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Getting out on the bike... or having sex... or sex on [never with] the bike.
OP: The people you meet are cheerful because they are pleased to see you.
Awww!
Your not alone mate everyone gets the blues at some point. I'd say the exercise thing is the best idea, but the thing that cheers me the most no matter what....Is my dog's wagging tail everytime i come home.
Dog walking, Biking, and maybe a chat with friends are the answers.
Take care man.
+1 for sunshine. I know that's what I need.
I think sunshine lifts everyone's mood, at least in this country due to its rarity, but relying on that is a recipe for misery as it's not dependable. Far better to learn to enjoy all weathers 🙂
If depression is real, treat it like it's important....
by all means, but don't assume thought patterns can be corrected by a medicine!
[i]by all means, but don't assume thought patterns can be corrected by a medicine![/i]
Don't assume that they can't...
More Sh!t from SFB.
SAD is not about sunshine - its about light.
Not all depression is about disordered thought patterns
A combination of CBT, Lithium, AA, and work saved my sister.
More Sh!t from SFB.
SAD is not about sunshine - its about light.
so what ? You can either chose to be dependent on the quality of the light available, or do something about it. My mum has always had SAD and found the book quite effective.
Not all depression is about disordered thought patterns
so I believe, but I can only talk about what I know. What percentage of depressives are resistant to CBT ? The point is, it's worth trying, given that it can be so quick, and it isn't mutually exclusive to drug treatment
I wish people would get their head around the difference between "Homeopathy" and "Herbalism"/"Herbal Remedies".
Homeopathy is IMHO hogwash and is the theory that highly dilute (to the point of there being no detectable level of the supposedly active compound) solutions of plant compounds can cure illnesses that cause similar symptoms, so for vomiting, a highly dilute solution of a plant chemical that causes vomiting is supposed to cure you.
Herbal medicine is based on the use of medicines made from plants and plant extracts to cure your illness. A lot of the modern medicines originate from anicent herbal remedies. Aspirin, for example, was found to be the active chemical contained in the bark of Willow, which various cultures used to chew to alleviate aches and pains. Digitalis, used in heart medicines is derived from the Foxglove. Just because something is derived from plants it doesn't mean it is 'safe' or less harmful than a doctor's 'medicine'. Often the herbal remedies are not as pure or the dosages not as rigourously controlled as with 'medicine' prescribed by a doctor.
A combination of medicine and lifestyle change of some sort is usually the best cure for most things.
Oh, and depression is absolutely and utterly different from feeling "a bit fed up". If you have a true depression you will have physical symptoms, such as reduced or increased appetite, sleep disturbance (sleeping more or less than is usual for you), mood changes such as feeling extremely low, irritable, angry, hopeless, helpless, anxious etc. The list goes on.
In fact, here you go, here are the diagnostic criteria:
Five (or more) of the following symptoms have been present during the same 2-week period and represent a change from previous functioning; at least one of the symptoms is either (1) depressed mood or (2) loss of interest or pleasure.1)depressed mood most of the day, nearly every day, as indicated by either subjective report (e.g., feels sad or empty) or observation made by others (e.g., appears tearful). Note: In children and adolescents, can be irritable mood.
2)markedly diminished interest or pleasure in all, or almost all, activities most of the day, nearly every day (as indicated by either subjective report or observation made by others)
3)significant weight loss when not dieting or weight gain (e.g., a change of more than 5% of body weight in a month), a decrease or increase in appetite nearly every day. Note: In children, consider failure to make weight gains.
