[Closed] Natures Anti-depressant?

St Johns Wort, plant, go buy some 300mg tablets from Asda and take 2 a day for a week.

vervaine leaves - make into a tea. it has a lovely aroma

Exercise! Force yourself out on the bike 🙂

regular exercise is clinically proven to be as effective as any pills - but isn't pushed as no one from the fitness industry takes GP's on Caribbean cruises

everyone else is just pretending to be cheerful

Exercise.

I know it can be extremely hard to get out the door when feeling low, but even a 30 minute cycle around town will perk you up. Try jogging too - less time and faff than cycling so you could get a good sweat going in 20 minutes.

[url= http://www.naturalnews.com/026557_depression_SSRI_St_Johns_Wort.html ]St John's Wort better than medication[/url]

Exercise is good obviously, but from personal experience you really can't be arsed exercising until you get out of the rut, which takes something else.

St Johns Wort

isn't it one of theose homeopathic things ? In any case, it's actually poisonous. IMO the best way to escape depression is to fix your broken thinking processes as enabled by Cognitive Behaviour Therapy. Medicines are ony a stopgap measure, and merely serve to reinforce a dependency mindset.

Rhodiola seems to work for me. Much more positive outlook when I take some.

I'm sorry you're feeling down. You are not alone.

Is there any practical reason why you feel down? Are you ill? Might it be an idea to get that checked out?

Are you having money difficulties? Is there someone you could talk to about that?

Riding your bike would cheer you up, but as coffeeking says, once you're down it's hard to get any momentum going. Could you perhaps book yourself onto a race in the New Year so you have something to focus on and look forward to?

CBT, as simonfbarnes says, is a good way to fix broken thinking, your GP could refer you, but usually there is a long waiting list, or there are private therapists which you could source yourself but will probably cost more.

Gary Larsen's Far Side cartoons make me laugh. So do Terry Pratchett's books.

Keep a hold, the shortest day is nearly here, and then it's back upwards towards the light.

x

isn't it one of theose homeopathic things ? In any case, it's actually poisonous. IMO the best way to escape depression is to fix your broken thinking processes as enabled by Cognitive Behaviour Therapy. Medicines are ony a stopgap measure, and merely serve to reinforce a dependency mindset.

Not quite. St John's wort isn't homeopathic in the sense of low concentration yadda, yadda. It is a more natural remedy than some of the chemical formulas. Yes it is poisonous, but so is water in high enough doses...

Carl YGM (in a minute or so!)

I'm surprised nobody has prescribed you a twice-daily dose of MTFU yet.

Only kidding, you've got to laugh, eh?

My two cents: You say you don't want to end up on chemicals, but any "alternative" remedies you take are still chemicals, just ones that haven't been medically recognised to do anything.

Either go to the doctor, or take the completely natural approach recommended by most above. Ride your bike, take up gardening, maybe even get a dog.

And not everyone else is as cheerful as they make out/you think anyway.

this sense of gloom and total lack of energy I am feeling.

.... all I want to do is crawl in a box and turn off the lights .....

If it's any help, I feel very similar.

Part of the problem for me is that I don't know what it is I'm so glum about. I have a lot of reson to be positive but am finding it very difficult.

5-HTP from Holland and Barrett

Helps with seratonin production which will help with your gloomy mood

5-HTP from Holland and Barrett

Helps with seratonin production which will help with your gloomy mood

I know what you've been doing.

😉

I got some horrible depression for a while after my divorce. Couldn't lift myself out of it. I went off for long walks over the hills regardless of the weather as often as I could and then after that mtb riding everywhere.

Just getting that buzz, natural high from physical exercise on a regular basis did it for me. I'd previously been down the medication route, it's just a quick fix. Whatever you do don't try to cheer yourself up with beer, it really mixes badly with depression.

Book yourself in on mtb holiday somewhere warm and friendly I'd say, give yourself something to look forward to. 🙂

Sunshine?

I'm feeling a bit gloomy as well. Hardly surprising as I've had the annis horribilis that even the queen wouldn't have traded for: five funerals (all close friends or family); £25k loss on selling a house; almost made bankrupt by tax office; three car crashes; business problems. Start to feel a bit sorry for myself then I remember I've got a wife and 3 kids who love me and a nice house in a nice area and I can get out and ride my bike or walk my dogs whenever I want almost.

