(When I say nervous, that refers to me as much as the bike…)

I have an xc hard tail (Rockrider 8 XC, circa 7 yrs old). It is designed for a 100mm fork (although it now sits at 115mm) and looks like it has a steep fork angle.

My full susser is out of action and I got the hardtail out for a ride. Feels awful, apart from ease of climbing. It is not the fact that it has no rear suspension that bothers me, just the awful feeling of being too far forward and having your shoulders close together. I don’t know how people (including me) used to do it – I think I have become old and soft.

Is there any point changing the stem/bars to improve on this, or will I just mess up the handling? The stem is a 100mm riser, bar is a 690mm flat bar.

Shorter stem, wider bars will help DH, but make it feel like crap uphill.
I’ve got 90mm stem, 720mm 10mm rise bars & 100mm travel on my xc hard tail. A mate has the same frame with 120mm forks, 50mm stem & 740/20mm bars & it’s like a comedy act watching him trying to ride anything steep (climb)

Your mate just needs to improve his technique, shorter stems make less of a difference than you might think on climbs especially when combined with nice wide bars.

Yep shorter wider may have a decent positive impact. Running 780/50mm and it’s a little harder but not comedy to climb steep/tech.

I’ve run narrow/steep and the bike felt unpredictable in some situations with the front almost tucking under at some points, made it very “engaging” to ride…

Thanks all for the input. I can’t stand the thought of another twitchy ride again, so I will try and get some bars and a stem to try.

I am not sure how I out up with it for so long. The original bar and stem were even narrower and longer…

I have 740mm, 50mm stem and 120mm had no problem climbing after coming from 690/90/100. I think the wide bars actually help open up the chest.

Shorter stems will make it more twitchy unless it had the slack head angle and long top tube to go with it.

By the sounds of it you just need to get used to riding the bike again. My bikes are still 110mm stems and 700mm bars, I like being able to flick the bike arround rather than the overly stable feeling on a lot of trail bikes.

that refers to me as much as the bike…)

Here lies the bulk of your problem.

Adding a 5mm headset spacer can make a world of difference. Shorter stem (100-90mm) and wider bars will probably help. If it were me, I’d be making small changes rather than suddenly swapping a 110mm baguette for a stumpy 50mm stem.

Is it not just the geometry differences making the hardtail feel sketchy? An old-ish XC hardtail will feel miles away from even a slack trail hardtail, never mind a FS.

just a different bike. if you stuck with it you’d get used to it. I jump between bikes made in 93, 2010 and 2014 and they do all feel different.

Is 690 a narrow bar now then?

yes.

If you can’t pick up WiFi with your handlebars then they’re too narrow.

First thing I would do is check there is no play in axles and the fork is set up right and the controls are set up right – ie brake levers not too vertical, stack height right etc.

Then look at new stem/bar or simply a new frame (2nd hand).

Also is the frame the right size? Saddle too high while descending etc etc.

Sometimes simple things can sort it, sometimes it’s best to give up and start fresh

I’d go for slightly shorther stem – 70mm and slightly wider bar max 40mm wider than you’ve got, you can add a lot of confidence by running good compound modern (I’m guess a 7 year old HT has some older tyres) tyres as well. If you’re flush tubeless wheels with good tyres can also add confidence

Thanks for the feedback all.

Whilst I know they will always feel different, I am trying to make the hard tail more mellow and enjoyable to ride. Particularly I am not keen in hanging over the front of the bike so much.

Whilst I know geometry is not something you can completely change with just a new bar/stem combo, I rode a Whyte with a wide pair of bars and instantly feel I gelled with the bike.

I can’t hope for that, but I would like less of the puckered bum and more of the relaxed feel of the full susser, although I can never expect them to feel the same.

A cheap alu bar and stem isn’t a big investment, try a 70mm stem with 740mm wide bars. If you still don’t like it – save up for a new frame.

Tom, that is what I am going to try.

I think 100mm to 70mm is a good compromise and hopefully a 740mm bar will still fit between some trees.

I don’t need an excuse to buy a frame, as I have got plenty of ‘rational’ floating around in my head to back it up already…

£20 for a 760mm bar…
http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/HBELGUANB/el-guapo-ancho-b-handlebar
Cheap enough for trying?

Yeah, or try the 760mm bar above and cut it down as appropriate.

My advice is that if you want a nice fully built trail hardtail, go for a Whyte 901.

I built up and old ( 96 I think ) steel Rockhopper last year, put a 100mm Vanilla fork on it, 680 bars and a 90mm stem, thinking it would be a great bike to hoon round the woods on, now and then and to just ride the local towpath and go to the pub.

It is fine on the towpath or to the pub and back.

this might have been done before, but it could be worth sticking at it a little longer. I’ve been learning to love a 1990 rigid Bontrager. Felt a bit rickety and unstable to start with, but you adapt and learn and add some new vocabulary to your body language, and you start to enjoy the ride in a different way.

Same argument people use when they say how much they’ve enjoyed riding CX bikes as a change from their usual mtb.

There are obviously limits to the terrain in which you can do this sensibly, but they’re on the pretty steep and rocky end of things in my experience.

It’s fair to say that the geometry of the Rockhipper is very close to that of the old Carrera hardtail I was riding quite happily round the woods and on proper big all dayers in Wales and Scotland , before going full suss and all ‘trailised’ in geometry terms in about 08.
Oh how things change.

I also really notice the fact that when i swap to my HT (ok a relatively long travel HT at 150mm) hit something hard or techy and the head angle gets steeper because there is no rear suspension to compress. On the full bouncer, you can smash into stuff and the steering stays calm as the whole bike sags, where as i have to make a conscious effort to really smooth my bar inputs in such circumstances on the HT, with a firm but not death, grip!

What position are your brakes in?

If they point too far down toward the ground they tend to make you feel too far forward, in fear of going OTB.

Angle them back a bit and it will put your wrists down behind your bars a bit more and may help you feel more confident.

I still ride a 1993 steel kona on p2’s with a mahoosive stem and skinny bars. feels great, you adjust how you ride obviously but it’s still fun.

It’s good to remind yourself what you used to get about on from time to time. You start appreciating things like modern alivio cranks and it saves you a fortune! I’ve got a 3lb bag of rice here too which keeps me from being too bothered about 27 vs 30lb bikes when I pick it up 🙂

I also really notice the fact that when i swap to my HT (ok a relatively long travel HT at 150mm) hit something hard or techy and the head angle gets steeper because there is no rear suspension to compress. On the full bouncer, you can smash into stuff and the steering stays calm as the whole bike sags, where as i have to make a conscious effort to really smooth my bar inputs in such circumstances on the HT, with a firm but not death, grip!

I actually think the way to go on trail hardtails is to drop down to 120/130mm forks, lower the front end for climbing and then run a head angle that’s kicked out to 65/64 degrees. What I’d really like to get my hands on are some of the Pike lowers from a Giant Reign with the 46mm offset to offset the slack head angle a bit.

This would keep the bike acceptably slack when banging through steep rough stuff.