Mountain resscue

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  • Mountain resscue
  • Premier Icon jam bo
    Subscriber

    Isn’t it about time we were all insured to go to the hills or bike?

    no.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    It’s a tough one, the system is volunteer based – do you suggest it should be professional/paid?

    How much would a retained scheme cost, what happens if you are not insured? What is classed as out in the mountains/hills?

    iolo
    Member

    All I’m saying is what if the volunteers retired and no one was there to fill their place? Who would help?

    Fraz
    Member

    The police. As thats what they do right now.

    iolo
    Member

    And that the air ambulance would have a guaranteed funding instead of relying on contributions.
    Without contributions would they have to stop?

    glupton1976
    Member

    What about this story?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-23919767

    Dont know about south of the border, but up here it seems to be a bit of an honour to work for the MRTs.

    B.A.Nana
    Member

    I think the people you should be asking are the MRT volunteers. Not a bunch of Audi driving fat IT exec weekend warriors off here.

    Premier Icon martinhutch
    Subscriber

    None of us would dare go to the Alps, Canada or anywhere else without some kind of cover but expect it to be free here.

    Let’s celebrate the fact that we don’t charge folk for rescue, and that volunteers are happy to give up their time and energy for people who are in genuine distress or danger.

    Sure, there are some abuses of the system (not the examples you give), but the need for insurance would act as a barrier to access for occasional visitors to our mountains and wilderness areas, and a disincentive to many members of MRT, who do it from a love of the mountains and a desire to help people enjoy them safely.

    By all means we should exempt MRT from VAT, that would be a good thing.

    peterfile
    Member

    I think the people you should be asking are the MRT volunteers.

    Can’t he be offended on their behalf? 😉

    dan1980
    Member

    Isn’t it about time we were all insured to go to the hills or bike?

    No

    None of us would dare go to the Alps, Canada or anywhere else without some kind of cover but expect it to be free here.

    That’s because there are other issues to consider like different rescue systems, different health care arrangements, repatriation in the event of an accident etc.

    I just think these helpers should be appreciated financially for the work they do.

    Then donate. Stick the change from your round or the change from your lunch in the collection box as you pass by, set up a direct debit, use just giving. Any, and all help is gratefully received.

    I’m pleased that MR in this country is free, and as an MR volunteer I’d prefer it to stay that way.

    Everyone who volunteers in MR does it because they have a passion for the hills, and a desire to help folk out. Adding a financial reward/incentive for doing what we do could alter the reasons why people do give up their time to help.

    iolo
    Member

    I for one wouldn’t mind 30 odd quid per month fro insurance so that should anything bad happen (god forbid) I know evreybody involved would get paid.
    Why do people think this is acceptable when riding or climbing in Whistler but not here in uk?

    dan1980
    Member

    By all means we should exempt MRT from VAT, that would be a good thing.

    If people could “sign” this petition, that’d be fantastic.

    http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/44778

    Premier Icon franksinatra
    Subscriber

    No

    People without insurance would still need rescuing.

    I’m in the local MR team, there is no shortage of volunteers. Everyone does it because they want to.

    Dementia mispers are a big deal but over time you will see teams evolving to adapt for this, probably with greater links to to the community with volunteers searchers, as opposed to fully trained MR personnel.

    The feeling may be slightly different for the really busy teams like Langdale but I doubt it.

    Big caveat to this being that I am still a newbie, trainee member, not necessarily qualified to represent the views of the wizened older team members!

    Premier Icon martinhutch
    Subscriber

    Iolo – sounds good. You can direct debit £30pm to MR then. You’ll still get picked up, they’ll get recompensed in a way they’d welcome very much, and if insurance becomes compulsory, you can stop the DD and take out a policy.

    Premier Icon franksinatra
    Subscriber

    I for one wouldn’t mind 30 odd quid per month fro insurance so that should anything bad happen

    I’m sure your local MRT would be deleted to help you set up a direct debit for regular contribution!

    rocketman
    Member

    None of us would dare go to the Alps, Canada or anywhere else without some kind of cover

    Some of us would *cough*

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    iolo wrote:

    I for one wouldn’t mind 30 odd quid per month fro insurance so that should anything bad happen (god forbid) I know evreybody involved would get paid.
    Why do people think this is acceptable when riding or climbing in Whistler but not here in uk?

