in the future?

There are plenty of bikes out there for you to buy, just because a brand has decided to discontinue a model (which is what they have effectively done) dont get all upset.

if they only decided to discontinue a model…
why is Mr Graney so upset then…?

Deore on a Heckers???

Heckler is an entry level bike as far as SC is concerned

I’d assume a 650b Chammy is on the way which would be very tempting.

Edit: … and carbon too please Mr Royksopp.

I wouldn’t hold your breath. when I asked about a carbon Cham I was told that they see the Cham as (like the Heckler) an entry to other bikes, and they wouldn’t do a carbon version as they see the Cham as all about the “value”

26″ for value bikes, and long travel gravity bikes

650b for intermediate FS 120mm-160mm

29″ for XC hardtail and FS sub 120mm

Is how it will be from now on

I was told that they see the Cham as (like the Heckler) an entry to other bikes, and they wouldn’t do a carbon version as they see the Cham as all about the “value”

Really? I think they’ve got this wrong. The Cham has been an awesome hardtail for many years. To see it as entry to the ‘suspension’ bikes is an oversite IMO.

A carbon Cham would be brilliant and perhaps a little lot more forgiving. 🙂

NickC – wrt the Deore cranks, I clarified it was more the triple I took issue with on their AM machine. I would have seen the 2×10 SLX as a perfect match for a Heckler. ISCG tabs and a triple????

Buggered if I’m changing any of my bikes to a different wheel size just cos some 650b fanboi has been scweaming “I want! I want!” down the phone at a bike manufacturer..

I’m perfectly happy with 26 inch wheels.

I’m perfectly happy with 26 inch wheels

cool, you are not the market. It’s like saying I’m perfectly happy with my tape player in my car….It’s fine, you can play what you want, music comes out. no problem, but the market doesn’t care about you, the market wants new, cool, exciting, edge…bluetooth iphone link knows your playlists….

elliot. Cham is their cheapest frame, it’s the 924cs of the Santa Cruz line up. A carbon Cham would be awesome, but despite the many emails I sent (not kidding, it became a bit of a running joke) they aint gonna do one. I wouldn’t be surprised if this is the last version of Cham.

dantsw, I think they want the heckler to be seen as a bit “do it all” is my take on it, and most folk are still on triples (despite what you read here)

new, cool, exciting, edge

Please explain how 27.5 and 29 inch wheels are any of the above?

If you need a explanation ask any bike manufacturer how 26″ wheel bike sales are going.

Not really answered the question, has it?
Tape player vs iPhone Bluetooth isn’t a fair example. There are quantifiable advantages with the Bluetooth link, which there aren’t with 650b. This has been pushed on us by America who lap up marketing stuffs. Ask any manufacturer for UK 650b vs 26 sales.

If you need a explanation ask any bike manufacturer how 26″ wheel bike sales are going.

As stated above, the sales of the new wheels sizes are being driven by the industry, not the consumers. The consumers are just lapping up the hype.

we are a teeny tiny part of the world wide bike sales market, and if you don’t want a 650b or 29er than it’s cool, but there are people both looking for the next upgrade and new to the sport who are buying these bikes “just because”, and given the way the bikes are the new cool thing to do, they are spending wodges of cash, and they ain’t buying 26″ wheeled bikes.

The consumers are just lapping up the hype

consumers ask for bikes and people are buying the bikes the manufacturers are making, T’was ever so…

Not only are they buying them, they are clamouring for them. Have you been to a bike shop recently? try finding a 26″ bike amongst all the shiny 29ers.

Not only are they buying them, they are clamouring for them. Have you been to a bike shop recently? try finding a 26″ bike amongst all the shiny 29ers.

I’m really not sure you’re getting this. People aren’t clamouring for 650b or 29er bikes. It’s all they’re being offered. It’s not consumer driven. It’s been driven by manufacturers.

Not only are they buying them, they are clamouring for them. Have you been to a bike shop recently? try finding a 26″ bike amongst all the shiny 29ers.

Which came first: The bike industry selling them, or consumers wanting to buy them?

I will guarantee you it wasn’t the latter. Consumers only want them because they are being told they are the latest thing.

I was in a bike shop a month or so ago, when I bought my new one: Very few big-wheeled bikes to be seen.

Edit: Oops Wrecker got there first.

wrecker I wouldn’t be too sure. I think there’s a vocal “nowt wrong with 26″**, but here’s a real life example: My neighbour is an occasional biker, he’s just bought a 29er anthem, mostly as that’s what he wanted after much research, drove 100 miles to Bristol to get one…

Consumers are really going for these bikes, sorry if it doesn’t fit your view, but its true.