4)insomnia or hypersomnia nearly every day
5)psychomotor agitation or retardation nearly every day (observable by others, not merely subjective feeling of restlessness or being slowed down)
6)fatigue or loss of energy nearly every day
7)feelings of worthlessness or inappropriate guilt (which may be delusional) nearly every day (not merely self-reproach or guilt about being sick)
8)diminished ability to think or concentrate, or indecisiveness, nearly every day (either by subjective account or as observed by others)
9)recurrent thoughts of death (not just fear of dying), recurrent suicidal ideation without a specific plan, or a suicide attempt or a specific plan for committing suicide
If it only happens in the winter, it could well be SAD. Try getting as much daylight into you as possible, and/or think about a light box. There's lots of advice around about "normal" foods (such as bananas and chocolate) which help seratonin production. And just get out on the bike: I rode for two hours in the rain this morning and loved it. At least half of my recent rides have involved rain: it really doesn't matter. Try to work out some routes which are less muddy/more sheltered, gradually putting together drier sections until you have a workable ride and a sense of achievemant to go with it. I can get pretty low in the winter (with no real justification) but a ride always helps. It's never as bad out as it looks! 😆
Mrs S bought be a Lumi light alarm clock for the winter months. I think it has some benefit (whether real or placebo). It certainly feels nicer waking up to the growing glow of a warm light in the room, rather than t a screeching alarm clock and the pitch black outside.
See another GP and don't buy any medication recommended here without research e.g. 5HT has some nasty effects too.
I suffer from SAD and found exercise helps and getting some frsh air/light before work.
If you have a true depression you will have physical symptoms, such as reduced or increased appetite, sleep disturbance (sleeping more or less than is usual for you), mood changes such as feeling extremely low, irritable, angry, hopeless, helpless, anxious etc. The list goes on.
excuse me but surely mood is not physical ? I never had any physical symptoms and had perfect appetite and sleep throughout, just 1, 7, 8 & 9 above.
Get Laid! natures way of making you smile!
You wouldn't go to a butcher to see about having your appendix out, right?
Er, you do know why surgeons (and consultants) are called "Mr", rather than "Dr"? It's because they were really butchers, used to cutting meat.
Um, no.
they are called Mr. because they were barbers, not butchers.
ECT - drug free (apart from the anaesthetic!
ECT - drug free
ideal if you don't like your brain!
[i]simonfbarnes - Member
If you have a true depression you will have physical symptoms, such as reduced or increased appetite, sleep disturbance (sleeping more or less than is usual for you), mood changes such as feeling extremely low, irritable, angry, hopeless, helpless, anxious etc. The list goes on.
excuse me but surely mood is not physical ? I never had any physical symptoms and had perfect appetite and sleep throughout, just 1, 7, 8 & 9 above.
POSTED 39 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST[/i]
Depression varies considerably in its severity. If someone is suffering from severe unipolar major depression then they will most certainly show very noticeable physical symptoms.
They will be unable to function on just about any level that people take for granted. They will not be in work, they will neglect their person (e.g. forgoing washing, shaving etc), they will derive pleasure from absolutely nothing, they will have little if any social engagement with their friends, and they may have only left their bed or home out of absolute necessity.
If someone's depression is this severe, and it is not uncommon, then they will be unable to summon up the energy or motivation to even watch a little TV or listen to the Radio etc. Giving such people a book by Dr Burns will achieve Sweet FA. Medication has it place.
Energy and Mood are not unrelated and it maybe argued that it is a case of which came first the "chicken or the egg". However, anti-depressants do not change the way people think per se and generally it is believed that they work by first restoring the physical symptoms (sleep, appetite and energy etc) and over time the mood gradually lifts. This could be why it is generally regarded that they take 2-4 weeks to work, even though experts believe that they can see the effects of the drugs within a matter of a couple of days if you know what you are looking for.
Giving such people a book by Dr Burns will achieve Sweet FA. Medication has it place.
but surely they are a tiny minority and would not include anyone reading this forum ?
First one for winter blues for me is to still try and do the commute on the bike at least once a week come rain, snow or hail (but I dont do ice it hurts when you land unexpectedly). Nothing better in my honest opinion for keeping the weight in check and raising natural hormone levels that will make you feel better and lessed stressed after work.
A good set op waterproofs would even help on a walk to work in any weather, no running required.
I have worked with a bipolar sufferer who is on prescribed medication and has CBT for the past 8 odd years. He has had highs and lows (no pun intended) but the one thing that is garaunteed to perk hime up is exercise on top of his current treatment regime.
Go on try it, its the easiest way to MTFU whilst still actually doing something to help yourself.
Cba to read all the posts.
Just to say, be careful with St John's wort. Just because it's "natural" doesn't mean it's 100% safe.
I took for about 2 weeks, and then it started to make me go dizzy(even more than normal! 😉 )
It became so bad I fell in the shower in the morning and banged my head.