    So if we turn the volunteers into paid workers with all the crap levels of management that go with it we would probably end up with a bloated system where people sit waiting for a call costing a huge amount more milking insurance companies and levelling a huge amount of fees at anyone who wants to go outside of a car park.

    Having signs up at every footpath/BW junction stating that you need insurance to walk down there would probably be off putting to most people.

    iolo
    Member

    I would but what about the air ambulance? All I’m saying is I’d like everyone to get paid.Is that such a bad thing?

    Premier Icon franksinatra
    Subscriber

    My team doesn’t get called out enough to justify salaries, you could look at a retained system but, if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

    Premier Icon MSP
    Subscriber

    How does it work in France exactly? I think most rescuers are still volunteers (local mountain guides) as they are the ones with the skills and knowledge required. But if a helicopter ride is required, then the rescued person is charged for that.

    I don’t think its a matter that anyone without insurance is banned from the hills, just that if it does go wrong you may have a bill to foot later, and you may prefer to be insured to cover that cost.

    Premier Icon zilog6128
    Subscriber

    I suspect half the reason a lot of these people volunteer (especially the RNLI) is that, whilst it is serious business, they get to spend time playing outdoors with some very tasty kit. So if you want to “reward” them then donating money so they can buy more cool stuff would probably be a decent way of doing it!

    peterfile
    Member

    I suspect half the reason a lot of these people volunteer (especially the RNLI) is that, whilst it is serious business, they get to spend time playing outdoors with some very tasty kit.

    To be honest, I wouldn’t call being phoned at 7pm in the middle of winter to walk into the NF of the Ben, in pitch black freezing conditions, to try and find/rescue someone stuck 5 pitches into a route as “playing outdoors”, especially given that you’re occasionally taking a body home with you (both mentally and physically).

    Think you may have missed the point of MRT entirely.

    Pigface
    Member

    I for one wouldn’t mind 30 odd quid per month fro insurance so that should anything bad happen

    Is this for when you beat someone up for riding on secret trails????

    iolo
    Member

    I have me duelling banjos waiting for them pigface 8)

    Premier Icon zilog6128
    Subscriber

    Think you may have missed the point of MRT entirely.

    Probably. I live near the coast not the mountains. Do MRT volunteers actually moan about being called out though, or do they enjoy it (if only for the challenge?)

    Premier Icon teamhurtmore
    Subscriber

    I used to dream of being a good enough climber to be in the MRT! Imagine working with the great Hamish MacInnes. The staff at the old Climbers Shop/Frank Davies (in the days of just them and the small original John Gaynor/s in A’side) were part of the Langdale MRT and I held them in awe.

    OP, no BTW!

    Berm Bandit
    Member

    Personally, I think it would be perfectly reasonable to render an invoice for the service. Up to the individual how to cover/cope with that, certainly insurance may well be one way that would work for many. Ultimately if it made people stop and think for a moment before thoughtlessly or needlessly putting themselves in harms way it would be a good thing.

    iolo
    Member

    Isn’t it about time we were all insured to go to the hills or bike?
    None of us would dare go to the Alps, Canada or anywhere else without some kind of cover but expect it to be free here.
    This story
    and this story
    are typical examples.
    I just think these helpers should be appreciated financially for the work they do.

    peterfile
    Member

    Imagine working with the great Hamish MacInnes.

    I sit at the next table to the legend often on a Sunday morning. A group of locals (including a friend of mine) meet regularly for breakfast, we tend to join later and listen to the subdued conversations. True gentleman 🙂

    Really horrible idea that anyone should have to pay to use the countryside. At what point would the insurance become a necessity; on a footpath, the minute you touch a rock, above a given altitude, below a certain temperature, above a given incline, when you enter a national park (who’s ever needed rescuing from the new forest)?

    If the specialist rescue services wanted to be paid, and every time I’ve seen them comment on this they don’t but assuming they did then that payment would have to come out of general taxation. Any ‘pay to play’ insurance would be detrimental to participation and the last thing we need in our society is another obstacle that gets in the way of people getting some exercise.

    If any kind of payment system did come into practice then I’d expect it would entirely change the way that the services operated and were used by the public.

