A few comments on the new Pivot thread got me thinking about new bike prices. Its not unusual to see bikes at £10k these days and that seems like an awful lot of money to me.

I know nobody is forcing you to buy a bike for £10k and there are bikes available for a fair bit less. I also know there is a lot of technology and R&D that goes into a bike but compare the Pivot price list – https://singletrackworld.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2021/08/2fa094a1-screenshot-165.png to this for example – https://bikes.suzuki.co.uk/bikes/

So what to we think, is it a case of what the market will tolerate or is there something else going on?

How many bikes do Pivot make a year?

How many do Suzuki make?

I forget where now, but I remember seeing a stat where on of the big MC makers was making 3 times the profit of Specialized, in the 100s of millions.

There’s always the argument that a 15k carbon Pivot with live valve suspension is the absolute top end of race bikes. But it’s hard not to argue something similar for the Hayabusa, in terms of it being top end.

You can buy an MTB for £400 or you can buy an MTB for £15k. They are both MTBs.

If you are going to compare an MTB to a motorbike, car or whatever then at least pick more equivalent examples.
A £400 mass produced MTB is same level as a Dacia Sandero which is £8K. Not really the same price are they…

4 GCN presenters out on a ride is considerable more expensive than driving 😉

But it’s hard not to argue something similar for the Hayabusa, in terms of it being top end.

I dont know. I would expect that Pivot to be pretty much pro grade whereas if you want a pro grade gp motorbike it would be rather more expensive than the one you can buy off the shelf.

For me, it’s the depreciation from your £15k outlay that hurts the most.

Technology is moving so quickly at the moment that in 5-10 years, your £15k bike with mega-super-plus-boost spacing may well be obsolete from a technology standpoint, significantly reducing the ‘value’.

Obviously this isn’t a problem if you’ll be keeping the bike long-term/forever, but how many of us actually do that with high end race bikes?

I also know there is a lot of technology and R&D that goes into a bike but compare the Pivot price list

A lot of technology? LOL, its a pedal bike, it doesn’t have to pass crash, emissions and the durability testing is pathetic in comparison (see the latest enduro and the number of cracked headtubes, plus the rear tension rods snapping).

People arn’t dropping 10k on a new bike, its £200 a month. Lots of 0% credit about, so the bike companies take advantage and tear the ass out of it.

If they want to charge high prices, I’d be expecting a gold plated warranty and support package.

Aren’t the 15k models just meant to draw you in then buy the mid range model , how many s-works stumpjumpers are sold compared to the mid range standard stumpjumper for example .

I don’t think it’s an issue as such , as long as companies like bird , privateer , YT exist although I think it was Ben from bird made a point on here last time this was discussed about how it could put off new riders , if someone thinking of getting their first mtb looks online and sees 15k bikes they get put off as they think their 3k budget will only get them something rubbish .

Obviously this isn’t a problem if you’ll be keeping the bike long-term/forever, but how many of us actually do that with high end race bikes?

You only have to look at race bikes from 10 years ago. Would you want to compete* on that? Seriously uncompetitive and downright dangerous in some cases.

*I think a 2011 DH bike would be fun to ride recrationally in the alps.

SirHC

(see the latest enduro and the number of cracked headtubes, plus the rear tension rods snapping).

I was browsing yesterday, and noticed that the Enduro has a 109kg weight limit for rider + gear

But haven’t motorbikes almost doubled in price in the last 15 years, everything is getting more expensive and not always in line with inflation.

I thought bikes were expensive but go look at fancy coffee machines, that seems silly to me

i think its all part of perception too. We love bikes and whilst £10-15k is a lot of money for a pedal bike, it almost feels achievable for someone with a bit of disposable income, whether that be by finance or blowing your savings.

So even tho it is ‘almost’ atainable, it feels a bit unfair and/or crazy to think a bike can cost more than a car/motorbike/boat/caravan etc.

But if we apply the same apples to apples in other areas of life… i like cars, i have a very modest Golf R, which wasnt Dacia cheap, but its a far cry from a Porsche, Ferrari, Lambo and beyond. But i feel no disappointment or jealousy towards more expensive cars or the manufacturers for releasing cars that cost many times the cost of my Golf. Yet with MTB brands, i feel a bit put out that i cant afford or am not willing to spend that much on a Pivot/Yeti/Whatever…. Not that it keeps me up at night!

If that makes any sort of sense?!

prices are either through the roof or the spec is pish for the cash.

It’s going to get a lot worse before it gets better, shipping prices are insane ATM, not a huge deal for £15K super bikes but a very big deal for any bulky stuff at the cheaper end of the scale, bikes, wheels, frames etc that has to come from the Far East.