"Giving such people a book by Dr Burns will achieve Sweet FA. Medication has it place."
So what is safer, more supportive,or appropriate,? reading a book and making your own mind up,Or taking perscribed medecine the patient probably knows nothing about! 🙄
Always used excercise, and this year started using a Lumie dawn lamp, which seems to be helping. Felt like someone flicked a switch in my head this year when the clocks changed. Not sure if it's the gradually increasing light from 6am to 06:30, or the sudden shock of John Humphries at 06:30, but I am getting out of bed in a more agreeable mood (she says.)
It became so bad I fell in the shower in the morning and banged my head.
that explains a lot 🙂
The SAD thing is odd, as I quite look forward to the cosiness of dark evenings, the dropping leaves etc...
Natures Anti-depressant?
😀
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On a serious note, I normally read these threads but I can see that its descending/descended into a bit of a push-about regarding suitable treatment...
On a personal level, I would find it VERY hard to justify drugs when treating my own depression. I found CBT to be excellent and would recommend it. However, both my mother and sister are on anti-depressants (my mum having been on them for probably 30+ years) and it seems to work for them, so who am I to argue.
Im a diabetic and this affects my moods drastically. I'd be lost without my bike. Its unbelievable what a ride out with my mate does for my wellbeing. I feel alive after a ride. Like others have said get out on your bike and lift yourself.
sex is a good antidepressant, but who wants to have sex with a miserable git ? It's best to fix yourself without dependency, and then be more fanciable!
Why would you trust some 'natural' remedy when your doctor is prescribing you an approved treatment for your depression? Go back, see your doctor and if you don't trust them to treat you correctly, ask for a second opinion. Do get treated. Depression is a bad thing.
In a similar vein with the SAD light thing, has anyone used one? Have considered getting one to help with the "winter blues". Anybody seen any benefit apart from the waking up more gently thing? Had you thought about one plant?
Mate i was feeling just the same 7 months ago ,are you still tired even after a good nights sleep? Not enjoying the things you love (like biking)
Disapearing up your own arse with introspective thoughts?Taking everthing a bit too seriously?
Whatever is being said here go and talk to your GP or like I did get your wife to book you an appointment (i could'nt find the courage)
You may be clinically depressed and no book or exercise was helping me (i ride every tuesday night rain or shine)
I was at a lecture given by the happiness/wellbeing guy at Harvard (Tal Ben Shahar) on depression. They treated patients in three groups: one on drugs, one group on drugs and execise, one group on exercise only. The group that clocked up the best recovery levels was the exercise only group. I would also add 1 hour of broad daylight per day...and it can't be saved up.
[i]BillMC - Member
I was at a lecture given by the happiness/wellbeing guy at Harvard (Tal Ben Shahar) on depression. They treated patients in three groups: one on drugs, one group on drugs and execise, one group on exercise only. The group that clocked up the best recovery levels was the exercise only group. I would also add 1 hour of broad daylight per day...and it can't be saved up.[/i]
Interesting. Do you know whether this guy a serious academic or a quack. I can see he has lots of books and publications etc?
Can I assume that improvements were measured objectively using something like DSM-IV? What were the mean improvements in each group etc. How was each group selected etc? Was this covered in the lecture?
But assuming all this mundane stuff was addressed then I would have two observations or questions
1/ Before the study where was the overall group positioned relative to some objective measure of depression? This has a significant bearing on the validity and usefulness of the findings (i.e. we found that for a group of mildly depressed people exercise was as effective as drugs - well no surprises there or that it was a consistent result across the entire spectrum of depressive illness)
2/ What hypothesis did the guy present as to why those on "dual therapy" drugs and exercise faired worse than those on exercise only? At face value these results seems to suggest that the drugs impaired their recovery rather than playing a complimentary role to exercise. This is somewhat counter-intuitive.
I am genuinely interested - not trying to be smart ar$e.