Might try that St John Wors anyway!

As someone who tried to cheer himself up with booze this weekend i can heartily agree with the idea of leaving it well alone!

On another note, how do you differentiate 'tween depression & merely being fed up?

Helps with seratonin production which will help with your gloomy mood

sounds good but in practice is hopelessly simplistic. Seratonin is used in numerous systems within the body, so even if you could just add more in the hope of improving your mood all sorts of other things would go wrong!

Exercise.

I know that the way i currently feel is effectively an up and down version of depression (Friday, it was serious, today is better).

I saw the effects of prescribed meds on Mrs North last year. they worked, but plenty of of side effects I'm not prepared to go through yet (which also tells me I'm not in the same place she was).

So, I ride. Tuesday night, on the road under the streetlights, desperately trying to hol my mates wheel. Thursday, at the track. Saturday - 50 mile chaingang. Sunday, 50-80 mile tempo ride.

It is the only thing - other than Mrs North - keeping me sane and making me get up in the morning.

By god my legs ache though..!

Exercise, and in a larger sense, just do stuff. Set yourself targets that you know you can achieve, arrange to do things with friends, tell them how you feel rather than hiding away. As a last resort, CBT is meant to be very effective although you may need to be patient to get a referral.

Tortoiseofdoom - maybe your name doesn't help? 😉

I think that's it - I can't pin it on any one thing. I'm just in a rut with family and work stuff. I haven't been on a bike for months, putting on weight .... (don't even want to think about that one). and don't start me on Christmas .....

Yep, exercise is always a good idea but it's always a good idea for tomorrow.... Jogging? Hahahaha - that has made me laugh - I can't run because of an injury - all impact stuff is out. Has to be the bike ..... It's cold, wet and dark. Ummmmm sounds encouraging .....

I do have some St John's Wort hidden somewhere - bought some a year or so again and wife told me to stop being so stupid and not to take the stuff - that helped my attitude NOT! I'll have to MTFU and tell her I WILL give it a go ....

Never have liked this time of year - best thing about January is that Christmas is 12 months away .....

Are the Vervain leaves easily attainable and in a teabag format?

Thanks for the suggestions all.

Anyone got any links to exersize benefits?

Has to be the bike ..... It's cold, wet and dark. Ummmmm sounds encouraging .....

Get your lights on, don your [url= ]grapple pants[/url], and get out there. Even if it's horrible at the time (which it often isn't) you'll feel better for doing it. 🙂

Xmas is a bad time for those of us with depression.

Even those who 'should' be happy (lovely family, good job, no financial woes etc) begin feeling oppressed by the season. There's so much emphasis/societal pressure to enjoy the holiday that the very fact you think everyone else is happy makes you even worse.
Not sure what the solution is - i suspect it's different for everyone.
For me a job would be a start, although i suspect mine goes deeper than that. Perhaps actually having a family life is what i crave?

I am normally a pretty "up" kind of person however both my parents died of pretty nasty cancers in the same year 2007 which I must admit somewhat took the bounce out of my bungee.

I went on the pills for a few months and it worked well, gave me a base to work from, didn't need counselling in the end just excercised lots, ate well ( a bit too well infact) and tried to stay very busy.

I have learned one thing from it all, the busier I am the happier I am. I'm one of those people who gets very bored very quickly and then my mind tends to wander to the melancholy.

Do stuff!! And don't fear the pills they work as a stop gap.

CBT can be self taught from a book. I fixed myself in 2 weeks after 3 decades of depression 🙂

The thing about depression is that it makes otherwise easy seeming activities into complete trials. And then the black dog whispers "don't do it, just stay in bed". And you do, feeling worse and worse.

There are, I find, tiny windows of opportunity when the black dog isn't paying attention. Grab those and run off grinning.

If I had to get togged up to go MTBing, I probably wouldn't, but I ride mostly on the road, and so it's easier to ride from the front door.

Most of all, though, Mrs North understands why I need to ride (or at least, she understands this reason - there are so many more I can't hope to explain to her), and so has been understanding about me being out until lunchtime on each of Sat and Sun. And Tues and Thurs evenings (though I'm back by 8.30, so it's not late).

