The Flying Ox – Member

It’s not nonsense. It’s a question you can’t answer because the answer either outs you as someone influenced by marketing or a buffoon with the financial decision making skills of a 4 year old.

No its not its a nonsense question. Its not something that could ever exisit in real life. there would always be other considerations such as place of manufacture, amount of packaging, and other differences in the product.

Wher people have asked questions possible to answer I have attempted to do so

So – I will answer more if another two pages is posted

CaptainFlashheart – Member

i am laughing at the obsessiveness of folk arguing

Dear Kettle, you are black.

Yours sincerely,

Pot.

2 pages posted without me posting a thing – while I rode 25 miles on my bike, dug some ditches, watched a couple of rugby games, cooked tea etc.

So – 2 more pages or will the mods put it out of its misery?

my daughter puts forward a more compelling argument for washing up brand a rather than brand b against tj’s. she goes by colour.

I do not put forward any argument for brand a over brand b – have yo actually been reading? I don’t care which it is so long as it does what I want it to do

so go on chaps – can you dish up two pages of arguement with me without my help?

2 pages posted without me posting a thing – while I rode 25 miles on my bike, dug some ditches, watched a couple of rugby games, cooked tea etc.

go you and your life outside STWland…
Its like you needed to emphasise it….just in case it was a bit unlikely…

I do not put forward any argument for brand a over brand b – have yo actually been reading? I don’t care which it is so long as it does what I want it to do

but you make a choice, without any basis for making that choice (or secretly you do,but, for some perverse reason you claim you don’t) whereas my daughter does make a choice based on what she unknowingly sees (which you dont).

what have YOU been reading?

Marketing is nonsense.
I watched the EDF advert 3 times but I still don’t need a poo.

No its not its a nonsense question. Its not something that could ever exisit in real life. there would always be other considerations such as place of manufacture, amount of packaging, and other differences in the product.

With superhuman stubborn-ness and logic like that, there’s only one possible scenario:
You are my wife, and I claim my £5. Now stop arguing. It upsets the baby.

🙂

What you guys seem unable to understand is the separation between what the object is and what its marketed as – sometimes this gulf is small,sometimes large

What you have demonstrated again, TJ, is your complete lack of understanding of what marketing involves.
Your ability to bang on your rather vocal drum about something you have no knowledge about is most amusing. 😀

Junkyard – lots and lots of phrases where I qualify the absolute. even in your quote most people would not take “bugger all” as absolute zero would they? Why yo keep on doing this selective quoting and then inventing things yo claim I will say^ is rather obsessive

With all due respect I quote you and I then give the entire post to stop you doing this repeated claim of selective quoting.
Out of interest was doing another post to me when i had not replied not obsessive on your part oh and why the selective quoting of you eh 🙄
Please dont complain i do something then do it yourself 🙄 it make syou look like a hyporit or foolish and you are neither.
Its a thread you are TJ ing and i and others are trying to point out why you are mistaken…why we are doing this with you is the great mystery as we all know it is pointless.

Obsessive…iirc correctly that would be a beautiful example of “inventing things” and doing a personal attack…you know the kind of stuff you accuse others of doing ad naseum whilst ignoring your own departures into these area.

I would refer you to this thread *where you made up something i had never said in order to refute it…you did have the good sense to leave the thread after doing this but I am sure by now there is a TJ reason that will explain this behaviour…I am certain you weren’t wrong despite the inability to quote me.

Honestly how many people need to keep saying the same old stuff to you before you consider the possibility that we may actually have a point about this issue and your posting style in general?

*http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/the-helmet-debate-rumbles-on-in-the-mainstream-media/page/4#post-3855126

^

I have only got to Page 2 of 5 sI am sure it continued till that post [ you are going to trawl your own posts to find something and I wish you luck but it was clear what you were saying..you were free of marketting and we were arrogant and patronising to suggest you were not. You appear to accept our view that you are influenced though I am sure there is a special Ninja TJ argument move you will now pull to deny this

Had you qualified it as such we could have avoided most of this.
I shall leave you to claim I am being personal, misrepresenting your quotes, telling me you never said what i have quoted etc that and all the other usual stuff you do when you TJ an argument.

I bet you are going to claim that your replies did none of this aren’t you

I’m with TJ on this, What’s so surprising about ignoring/not being swayed by marketing. Some of us have a mind of our own. we are not all sheep!

It’s quite possible that you personally aren’t affected by marketing but that doesn’t mean that it doesn’t work. The last time that this came up I posted a link to a large scale test that showed a bunch of things that proved that marketing works but the key points from the test (which used a banner ad on a web page) were:

The ad only increased people’s spending on the product by 5% on average. It doesn’t seem much and leave plenty of scope for people not being affected. However that 5% gave an ROI of 3 so clearly it worked.

90% of the people whose spending increased never bought the product online even though it was an online ad. They probably imagine that the ad had no effect on them and anyone doing a simple analysis of the effect of the banner such as sales linked to clicks on the banner would imagine that the marketing failed. Only when a full analysis of both offline and online sales was done was the really effect seen.