Mikey74, in leisure Lakes in Daventry, you’d be hard pushed to get a handful of 26″ wheeled bikes amongst the 100 or so they’ve got on the shop floor

Edit ** and I’m one of them, I will ride my Cham into the ground, and I’m already stockpiling bits for my next 26″ bike, but I can see the writing on the wall.

Mikey74, in leisure Lakes in Daventry, you’d be hard pushed to get a handful of 26″ wheeled bikes amongst the 100 or so they’ve got on the shop floor

I think you’ve inadvertently proved the point wrecker and I am trying to make: Larger wheeled bikes are the new thing the industry is pushing. There wasn’t a market there before this latest explosion of hype.

I am sure your mate has done his research, but where has he got his information from? Magazines? Bike shops? People who have already bought them? All parties interested in making sure larger wheeled bikes are seen as the latest and greatest evolution of the bicycle.

mikey74, it really doesn’t matter, it’s chicken and egg. MTB bike sales have exploded and people are buying 29ers, and they’ll buy 650b as well.

It might be that it’s all manufacturer led, but it doesn’t matter, 26″ wheels aren’t going to die, but they just won’t be centre stage any more, they’ll just be part of a larger wheel choice. Give it 5-10 years most people won’t be on 26″ bikes

What a strange discussion, of course this change is manufacture led. Just look at pretty much any industry and you’ll see new products every year. Allways better (whether it’s demonstratable or not) or with some new feature that makes last years look old. Cars, TVs, AV, coffee machines, phones the list is, well, everything.

Sorry guys, but anyone moaning about the cost of upgrading due to ancillary items well you’re just not their target market. They want to sell as many bikes as possible and whilst I’m not in the industry my guess is that frame only sales make for a small margin of sales against complete bikes. They really don’t care about you as sooner or later you’ll have to make the change anyway. Change is always painful for some.

Just get out and ride.

i love these wheel size discussions, anyone would think people had a gun held to their head.
I remember when front suspension arrived, same response, then rear, its just the evolution of the mtb. calm down people. I’ve ridden mtb’s since 1987 and loved it all, rigid, full suss, downhill bikes, now i have a fat bike and just about to order a Heckler 650b, why? simple, it better than a 26″ so why not. I’ve ridden 29 and its much faster but not as agile so 650b seems the natural next choice and can’t see any reason to stay with 26 when given the choice when choosing a new bike. if i wasn’t changing then I’d stay 26″. for now, in fact my fat bike has 26″ rims but haha measures 29″ so god I have it all. haha.

All the guys on here going on about the industry dictating what we buy its crap, manufacturers have to make what sells, if they make stuff that people don’t want they would be madness, most of them have madea few to test the water, if people go for it then make more, if not why the hell would they bother. Simple.

For me it was a matter of trying all the options, i run a shop and didn’t want to sell anything that i didn’t believe in, so like to try it all first and give an educated review. We stock 26, 650 and 29 and there is a definite swing going on and its rider led, they try each size and make up their own mind. no gun to the head. so far, 29 is winning just. 650 is still rare but will win over a 26 just because it rolls better but keeps the agility of the 26. This is the fact of the matter.
What makes things slightly tricky is the fact most of a business is wheel building so even more spokes and rims to stock AAAAARH! Progress i guess. 😆

anyone would think people had a gun held to their head.

Figuratively, they have.

just about to order a Heckler 650b, why? simple, it better than a 26″ so why not.

That’s the entire point, its not better.
I agree with much of what nickc is saying; the writing is on the wall and we will be riding 650b in 5 years. He has the reason wrong, though. We’ll be on 650b because the industry have decreed the we will be, not because we asked for it.

For me it was a matter of trying all the options, i run a shop and didn’t want to sell anything that i didn’t believe in, so like to try it all first and give an educated review. We stock 26, 650 and 29 and there is a definite swing going on and its rider led, they try each size and make up their own mind. no gun to the head. so far, 29 is winning just. 650 is still rare but will win over a 26 just because it rolls better but keeps the agility of the 26. This is the fact of the matter.