    Premier Icon martinhutch
    Subscriber

    Ultimately if it made people stop and think for a moment before thoughtlessly or needlessly putting themselves in harms way it would be a good thing.

    Unfortunately it would also make people think twice before taking their kids for a walk in the Lake District in good conditions. We should think very carefully before labelling our national parks as places where you need insurance to step off the tarmac.

    As others have said, it would create an unwanted bureaucracy around the charging, chasing and division of the funds.

    If there was a lot of noise from MRTs about charging people, I might consider it, but the majority of MRT members would be diametrically opposed, so if they’re happy, why are we trying to pretend that the system needs to be rebuilt?

    Premier Icon teamhurtmore
    Subscriber

    Is there a pair of Terradactyls on the wall in his honour?

    I was a bit too young for Brown and Whillans in their prime, but HM was the wise old man (even then) bringing in the young guns like Bonnington, Haston (cried when he was hit by that avalanche in Leysin), Clough, Scott, Estcourt and then Tasker and Boardman. Seemed a sad period when so many of that group lost their lives.

    There’s an old picture of MacInnes in what look like gaberdine trousers probably on the Ben that is lodged in my memory,

    Premier Icon MSP
    Subscriber

    Unfortunately it would also make people think twice before taking their kids for a walk in the Lake District in good conditions. We should think very carefully before labelling our national parks as places where you need insurance to step off the tarmac.

    They seem to manage in other European countries where rescue charges are applied, in fact I would say most European countries are more active outdoors than the UK.

    Berm Bandit
    Member

    Unfortunately it would also make people think twice before taking their kids for a walk in the Lake District in good conditions. We should think very carefully before labelling our national parks as places where you need insurance to step off the tarmac.

    As others have said, it would create an unwanted bureaucracy around the charging, chasing and division of the funds.

    I’ve not noticed that happening in respect of Ambulance trips for motorcyclists and other “self inflicted” problems, where that has been happening since the 70’s. Nor is it noticable in the Alps where helicopter rescues are charged as a norm. In essence its the same argument about the Royals being a toursit attration. i.e.not a shred of evidence to support the supposition, but if you say it loud and often enough people start to believe it. That apart, in what way would making people more cautious of the consequences of say, going up Snowden with inappropriate footware/kit/food/preparation be a bad thing?

    Premier Icon 40mpg
    Subscriber

    (who’s ever needed rescuing from the new forest)?

    Errr <puts hand up gingerly>

    It did involve bikes, lots of cider and stupidity. So yes, they probably should have charged me. 😳

    Dales_rider
    Member

    Always an odd question, in all the years I was involved with MRT and working a search dog I never gave it a thought. Did think maybe a contribution from the government for the teams equipment, thinking back though I did spend a lot of time and money, not on rescues but on training. Twice a week, at least, every week for 12 years. So any body fancy coughing up mail me and they can make a donation. 🙂

    peterfile
    Member

    Is there a pair of Terradactyls on the wall in his honour?

    Not in the place I’m talking about, however I think there is a set in Blackrock Cottage.

    I always feel a mixture of emotions when staying at the McIntyre hut, so many pictures of Alex MacIntyre around, looking immensely fun and happy in all of them.

    antigee
    Member

    think my concern is that people at the push of a button expect someone to give up their time to rescue them – I know people in MRT enjoy it and get a sense of satisfaction from it and traditionally it was people in the hills helping each other and helping genuine emergencies – but going out when you should be putting the kids in the bath – getting back late and being tired at work the next day just because someone can’t be bothered to take a map or gets scared seems to me an abuse of a volunteer system

    my Hamish McInnes story – long time back some friends decided to late in the day to do the very long gully climb in Glencoe – as it got dark we walked up the side to see if on way down and called out a bit – got a response “we want rescuing” – I pointed out it was getting dark and we didn’t know the layout of the gully from the side and how to get to them so would have to call the mountain rescue, better off sitting it out – “no call the rescue”
    Back down and we ring 999 and policeman arrive to assess situation policeman rings Hamish – grunts a bit and gives phone to me – we have a chat and agree they’ve just been stupid and won’t die let them climb out in the morning – I tell the policeman what we’ve agreed -he grabs phone off me and says something like “I can’t go off shift now you’ll have to sort it”

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