• This topic has 41 replies, 21 voices, and was last updated 1 week ago by PePPeR.
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  • Moderish diesel or petrol?
  • Premier Icon Dickyboy
    Full Member

    Finally getting round to ditching the co car now that we have become a one car family 👍 most weeks will be doing about six x 10 to 15 mile journeys along nsl roads, is that too short to keep a dpf clear or should I factor in taking a longer route every couple of weeks or just get a petrol instead. Test driving a couple of 2018/2017 Mazda 3s this w/e 🤔

    Premier Icon dc1988
    Free Member

    Sounds like a petrol would make most sense, I think diesel tends to be worth the possible extra hassle/costs if you’re doing over 15k miles a year. I like the Mazda 3, it feels pretty premium if you get the slightly higher spec model with leather seats etc

    Premier Icon doris5000
    Free Member

    3-5K miles a year? Go petrol!

    Also, given the amount of charging zones coming in over the next couple of years, if you want to drive into any cities you’ll probably be best off with a petrol…

    Premier Icon Dickyboy
    Full Member

    Thanks, was kind of my feeling to go petrol but I’ve had 2.0l diesels for the past 20 odd years and gone from 30k pa to now less than 10k pa, so a bit of me is reluctant to change. If those sort of journeys will kill the dpf then that would be the final nail for the diesel option 🤔

    Premier Icon stumpy01
    Full Member

    I’d be going petrol for that sort of mileage (or electric?)

    Premier Icon bensales
    Free Member

    Petrol for that mileage. We’ve got a 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Nav, owned from new. 2 litre petrol 120bhp version. Its a really nice car, although the ride is a touch harsh on bumpy roads.

    Premier Icon bsims
    Free Member

    Go petrol for the many reasons above. You will probably be alright with diesel. In my experience it’s not just distance with dpf, it’s also the amount of heat you can get through them.

    Mrs Sims does 11 miles each way 3 days a week with town then nsl of 7 miles then town. She has no dpf problems. I do 22 miles each way with town then 19 miles of M way/ duel carriage way then town.

    I get endless problems as it is very busy so I can’t stretch the engine at all to get heat into it unless I use 5th and 4th. Any fuel I save with diesel is used up in lower gears or dpf unclogging drives at night.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Full Member

    six x 10 to 15 mile journeys along nsl roads, is that too short to keep a dpf clear

    No, don’t think so. It’s 1-2 mile trips to the shops that are the issue, and only then if you ignore the light telling you to take it for a long drive.

    But as above, if you find a cheaper petrol it might be worth it that way.

    In my experience it’s not just distance with dpf, it’s also the amount of heat you can get through them.

    Yes, and driving at NSL will put a lot more heat through the DPF.

    Premier Icon FB-ATB
    Full Member

    Def petrol. I had to get a car with 1 weeks notice last year when changing jobs. A friend had a diesel Golf that was made available.
    My work journey was a 16 mile commute so not an ideal choice, but I didn’t have to spend time looking. It was to be a stop gap but lockdown 2 sent us wfh so it has barely moved ( that’s one year of the new cambelts life gone).
    I toy with the idea of changing to something more suitable but current car supply issues put paid to that. I’m half tempted to go electric. But also the car is in good nick. It looks nowhere near 13 years old.

    One thing to watch with Mazda 3- we had a 57 plate and the fuel economy wasn’t the best. It was also quite pricey on insurance compared to, say a Focus.

    Premier Icon Dickyboy
    Full Member

    Thanks all, we’re planning on going petrol but if we don’t like how it drives, it looks like going diesel won’t be a disaster as we’re lucky enough to pick and choose when we drive so avoid rush hour queues 😊

    Premier Icon FB-ATB
    Full Member

    Ps- the Mazda 3 was a good car. One thing to watch out for are the wheels. They corroded quite badly (not kerbed) I thought it was just bad luck/ lack of regular cleaning but a colleague with a 3 said they’re known for it- he’s had 2 sets replaced under warranty.

    So I took my car down, they took photos to send to HQ & said i’d hear from them sometime. Within 10 mins I had an email confirming 4 new wheels were on their way.

    This was c2010 so may be different now.

    Premier Icon mjsmke
    Free Member

    2 litre petrol 120bhp

    I get that out of a 1.2 litre petrol. Cheaper to run too.

    Premier Icon bsims
    Free Member

    ^ ain’t no replacement for displacement, though.

    Premier Icon bensales
    Free Member

    I get that out of a 1.2 litre petrol. Cheaper to run too.

    The Mazda 3 costs us £30 a year to tax, £250 a year fully comp to insure, £200 a year to service and does 40mpg (tracked) in urban driving. And as mentioned above, a naturally aspirated 2 litre petrol is always nicer to drive than a smaller one.

    The reason why I mentioned the power, was not to show off it’s extremes (because frankly, it’s not!) but because Mazda do two versions of the 2 litre, 120bhp and 165bhp and I felt it mattered to make it clear which one I was talking about.

    And if I really wanted a “cheap to run” pissing contest, I’d talk about my other car that has 500bhp, costs nothing to tax or service, and costs £3.50 to fill the ‘tank’.