An equivalent level MX / SX bike would be in the region of $80k according to the official Supercross site.

As said above the amount you will lose on the MTB compared to the Motorbike is scary.KTM 200cc Enduro bike in 2005 was £4300 the 2022 150cc is £8500 a lot has changed on the two in that time you buy a Beta alp 200cc it is only £300 more than 2008 but the bike is the same different colour scheme.

To be honest I have been so happy with my Ibis Mojo HD4 abs hadn’t ridden so much in the last 18 months that I hadn’t kept track of bike pricing.  But now I’m starting to consider changing my bike (it’s coming up 3 years old) I was blown away by the pricing…yes I get global pandemic, brexit, blow up in participation.  But even so!  I guess the flip side is my bike is probably worth ‘more’ second hand? I have been looking at Ebikes lately and most are either sold out, mad money or terrible spec…who the hell buys a £6k bike with rock shox 35’s on?

Anyway, I got my eye on the virus ebike now.  I fancied a Trek Rail, but I’m not paying £6500 when I can get a similar spec bike for £4500.

15K would get you a pretty trick Enduro motorbike.

9.5K for say a new KTM 350EXC-F or a Husky FE350

Then £5.5K for a pipe, remap/ECU and some really nice suspension. Might even have enough for some fancy wheels.

This comes up a lot.

Basically my sense is that bikes are basically a fashion good, wherein exclusivity is for some people part of the attraction.

Another background issue is flat wages for middle class people combined with inflation and high inequality.

I’m a fairly senior teacher and our wages have had about a 20% real terms cut since 2010. Promotion has helped me a bit, but I’d be on at least 10k more if public sector wages had kept track with inflation / we hadn’t been stuffed on pensions.

I don’t know why, but something seems wrong when a high end bicycle costs more than someone’s entire annual salary if they are on minimum wage.

15k bikes help normalise 7 and 8k bikes which would have been the upper limit a few years ago but now look like good VFM compared to the full factory version.

What’s interesting about the pricing of an mtb vs an m/c, or a car, for that matter, is that the bulk of the wholesale cost of most mtb’s is determined by the price of third party components, which by and large are also available on the open market. Effectively, the manufacturer supplies a frame, then hangs bought in stuff off of it.

It’s why we have so many brands, can’t afford a pivot, there’s a lot of companies doing similar for a lot less, you want a DW link, then a Ripmo AF can be had for 3.2k, you can pick up a giant reign with similar suspension for 4k as well.

There are many sub-markets within the market, some can put down 15k on a bike without much worry, others have to save for a long time to get a 1k bike, same with everything, we see lots of threads about expensive stuff, such as VW campers or ford vans, 40-50k on one of those is madness to me, but sensible to others, because we have different priorities, hobbies and usage.

Like others have said, you are comparing top end mountain bikes with run of the mill motorbikes, even a hayabusa is fairly middle of the road(ish) albeit a very fast road.

That 15k for a top end pivot, is like the Ducati 1299 Panigale R Final Edition of the mountain bike world, that Ducati comes in a smidge under £35k.

“ I don’t know why, but something seems wrong when a high end bicycle costs more than someone’s entire annual salary if they are on minimum wage.”

Did you know that some cars cost more than a house? And that’s in a world where house prices have risen far faster than salaries.

Pivot bikes have always been amongst the most expensive. Cheaper bikes are available.

This sport/hobby is the new golf. £15k wonder bikes to make a basic spec £7k look normal. **** off.

I’d rather stick a pair of £100boots on my feet and walk over the hills instead.

In the 90s people used to spend £5k on a tricked-out Pace or GT Zaskar so nothings really changed.

Spinergy wheels didn’t come cheap! 🙂

All I know is that I’m not in the market for a new MTB but I am doing motorbike lessons and trying to decide what I want as a first bike.

I know there are complex economics involved and they aren’t directly comparable but my stupid monkey brain sees mid-range Specialized for £7400 which will be wrecked in a year and a Yamaha WR250f, brand new on the road for £7700. I don’t care about the difference in the manufacturers margins I want the best ride for the money.

The rocketing price of MTB’s and e-bikes is making all kind of used Triumph’s and Ducati Scramblers etc. look like a relative bargain.

RustyNissanPrairie
Full Member
This sport/hobby is the new golf. £15k wonder bikes to make a basic spec £7k look normal. **** off.

I’d rather stick a pair of £100boots on my feet and walk over the hills instead.

Posted 3 minutes ago

You’d have to go that extra bit to spend more than 2k on a set of clubs, 2.5k with the extra kit, golf is relatively cheap in comparison to bikes, as for membership costs, probably the same i spend on fuel, passes, etc in a year for biking!