Try sniffing [url= http://www.tlcinabottle.co.uk/may_chang.html ]May Chang[/url] essential oil. It smells just like sherbert lemons, and makes me feel instantly cheerful

And has no-one mentioned CHOCOLATE yet???

CBT from a book? Which one SFB?

In my experience you have to force yourself to exercise for at least 2 weeks. I had to leave my running things by the bed, and make a decision to do it, no matter what the weather or how I 'felt'. Leave feelings out of any decision as they're unreliable and pretty much irrelevant. Act the way you would if you weren't depressed and keep doing it.

I had to leave my running things by the bed, and make a decision to do it, no matter what the weather or how I 'felt'.

Good advice.

I know that making life changes is not done in one large leap - small steps are the road to recovery. Doing things like this are part of the small steps, and easier to achieve.

If you can possibly afford it then I suggest going to see a qualified therapist. I had similar problems to the ones described here a couple of years ago and it still comes back every once in a while. My wife made me go and see someone about it, I went about 6 or 7 times and it cost me about £50 per visit for 1½ hours each time and it helped enormously.
If you can't manage that, then find someone to talk to about it all totally seperate from your normal situation, not in the pub or at home, but go out walk, bike, sit in a cafe or whatever and open up a bit. The problems are probably nothing too great to overcome when you look at them rationally, but sometimes you need to state all the problems to someone to realise that they aren't that great.
Exercise is good, drugs probably work, but they are treating the symptoms, you need to work on the cuase.
Good luck with it 🙂

Exercies and keeping busy - focus on something you enjoy, like building up a bike, reading books, or planning a holiday (I'm doing all three). 😆

Would love to build up a bike but without a job i can't afford to.

My commuter bike needs a new drive train but i want to fit my Hope Mini's to it. This means new wheels, new fork plus the new crankset/chain/cassette/cables etc.

Haven't got the cash for all that i'm afraid, have found some disc-compatible wheels on E-bay for £50 but the fork is taking some finding.
Even a Kona Project 2 fork is too expensive plus being approx. 30-40mm too tall as well.
What fork for short-arse commuter bike??? 🙂

Muddydwarf, last time I looked there were a few P2-style rigid forks on eBay from Genesis i0s which should fit the bill.

SFB. SSRIs ( selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors - prozac and the like)do work in the sense that they lift mood. They are not a cure but a treatment.

St Johns wort is an SSRI.

Talking therapies of different sorts work well - as either a treatment or a cure but no one type is the panacea.

to go back to the OP - is it SAD - seasonal affective disorder from lack of sunlight?

The first thing I would suggest is exercise - it r3eally is the single best thing. Works on multiple levels. It increases serotonin levles, you also get endorphin release and you feel fitter thus improving self image.

If we accept that depression is a real thing, are you better off self medicating with an unlicensed, unregulated, over the counter substance, or going to see someone who's job it is to assess people who are ill and prescribe medicine accordingly?

You wouldn't go to a butcher to see about having your appendix out, right?

If depression is real, treat it like it's important....

Yeah - need the exercise! I know.....

If you're not happy with the idea of taking anti-depressants via the Dr, I'd also steer clear of stuff like St Johns wort. It does work for some people but clinical trials are all over the place, and the stuff you get from your local health food shop probably isn't going to be as pure as you'd want it to be.

Stick with the excercise ideas. What helped me was when I was having a positive day, I sat down and make a list of the stuff I [i]used [/i]to enjoy and stuck it to the fridge. When I wasn't feeling so low I'd look at the list and choose something to do. The list wasn't specific and was mostly "bike","go to the zoo","take photos","cinema" type stuff. I found that if I had a list to choose from, I didn't have to motivate myself to come up with something to do, and could use that motiviation I hadn't used to get my arse out of the door.

Good luck with it all

OP: The people you meet are cheerful [u]because[/u] they are pleased to see [u]you[/u].

Naturally prouced beer from the ale springs of New Guinea. It's a secret that the owners have been trying to keep for years but a nutty (with a hint of apple) 5% real ale flows from underground geysers and settles in the mountain tarns where young maidens bathe and moisturise in it's magical caress. It's the best anti-depressant known to man.[1]

[1] This is a joke, beer does not make you happy.

SFB. SSRIs ( selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors - prozac and the like)do work in the sense that they lift mood.