    Premier Icon bails
    Full Member

    Yeah, I test drove a ~120hp ecoboost (1L?) Focus, ~120hp 1.4L Leon and 120hp 2L NA Mazda 3 basically back to back and the Mazda was the nicest to drive. The Focus felt really underpowered compared to the other two.

    Premier Icon snotrag
    Full Member

    We also have a 2014 (First year of BM model) Mazda 3.

    Yes, 120bhp does not sound much from a 2litre when the equivalent Focus or Golf is a 1.0 Ecoboost or 1.2 TSI.

    The Mazda shares the same high compression skyactiv engine as the MX-5, and is far, far nicer to drive than the massibvely boosty small turbos.

    160bhp version is available but only in sport spec with big wheels. SE-L with Nav is the way to go for ride quality, and your Mazda Dealer can upgrade the screen quite easily to Android/apple car play.

    Get them to throw it in if you buy from a Mazda Dealer.

    And make sure you buy a Soul Red one.

    Premier Icon bsims
    Free Member

    Turbos, electronic engine control etc can get higher peak power with reliability from smaller engines. This is better for tax, fuel etc so for a short term lease I would go for that but a 4 year old car that I would keep for another 8-10 years I would go for the least complicated to avoid potential problems. Larger engines are often still nicer to drive as well, the smaller turbo might feel quicker but it most likely requires more driver input.*

    The key, I think is making the correct choice for your circumstances now and factor in possible future scenarios.

    Edit: * as per bails’ experience.

    Premier Icon 5lab
    Free Member

    Have a look at plug in hybrids as well. For a 15 mile roundtrip all of them will do it on just electricity. If that’s each way, the petrol engine might kick in at the end

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Full Member

    ain’t no replacement for displacement, though

    There literally is, it’s called forced induction.

    Premier Icon jam-bo
    Full Member

    And if I really wanted a “cheap to run” pissing contest, I’d talk about my other car that has 500bhp, costs nothing to tax or service, and costs £3.50 to fill the ‘tank’.

    is that the one that cost’s you £700 a month to rent?

    man math’s at its finest….;-)

    Premier Icon bsims
    Free Member

    There literally is, it’s called forced induction.

    I knew someone would say that😀. I agree. However, the riposte is forced induction on a larger engine.

    As I said above modern engines produce impressive figures with turbos and the like but a larger capacity engine still generally has better driving characteristics. It is not always about flat out as I’m sure you are aware.

    Edit. We had a 1.8 Yaris and 4 up would pull from idle in any gear up a slight incline in that lights have just changed situation when you are slowing to a stop. A friends Golf 1.4 twin charger would bog down in the doldrums. Not quite the same and anecdotal I know. The Golf seemed much faster when it came on boost down slip roads etc.

    Premier Icon Dickyboy
    Full Member

    @snotrag

    SE-L with Nav is the way to go for ride quality, and your Mazda Dealer can upgrade the screen quite easily to Android/apple car play.

    That’s the one we’re test driving & it’s soul red 🙂 thanks for the heads up on the screen upgrade.

    Premier Icon flannol
    Free Member

    Agree with the sentiments re: boosted tiny engines. They’re amazing. And nice and quiet, and get on happily at motorway speeds (because they sit in the exact boost range at 70-80mph, about 2000rpm)

    I have borrowed my mum’s B-Max 1.0 125ps a few times and even though technically it’s not, god it feels gutless when you accelerate. It just wheezes up a couple thousand RPM then just feels absolutely terrible. BUT they are not designed for people who want to ‘accelerate’. They’re drive by wire so they are designed to give you full throttle at very minimal pedal input, which is absolutely enough power for most people who use those cars. They’d never consider pressing harder (and finding there’s nothing more to give). So it works, and it’s clever

    I also distinctly remember there being absolutely NOTHING if you’re under boost. So a normal car if you’re in gear 3 rolling very slowly (eg 10mph) and you accelerate it’ll pick up without you needing to change gear, no issue at all. Small boosted engines are not a fan of that – at all.

    Just waffling I realise

    Premier Icon joebristol
    Full Member

    I’d go petrol in that circumstance I think. I’ve had a 2 litre diesel company car for the last 4.5 years until recently the scheme ended and hasn’t been replaced. Prior to that I’d had 3 turbo diesel cars as well (all 2 litre).

    This time I decided as I’m likely to be driving a lot less to go petrol given the various ulez type schemes coming in plus a lot more short journeys and less long ones to regenerate the dpf.

    It’s much nicer to drive if you actually like driving – the engine revs much better and isn’t just a short wave of torque. It’s also much quieter at idle and less chuggy sounding.

    This is comparing a 2 litre diesel Jaguar XE vs a 2 litre petrol Jaguar XF Sportbrake.

    My wife has a 1.2 turbo petrol automatic Qashqai which has 115bhp. The general drive is horrible and wallowy in terms of suspension and steering feel, but the engine does surprisingly well. It’s not outrageously slow and it’s happy at motorway speeds. Fairly fuel efficient – although not diesel efficient.

    Premier Icon bensales
    Free Member

    is that the one that cost’s you £700 a month to rent?