I do miss golf though :o(

as for membership costs, probably the same i spend on fuel, passes, etc in a year for biking!

based on my friends who golf… you can either do it cheap, become a member of a local reasonable course, which I guess is the equivalent of the “I only ride from my back door” demographic.

Or, you can travel the country (or globe) on your weekends or holidays, seeking out the best (or most interesting for your ability, not necessarily world class difficulty) courses, sometimes paying paying hundreds a round. You can also enter tournaments you have no chance of winning, just to get to ride with/against some different people. If you are spending a noticable amount on fuel, and buying passes and race entries, you are probably more this demographic.

The big question I have is what happens to these bikes when the orginal owners what to sell them? Do they take a massive bath?

Ignoring the £15k bikes for a minute and focussing on the £8k variety, which are not exactly uncommon. I’m assuming that when bought new it’s being put on credit. If the orginal owner wants to sell it 18 months later for (say) £5.5k, who’s going to be dropping that sort of cash-money on a second hand bike with no warranty?

If the orginal owner wants to sell it 18 months later for (say) £5.5k, who’s going to be dropping that sort of cash-money on a second hand bike with no warranty?

A quick look on eBay shows a fair few sold recently for £4k+.

Talking of golf…. of course, at the high end it can be VERY expensive.I caddied for a while when I retired at Queenwood in Surrey. Reported joining fee is in excess of £200,000.

Lots of pros are members and lots of “names”.

The warranty point is also a complete joke.  I have never understood how manufacturers can hide behind the ‘first owner’ for blatant manufacturing faults. Even more so now bike prices are exploding.  It’s why Specialized and other who have embraced the fact that with high end price tags comes the need for proper residual and used market..so offer a form of transferable warranty. As such used prices stay high and folk who like the latest colours can change every year…thus driving the new bike market!

I will be buying a new bike this side of a Christmas, it will likely be a budget blowing amount of money.  Perhaps I expect too much, the perils of direct sales mean local shops stocking a range of what I’m after are non existent.  Demo days…I have tried but demoing a bike is hard work now…. I’m actually worn out thinking about the whole process 😂

Reported joining fee is in excess of £200,000.

Lots of pros are members and lots of “names”.

and therin lies the difference.

I had Luca Shaw behind me in the lift queue last year in morzine, got to spend the ride up examining the underside of a V10. Cost of entry ~120 for a week of lift passes.

based on my friends who golf… you can either do it cheap, become a member of a local reasonable course, which I guess is the equivalent of the “I only ride from my back door” demographic.

You can do most things cheap, and I tend to do that!
I used to play golf with a set of second hand clubs that cost me £60. I played on cheap courses and I enjoyed myself. At no time was my crap playing down to the cheap clubs
I have cycled a lot over the 20 years and never had a bike that cost more than £1,000 and currently my only bike is worth about £300. Again, at no time is my slowness down to the cheap bike.

Reported joining fee is in excess of £200,000.

That’s a chuffing HOUSE! The fact that people can afford that to join a club where they smack a ball about when many of their staff can’t afford to rent a flat is just plain wrong

I got talking to an American guy about 15 years ago who had a boutique bike company – frames welded in the Czech republic by his partner. He was charging about $1000 for a hardtail frame. He reckoned that Giant could produce an aluminium frame for about $50 because of their economy of scale. That wasn’t his market, profit margins are very slim on low-end stuff so he targeted the high-end where he could make money from a low sales volume.

The same goes with components. Shimano can churn out Tourney groupsets for a fraction of the price of a Deore, let alone XTR. So, you can buy a cheap commuter bike that’s made in Viet Nam or China and will get you round town, but it’ll be heavy and slow. Any component you look at could be improved, but it’ll require more expensive materials and manufacturing technology, and improving a single component won’t make much difference so you have to upgrade every single part to see much improvement. There is no end to this process, there is always some new material or technology that will make a tiny difference if you are willing to pay for it. A Giant Talon with Judy forks is listed at £729, that’s actually a pretty decent bike. For £1,999, you can get a Stance 29 1, which is plenty good enough for what most people do. If you set an F1 engineering team to develop an MTB from scratch with no compromise due to cost, you’d end up with a bike costing six figures.

So, yes, there are still modestly priced, decent bikes if you ignore the flashy stuff at the top end of the range.

In the 90s people used to spend £5k on a tricked-out Pace

are you sure? My bespoke spec RC200F3 was more like £1,600 and though it wasn’t all American exotica like Ringle, Cooks and Grafton I think you’d struggle to have spent an extra £3.4k without gold plating it