So for me personally it is quite possible that some people aren’t affected but from a marketing point of view enough people are affected to make it worth the effort. As someone who spends money on online advertising it was interesting that I shouldn’t put too much weight only on what I see happening online.

That looks very interesting leffeboy, but it only appears to be focussed on advertising, which we all know is just small part of the work that the marketing machine undertakes.
It’s not necessarily a question of being affected by, but more a question of benefitting from marketing.

Yep, but a banner ad was the only way to be able to be sure whether or not someone in the target group had actually seen it and hence allow for a proper control group who your were sure ( or largely sure) hadn’t seen it.

There were more interesting studies on the web doing things such as flashing subliminal images and showing that it later changed your likelihood of selecting a particular product when in a rush but none of those linked to data that we could actually look at without paying. The idea there being that you wouldn’t be able to affect people who thought carefully about each purchase but for people who just bought something and got on with the next job their decisions were affected by stuff they weren’t aware of. At least that was what they wanted to tell us – without numbers it is hearsay really

Edit: somewhat amusingly the iPad keeps changing hearsay to heresy. Take your pick, either seems to work 🙂

I’m with TJ on this, What’s so surprising about ignoring/not being swayed by marketing. Some of us have a mind of our own. we are not all sheep!

Being able to think for yourself does not mean you are not influenced by marketing…

You need to understand that advertising/marketing communications are only a single component of what marketing actually is. There’s far more to it than what you consciously experience as a consumer.

If you’ve ever made a buying decision ever, in your life, then you have made that decision, in part, under the influence of marketing.

Marketing is made up of:
The product itself
The price
The way its promoted (branding, advertising, social media etc)
Where you buy it from

It also sells stuff to people based on their motivations and various human needs. People very frequently are not as aware of their motivations for buying stuff, as they think they are.

I have a mind of my own but I am still influenced by marketing. There’s no shame in that IMO…

Some of us have a mind of our own. we are not all sheep!

So the rest of us who argue that marketing does have an effect, are unable to think for ourselves? 🙄

Arrogance aside, you are telling us that you are in complete control of your subconscious and any subliminal attempts to market products to you?

If you’ve ever made a buying decision ever, in your life, then you have made that decision, in part, under the influence of marketing.

My arse.

I punctured a car tyre after 11 hours of a 16 hour drive back from Europe. I changed to the little tiny spare about 30 seconds from the ferry doors closing. When we got to Dover, I drove to the first tyre place in the town and said ‘Put me a new tyre on’.

Then I paid for said tyre, and carried on driving.

Marketing input? Nil.

Although I am a little sceptical of TJs dismissal of any marketing input, I am also sceptical of the insistence that each and every purchasing decision that is made in the UK and the wider world is attributable to the wonders of the marketing genius.

Marketing has an impact, but much of that is over-rated by people who use a goodly amount of ‘hair product’.

I do find it most amusing how any of the anti-marketing squad can stand in any shop with a product in their hands, ready to buy it, and can say that they are not affected by marketing.
While I could agree crikey, I feel compelled to ask you how easy it was to find the tyre supplier?

How easy? I drove off the ferry and turned right off the main road.

I know you are going to suggest that this indicates the all powerful hand of the marketing genius, but I already knew there was a tyre place there because two years earlier, while waiting for a mate to buy some petrol, I’d walked round the corner and had a wee in their forecourt at 4:30 am in the morning.

Marketing or bladder capacity?

I know you are going to suggest that this indicates the all powerful hand of the marketing genius

No, I’m going to suggest the tyre company chose the place to locate their workshop/sales area that would make it easy for customers in their market to find. I bet it wasn’t in a pedestrianised area. 😉

…I buy lots of stuff based on the way it is marketed, but I also don’t buy lots of stuff based on the way it is marketed.

Rapha is a case in point; I wouldn’t buy it because of the marketing, despite it being very good cycling clothing.

No, I’m going to suggest the tyre company chose the place to locate their workshop/sales area that would make it easy for customers in their market to find.

a) It’s in Dover.

Dover is essentially a street at the bottom of a cliff with a ferry port at one end and a way out to the rest of the UK at the other.

b) It’s on a road.

..you are correct that it was not in a pedestrian area, but that doesn’t indicate that it was placed there because the owner had been to marketing college, it would indicate that is was placed there because he is not a dick.

..you are correct that it was not in a pedestrian area, but that doesn’t indicate that it was placed there because the owner had been to marketing college, it would indicate that is was placed there because he is not a dick.

Yet it still comes under the umbrella of the marketing mix. I also assume he had a sign large enough for you identify that he sold tyres. Seems totally logical to make your products accessible to your customers.
No?
😆

one of my favourite ads of all time. and yet i never eat cadburys, i’m more of a galaxy man, myself….

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnzFRV1LwIo[/video]

I also assume he had a sign large enough for you identify that he sold tyres

Nope.