I understand the concept, and when I took them I stopped wanting to kill myself. In fact I stopped wanting anything at all, including being able to pee, but didn't care.

CBT from a book? Which one SFB?

[url= http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Lb%2BMkXQML._SL500_AA240_.jp g" target="_blank">http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Lb%2BMkXQML._SL500_AA240_.jp g"/> [/img][/url]

+1 for sunshine. I know that's what I need.

Getting out on the bike... or having sex... or sex on [never with] the bike.

OP: The people you meet are cheerful because they are pleased to see you.

Awww!

Your not alone mate everyone gets the blues at some point. I'd say the exercise thing is the best idea, but the thing that cheers me the most no matter what....Is my dog's wagging tail everytime i come home.

Dog walking, Biking, and maybe a chat with friends are the answers.

Take care man.

+1 for sunshine. I know that's what I need.

I think sunshine lifts everyone's mood, at least in this country due to its rarity, but relying on that is a recipe for misery as it's not dependable. Far better to learn to enjoy all weathers 🙂

If depression is real, treat it like it's important....

by all means, but don't assume thought patterns can be corrected by a medicine!

[i]by all means, but don't assume thought patterns can be corrected by a medicine![/i]

Don't assume that they can't...

More Sh!t from SFB.

SAD is not about sunshine - its about light.

Not all depression is about disordered thought patterns

A combination of CBT, Lithium, AA, and work saved my sister.

More Sh!t from SFB.
SAD is not about sunshine - its about light.

so what ? You can either chose to be dependent on the quality of the light available, or do something about it. My mum has always had SAD and found the book quite effective.

Not all depression is about disordered thought patterns

so I believe, but I can only talk about what I know. What percentage of depressives are resistant to CBT ? The point is, it's worth trying, given that it can be so quick, and it isn't mutually exclusive to drug treatment

A free online CBT gym:
http://moodgym.anu.edu.au/welcome

I wish people would get their head around the difference between "Homeopathy" and "Herbalism"/"Herbal Remedies".

Homeopathy is IMHO hogwash and is the theory that highly dilute (to the point of there being no detectable level of the supposedly active compound) solutions of plant compounds can cure illnesses that cause similar symptoms, so for vomiting, a highly dilute solution of a plant chemical that causes vomiting is supposed to cure you.

Herbal medicine is based on the use of medicines made from plants and plant extracts to cure your illness. A lot of the modern medicines originate from anicent herbal remedies. Aspirin, for example, was found to be the active chemical contained in the bark of Willow, which various cultures used to chew to alleviate aches and pains. Digitalis, used in heart medicines is derived from the Foxglove. Just because something is derived from plants it doesn't mean it is 'safe' or less harmful than a doctor's 'medicine'. Often the herbal remedies are not as pure or the dosages not as rigourously controlled as with 'medicine' prescribed by a doctor.

A combination of medicine and lifestyle change of some sort is usually the best cure for most things.

Oh, and depression is absolutely and utterly different from feeling "a bit fed up". If you have a true depression you will have physical symptoms, such as reduced or increased appetite, sleep disturbance (sleeping more or less than is usual for you), mood changes such as feeling extremely low, irritable, angry, hopeless, helpless, anxious etc. The list goes on.

In fact, here you go, here are the diagnostic criteria:

Five (or more) of the following symptoms have been present during the same 2-week period and represent a change from previous functioning; at least one of the symptoms is either (1) depressed mood or (2) loss of interest or pleasure.

1)depressed mood most of the day, nearly every day, as indicated by either subjective report (e.g., feels sad or empty) or observation made by others (e.g., appears tearful). Note: In children and adolescents, can be irritable mood.

2)markedly diminished interest or pleasure in all, or almost all, activities most of the day, nearly every day (as indicated by either subjective report or observation made by others)

3)significant weight loss when not dieting or weight gain (e.g., a change of more than 5% of body weight in a month), a decrease or increase in appetite nearly every day. Note: In children, consider failure to make weight gains.