Gary
St Johns Wort can also effect any other drugs you might be taking as it has quite a big impact on the drug metabolism pathways (Cytochorome P450's)
I wish people would get their head around the difference between "Homeopathy" and "Herbalism"/"Herbal Remedies".
i wish people would get their heads around the difference between these and proper medication prescribed by professionals and not some tit in a healthfood shop.
proper drugs dont work for everyone but they can usually at least provide a crutch to help you along until you heal enough to make your own way again, your gp should be able to help you with things other than pills if they are doing a half decent job.
to the OP, talk to your folks/friends if you find this hard to do at least make an app to see your gp. might be hard to see a way out of it at the moment but when you start asking for help you should get it.
good luck to you.
feel free to try the beardy sandal tea, you might feel better in a few weeks but it wont be anything to do with your nasty tasting cuppa. by then xmas/whatever has gone and you would feel better anyway.
exercise does help and in the words of the famous philosopher "Why Don't You Just Switch Off Your Television Set And Go Out And Do Something Less Boring Instead?"
amazing, the anti swear software turned the 3 letter word for a small bird into a 4 asterisk shocker. i could be saying almost anything about those c**ts in healthfood shops 😉
proper drugs dont work for everyone
I believe for antidepressants they are only marginally more effective than a placebo in most cases 🙁
I believe for antidepressants they are only marginally more effective than a placebo in most cases
thats what the recent studies say, all sorts of probs with the proper drugs but if they marginally work better than placebos thats still better than nothing, at least it has been tested and proved to some degree. the homeo/herbal route has never tested better than placebo if you take out the variables. ask your GP they are usually nice helpfull people.
if you want something that works marginally less, costs more than a prescription and could be more harmfull than the tested drug you could try the herbal stuff etc from the healthfood shop and put your faith into the beardy chap/women behind the counter. depends on your belief systems really.
unfortunately in some studies exercise has tested better than any of the drugs but if you ask your GP for a gym pass/bike to the same value of the drugs they might proscribe you will be told to "get tay f..." (in scotland anyway)
all sorts of probs with the proper drugs but if they marginally work better than placebos thats still better than nothing
yeah, marginally, but also with lots of embarrasing and inconvenient side effects - for instance sex is good for depression, but on SSRIs I couldn't come 🙁 On the upside I could shag all night 🙂
But I'm not arguing for quack medicines because I found CBT massively more effective, and for that matter exercise can be cheap and self prescribed
for instance sex is good for depression, but on SSRIs I couldn't come On the upside I could shag all night
so if you are depressed and dont have a job perhaps you should "retrain" as a pornstar. sorry below the belt i know 😀
to the OP you have made the first step in even posting up here, talking to strangers is sometimes more comfortable and easy than to people you know. thats how the samaritans work, they might not take the piss or suggest going to the healthfood shop to make yourself happy though 🙄
Without wanting to sound patronising, have you ever read 'Touching the void', I just read it out of interest but found it almost impossible to complain about anything for months after. Given that everything was ramped up against the guy he just kept on fighting.
Without wanting to sound patronising, have you ever read 'Touching the void', I just read it out of interest but found it almost impossible to complain about anything for months after. Given that everything was ramped up against the guy he just kept on fighting.
Ah, the "pull yourself together" approach to treatment of medical conditions.
And, presumably, we should be telling petesgaff the same thing over on his thread?
Please.
Ah, the "pull yourself together" approach to treatment of medical conditions.
toby1 actually made a good point, which essentially relates to the CBT treatment - people with depression, caused by low self esteem/negative thoughts/performance anxiety/etc are depressed because they think that the situation they are in is bad/horrific/can't get any worse. These people (myself included, btw) usually fail to see the positive side of a situation, and so get depressed. Joe Simpson is essentially an optimist, and therefore has the strength of conviction and confidence to believe that "everything will be OK" or that "things could be worse" etc. Those with depression don't think this way.
I hate the MTFU statements you get, but essentially combatting depression (for some) is about changing from negative to positive thinking, and if Joe Simpson had been a depressive, he probably would have just given up on the first fall which broke his leg.
So yes, its good to be shown that things aren't actually that bad, even if we think they are. Worries about crap job, little money, family bickering, etc can be shown to [i]actually[/i] be insignificant compared to other people's problems e.g. Pete's illness.
so if you are depressed and dont have a job perhaps you should "retrain" as a pornstar. sorry below the belt i know
that was 8 years ago - I'm fixed now 🙂