I knew they sold tyres because I saw them through the window when I was having a wee. The signs were taken in overnight, presumably to avoid alerting the French invasion force that they could obtain rubber wheel coverings to commence and continue their journey to London to kidnap the Queen. Or to avoid them being nicked.

I feel the fundamental problem in this debate is the definition of the concept of marketing; it would appear that those who need to support and defend the concept adopt a definition so over-arching and all encompassing that nothing should be considered to be ‘not-marketing’.

I am quite prepared to accept that many of the purchases we make are influenced by marketing, but I am not prepared to accept that the reason human children are born with eyes is to be informed about what stuff to buy.

Marketing input? Nil.

Wrong. There was a marketing decision to site the tyre workshop just where people would see it coming off the ferry. As you then drove there to make your purchase, as opposed to driving round Dover randomly, and ignoring said marketing, you were affected by the marketing decision on where to site the store

Simples

I feel the fundamental problem in this debate is the definition of the concept of marketing;

This was pointed out much earlier in the debate.
I completely agree that it’s possible to find things by accident, but marketing does influence the passage of every product from conception to final market. FACT. 😆

There was a marketing decision to site the tyre workshop just where people would see it coming off the ferry

Brilliant!

…but if you had read the words that I have written, you would see that the tyre place was not, in fact ‘just where people would see it coming off the ferry’.

Would you like to try a bit harder?

marketing does influence the passage of every product from conception to final market.

I agree to some extent, but I would suggest that

marketing does have some variable and ill-defined influence on the passage of every product from conception to final market,

to be rather more accurate.

Would you like to try a bit harder?

Already done, the location was selected for a reason. Not all advertising is directed at all people as you’ve seen with Rapha, which is good.
(I’d hate for the proles to be seen in Rapha, look what happened to Burberry…).

I am not prepared to accept that the reason human children are born with eyes is to be informed about what stuff to buy.

I’m with you on this. We were given them to work out which fruits to pick or not pick, which animals looked easiest to kill, which animals looked like they might kills us and which mate looked best to procreate with… amongst other things.

marketing does have some variable and ill-defined influence on the passage of every product from conception to final market,

What, like price? I think every product that is on sale to the public has a price, or have I missed something?

crikey,in an earlier post i intimated that my 3 yr old has more resoning behind ‘her’ purchases than tj does. He would have us believe he does something akin to pin the tale on the donkey. Which is nonsense. My daughter doesn’t know what chocolate tastes like, but she likes bright colours so reaches for the bright packets, coincidentaly at child height, when she’s in the shop.

It’s so ingrained in all of us.

As don simon says, advertising is but a small part.

I like rapha, i like their kit, i kinda like their films, i like the way they play on the physical hardness of cycling. Cuz we are hard!

I punctured a car tyre after 11 hours of a 16 hour drive back from Europe. I changed to the little tiny spare about 30 seconds from the ferry doors closing. When we got to Dover, I drove to the first tyre place in the town and said ‘Put me a new tyre on’.

Then I paid for said tyre, and carried on driving.

Marketing input? Nil.

what tyre was it?
the cheapest? the one not quite the cheapest with a name you had heard of? not a continental because you had a bad experience with vert pro’s? a michelin as you trust the brand unlike the dunlops that came with the car but feel a bit squirmy in the wet? the one you liked the look of because the tread looked good and not some odd pattern? the only one they had in the size you needed?

i think we need to know how you came to a decision on your purchase for the sake of those who like to argue.

Prices are usually fairly well defined, at least where I live.

Barter and haggling may be a feature of your retail activity, but it’s not something I can honestly suggest I do often.

i think we need to know how you came to a decision on your purchase for the sake of those who like to argue

He started a ‘what tyre for driving off ferries?’ thread.

EDIT:

Prices are usually fairly well defined, at least where I live.

How is the price set, or more importantly by who? Who collates this information? And who does pretty graphs to show the effects on demand whenever the price goes up or down? Who is responsible for designing the discount prices or the special offer?

i think we need to know how you came to a decision on your purchase for the sake of those who like to argue.

A persistent feature of the pro-marketeers seems to be an insistence on argument for the sake of it.

I said ‘Put me a new tyre on’.

He did, and then I paid for it.

C’est tout.

I didn’t look to see what colour it was, what the packaging was like, what tyre buying experience I was being offered, what the effect on my self image, my self esteem or that of my family would be.

I just bought a tyre.

A persistent feature of the pro-marketeers seems to be an insistence on argument for the sake of it.

I said ‘Put me a new tyre on’.

He did, and then I paid for it.
£2k,please? Supply and demand, innit? 😆

How is the price set, or more importantly by who? Who collates this information? And who does pretty graphs to show the effects on demand whenever the price goes up or down? Who is responsible for designing the discount prices or the special offer?

I really didn’t care; 11 hours in and 5 more to go, family of me, wife and 3 kids in car. I needed a tyre, asked for and got one.

Presumably that counts as a win for the tyre buying experience chaps…

He didn’t ask you what kind of tyre you wanted?