4)insomnia or hypersomnia nearly every day

5)psychomotor agitation or retardation nearly every day (observable by others, not merely subjective feeling of restlessness or being slowed down)

6)fatigue or loss of energy nearly every day

7)feelings of worthlessness or inappropriate guilt (which may be delusional) nearly every day (not merely self-reproach or guilt about being sick)

8)diminished ability to think or concentrate, or indecisiveness, nearly every day (either by subjective account or as observed by others)

9)recurrent thoughts of death (not just fear of dying), recurrent suicidal ideation without a specific plan, or a suicide attempt or a specific plan for committing suicide

If it only happens in the winter, it could well be SAD. Try getting as much daylight into you as possible, and/or think about a light box. There's lots of advice around about "normal" foods (such as bananas and chocolate) which help seratonin production. And just get out on the bike: I rode for two hours in the rain this morning and loved it. At least half of my recent rides have involved rain: it really doesn't matter. Try to work out some routes which are less muddy/more sheltered, gradually putting together drier sections until you have a workable ride and a sense of achievemant to go with it. I can get pretty low in the winter (with no real justification) but a ride always helps. It's never as bad out as it looks! 😆

Mrs S bought be a Lumi light alarm clock for the winter months. I think it has some benefit (whether real or placebo). It certainly feels nicer waking up to the growing glow of a warm light in the room, rather than t a screeching alarm clock and the pitch black outside.

See another GP and don't buy any medication recommended here without research e.g. 5HT has some nasty effects too.

I suffer from SAD and found exercise helps and getting some frsh air/light before work.

If you have a true depression you will have physical symptoms, such as reduced or increased appetite, sleep disturbance (sleeping more or less than is usual for you), mood changes such as feeling extremely low, irritable, angry, hopeless, helpless, anxious etc. The list goes on.

excuse me but surely mood is not physical ? I never had any physical symptoms and had perfect appetite and sleep throughout, just 1, 7, 8 & 9 above.

Get Laid! natures way of making you smile!

You wouldn't go to a butcher to see about having your appendix out, right?

Er, you do know why surgeons (and consultants) are called "Mr", rather than "Dr"? It's because they were really butchers, used to cutting meat.

Um, no.
they are called Mr. because they were barbers, not butchers.

ECT - drug free (apart from the anaesthetic!

ECT - drug free

ideal if you don't like your brain!

[i]simonfbarnes - Member
If you have a true depression you will have physical symptoms, such as reduced or increased appetite, sleep disturbance (sleeping more or less than is usual for you), mood changes such as feeling extremely low, irritable, angry, hopeless, helpless, anxious etc. The list goes on.
excuse me but surely mood is not physical ? I never had any physical symptoms and had perfect appetite and sleep throughout, just 1, 7, 8 & 9 above.

POSTED 39 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST[/i]

Depression varies considerably in its severity. If someone is suffering from severe unipolar major depression then they will most certainly show very noticeable physical symptoms.

They will be unable to function on just about any level that people take for granted. They will not be in work, they will neglect their person (e.g. forgoing washing, shaving etc), they will derive pleasure from absolutely nothing, they will have little if any social engagement with their friends, and they may have only left their bed or home out of absolute necessity.

If someone's depression is this severe, and it is not uncommon, then they will be unable to summon up the energy or motivation to even watch a little TV or listen to the Radio etc. Giving such people a book by Dr Burns will achieve Sweet FA. Medication has it place.

Energy and Mood are not unrelated and it maybe argued that it is a case of which came first the "chicken or the egg". However, anti-depressants do not change the way people think per se and generally it is believed that they work by first restoring the physical symptoms (sleep, appetite and energy etc) and over time the mood gradually lifts. This could be why it is generally regarded that they take 2-4 weeks to work, even though experts believe that they can see the effects of the drugs within a matter of a couple of days if you know what you are looking for.

Giving such people a book by Dr Burns will achieve Sweet FA. Medication has it place.

but surely they are a tiny minority and would not include anyone reading this forum ?

First one for winter blues for me is to still try and do the commute on the bike at least once a week come rain, snow or hail (but I dont do ice it hurts when you land unexpectedly). Nothing better in my honest opinion for keeping the weight in check and raising natural hormone levels that will make you feel better and lessed stressed after work.
A good set op waterproofs would even help on a walk to work in any weather, no running required.
I have worked with a bipolar sufferer who is on prescribed medication and has CBT for the past 8 odd years. He has had highs and lows (no pun intended) but the one thing that is garaunteed to perk hime up is exercise on top of his current treatment regime.
Go on try it, its the easiest way to MTFU whilst still actually doing something to help yourself.

Cba to read all the posts.