The gun to the head is shops not stocking 26er gear, the gun to the head is manufacturers not making a particular model in the 26er format, the gun to the head is all the manufacturer sponsored media spouting about how 26ers are dead and the only way forward is the bigger wheel sizes. Of course people want to buy this new stuff, because they believe the hype. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

The post above said “just get out and ride”: Well the new wheel sizes have put the emphasis firmly back on the gear and not the fun of riding.

oh dear, wish i’d stayed off here now haha.
for the record our shop sells 95% 26″ wheels, we build lots, i don’t really want to have to stock even more spokes and rims but, our customers are changing when they are looking at new bikes, we mainly stock 26″ but once they try alternatives they buy up to now 29 as a matter of choice and to just make a point, most are either first timers or the guys who don’t read the mags a lot. The regular long termers are different, they are hanging in there, so for me its customer led, they make the choice having ridden both. simple. I’m the same as i said, i didn’t buy any 29ers until i’d try one. it matters to me what i sell and i like to give proper advice and comments not dictate what they should have, Choice is good right now, god theres enough of it, travel, type of bike, blimey its a mind field but for me larger wheels are here to stay just because having ridden it i can see no reason what so ever why it shouldn’t become to new 26.
Anyway of to bed now, out on the Fatbike in the morning for a quick blast before lunch. happy chatting. 😉

This isn’t about 29ers. It’s about 650b. 29ers are sufficiently different to co exist with 26. 650b isn’t.

I have no problem with 29ers as I can see the benefits for some types of riding. I can understand that some may want an in between size.( whether this is marketing led, or an evolution). If people like them then fair enough.

Interesting that not so long ago Spesh designed, produced and sold ( in large volumes ) a downhill bike with a 24 inch rear wheel.That’s two inches smaller than normal. Only issue seemed to be less of a tyre choice.

I just hope 26 inch stuff doesn’t become obsolete.

edit…

This isn’t about 29ers. It’s about 650b. 29ers are sufficiently different to co exist with 26. 650b isn’t.

This

I can see [ though I am not interested personally] that 29 er si different

650 b is barely any difference tbh and is nothing other than industry led to sel us shit we dont need and we dont want

given the number who are “upgrading” it seems to be working

Hecklers are ace bikes. I am just pleased such simple and effective designs are still so well received.

With regards to the Pinkbike consumer hype that apparently is occuring over larger wheels, it would appear the opposite is also occuring with the gravity ones. People who’ve invested in high end dh / fr bikes, probably after much saving, only to feel that the industry now is maybe moving towards regarding their bikes as obsolete in this area.

The best manufacturers are giving their customers the option to choose their wheel size for each model rather than forcing the latest scam to recoup their R&D outlay on us.

I say does any of this really matter… Manufacturers have been forcing 26″ wheels on us for decades and no one moaned about that. It’s really simple as far as i can see. Pick a bike you like and ride it. Care not about what the “industry” is doing. Thats what i do anyhow.

given the number who are “upgrading” it seems to be working

& how pathetic is that…

I say does any of this really matter Pick a bike you like and ride it. Care not about what the “industry” is doing. Thats what i do anyhow.

it does matter because people are concerned that if they have bought (or might be about to buy) the 26″ bike they like that in a few short years they wont be able to get decent quality parts or spares to fit it, because the marketeers want us to buy a whole new bike rather than maintain or upgrade the old one, and are doing so by forcing a new incompatible standard on us on spurious claims of performance improvements.

Dabbing my toe into this debate a little bit, I think this thread, and countless others, really proves is that the UK market seems different to the continent and the US.

Perhaps it’s because we’re a more ‘eyes wide open’ culture, or maybe just that we’re Luddites.

IMO the 650b just isn’t vastly different enough for us all to think “now that’s a great idea’ and I think that’s the point most people struggle with.

*now backs out*

IMO the 650b just isn’t vastly different enough for us all to think “now that’s a great idea’ and I think that’s the point most people struggle with.

+1

thats it !!

Missed most of this thread as i dont have a Heckler…but then had a glance at it last night anyway.

You’d think it was armageddon for 26 inch wheels from reading threads like this on STW….in a mild panic i went straight over to the CRC website to see if i could still buy tyres for my 26 inch wheels, forks with a narrow 1-1/8 steerer for my cheap steel frame etc etc….to my great relief there was tons of stuff available, essentially it’s possible to build a very nice FS or hardtail out of supposedly obsolete standards.

I can relax and go back to ignoring threads like this now, the hysteria and hyperbole surrounding 29ers, 650b etc is just that….and for those of us who update our bikes less frequently than the manufacturers would like there are still loads of good parts, frames, tyres, forks etc for us to continue running our luddite bikes for some time yet, phew!