Just to say, be careful with St John's wort. Just because it's "natural" doesn't mean it's 100% safe.
I took for about 2 weeks, and then it started to make me go dizzy(even more than normal! 😉 )
It became so bad I fell in the shower in the morning and banged my head.

"Giving such people a book by Dr Burns will achieve Sweet FA. Medication has it place."

So what is safer, more supportive,or appropriate,? reading a book and making your own mind up,Or taking perscribed medecine the patient probably knows nothing about! 🙄

Always used excercise, and this year started using a Lumie dawn lamp, which seems to be helping. Felt like someone flicked a switch in my head this year when the clocks changed. Not sure if it's the gradually increasing light from 6am to 06:30, or the sudden shock of John Humphries at 06:30, but I am getting out of bed in a more agreeable mood (she says.)

It became so bad I fell in the shower in the morning and banged my head.

that explains a lot 🙂

The SAD thing is odd, as I quite look forward to the cosiness of dark evenings, the dropping leaves etc...

Natures Anti-depressant?

😀
[img] [/img]

On a serious note, I normally read these threads but I can see that its descending/descended into a bit of a push-about regarding suitable treatment...

On a personal level, I would find it VERY hard to justify drugs when treating my own depression. I found CBT to be excellent and would recommend it. However, both my mother and sister are on anti-depressants (my mum having been on them for probably 30+ years) and it seems to work for them, so who am I to argue.

Im a diabetic and this affects my moods drastically. I'd be lost without my bike. Its unbelievable what a ride out with my mate does for my wellbeing. I feel alive after a ride. Like others have said get out on your bike and lift yourself.

sex is a good antidepressant, but who wants to have sex with a miserable git ? It's best to fix yourself without dependency, and then be more fanciable!

Why would you trust some 'natural' remedy when your doctor is prescribing you an approved treatment for your depression? Go back, see your doctor and if you don't trust them to treat you correctly, ask for a second opinion. Do get treated. Depression is a bad thing.

In a similar vein with the SAD light thing, has anyone used one? Have considered getting one to help with the "winter blues". Anybody seen any benefit apart from the waking up more gently thing? Had you thought about one plant?

Mate i was feeling just the same 7 months ago ,are you still tired even after a good nights sleep? Not enjoying the things you love (like biking)
Disapearing up your own arse with introspective thoughts?Taking everthing a bit too seriously?
Whatever is being said here go and talk to your GP or like I did get your wife to book you an appointment (i could'nt find the courage)
You may be clinically depressed and no book or exercise was helping me (i ride every tuesday night rain or shine)

I was at a lecture given by the happiness/wellbeing guy at Harvard (Tal Ben Shahar) on depression. They treated patients in three groups: one on drugs, one group on drugs and execise, one group on exercise only. The group that clocked up the best recovery levels was the exercise only group. I would also add 1 hour of broad daylight per day...and it can't be saved up.

[i]BillMC - Member
I was at a lecture given by the happiness/wellbeing guy at Harvard (Tal Ben Shahar) on depression. They treated patients in three groups: one on drugs, one group on drugs and execise, one group on exercise only. The group that clocked up the best recovery levels was the exercise only group. I would also add 1 hour of broad daylight per day...and it can't be saved up.[/i]

Interesting. Do you know whether this guy a serious academic or a quack. I can see he has lots of books and publications etc?

Can I assume that improvements were measured objectively using something like DSM-IV? What were the mean improvements in each group etc. How was each group selected etc? Was this covered in the lecture?

But assuming all this mundane stuff was addressed then I would have two observations or questions

1/ Before the study where was the overall group positioned relative to some objective measure of depression? This has a significant bearing on the validity and usefulness of the findings (i.e. we found that for a group of mildly depressed people exercise was as effective as drugs - well no surprises there or that it was a consistent result across the entire spectrum of depressive illness)

2/ What hypothesis did the guy present as to why those on "dual therapy" drugs and exercise faired worse than those on exercise only? At face value these results seems to suggest that the drugs impaired their recovery rather than playing a complimentary role to exercise. This is somewhat counter-intuitive.

I am genuinely interested - not trying to be smart ar$e.

Gary

St Johns Wort can also effect any other drugs you might be taking as it has quite a big impact on the drug metabolism pathways (Cytochorome P450's)