    Yeah but that’s not a running cost, it’s a purchase cost 🙂

    Premier Icon db
    Full Member

    I went from a series of 2ltr diesels to a 1.5 petrol (VAG) and now a 3 cyl 999cc petrol. Mileage has dropped massively over the last c10 years with covid being the final nail.

    Honestly not driving any differently, the 1ltr petrol is fine for uk driving and perfect for our mix of lots of short journeys and occasional longer runs up to Scotland. I do notice the load a little more with petrol (regularly carrying canoes) but I’m not really comparing like for like in terms of engine size.

    Premier Icon jam-bo
    Full Member

    do you own it?

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Full Member

    It’s much nicer to drive if you actually like driving – the engine revs much better and isn’t just a short wave of torque

    I dunno what diesel you were driving but the ‘short wave of torque’ hasn’t been a thing since the early 00s

    Premier Icon pedlad
    Full Member

    short wave of torque hasn’t been a thing since the early 00s

    Not sure really I agree as I’ve had numerous diesels since then and they are really only effective once the turbo kicks in from 1900 rpm and are pretty much done by 4500rpm – going beyond that only really brings some more unpleasant noise and no more performance whereas a shift up a gear drops you back into the torque and away you go again. Exception to this was a Honda Accord I had for a while, which revved very freely, more like a petrol….but didn’t quite have the same slug of torque as the BMWs and VWs.

    Premier Icon stumpy01
    Full Member

    You can’t just look at the rev range of a diesel when looking at performance.
    They are geared much longer than a higher revving petrol, so you get similar speed/acceleration for a given gear but the speed gain per engine rev will be different.

    If you drive by the revs, then yes you might find it runs out of puff at the top-end but it’s pointless doing that.

    I’ve owned diesel cars since 2006 and can’t remember ever wishing that the engine revved higher…

    Premier Icon bensales
    Free Member

    jam-bo

    do you own it?

    Honestly, who gives a ****? Stop being a dickhead, you know what I meant.

    Premier Icon jam-bo
    Full Member

    i don’t really care how much you do or don’t spend on a car, but it is creative accounting at its finest to suggest that the running costs of your choices are low.

    maybe you should be in sales..

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Full Member

    they are really only effective once the turbo kicks in from 1900 rpm and are pretty much done by 4500rpm

    Turbo will spin from pretty low down, 1300-1400, but as said it’s not engine speed you want to be thinking about it’s wheel speed. And with the longer gears the usable power band on a turbo diesel is, in my experience, much better than a NA petrol. Turbo petrols do have more usable rev range but it makes no difference in driving. Maybe you’d be in 4th where you would have been in 3rd otherwise but the extra torque means it doesn’t really matter, you still shift just as well.

    Older VWs between about 1992 and ooh, 2004 had the mechanical PD engine which was the one that gave you all the torque in a narrow band.

    Premier Icon ayjaydoubleyou
    Free Member

    I think diesel tends to be worth the possible extra hassle/costs if you’re doing over 15k miles a year.

    I think that long standing “quote” was based on the higher cost of a NEW diesel vs an otherwise equivilent new petrol, versus the running cost savings which would be mainly fuel savings due to increased economy.

    Premier Icon ayjaydoubleyou
    Free Member

    FWIW last winter when fun was prohibited but work was allowed, my car probably did very few journeys longer than 10 miles.
    2.0 2013 VAG diesel. No issues, no DPF warning come on.

    Premier Icon Dickyboy
    Full Member

    Update: 2018 2.0l petrol Mazda 3 test driven & bought, not as punchy as the diesel but no need to keep stirring the gearbox so happy enough & the first car I’ve bought in about 25yrs 🙂

    Premier Icon boblo
    Free Member

    That’s a good choice for the sort of motoring you outlined in the OP. We went similar with Mrs Boblo’s motor a few years ago.

    She had a succession of 2l Ford diesels that were nice to drive and economical to run and buy. The last one ate clutches and DMF’s for breakfast and at 8k miles p/a, wasn’t worth the aggro (and expense).

    We bought a 1.8 n/a 150bhp petrol Civic which was perfect (though feels gutless unless revved) and then another which she’s 5 years and 25k miles into now. Again, zero issues.

    I’m not a fan of small engines turboed and worked hard. They don’t tend to last IME so we’ll go similar again come the day unless leccy has caught up (~500 miles range/15 min charge/freely available charging infrastructure).

    Premier Icon bensales
    Free Member

    Update: 2018 2.0l petrol Mazda 3 test driven & bought, not as punchy as the diesel but no need to keep stirring the gearbox so happy enough & the first car I’ve bought in about 25yrs

    Good choice. Did you get a red one? I wish we had but my wife wanted “Lease White” and it is her car…. But the red is possibly the best red I’ve ever seen on a car, apart from Porsche Guards Red.

    Premier Icon dc1988
    Free Member

    They definitely feel different to drive compared to a diesel (or petrol turbo) but once you’re used to it I find it far better, no turbo lag and if you want to get a move on then just drop a few gears to up your revs. NA beats forced induction IMO

    Premier Icon Dickyboy
    Full Member

    Did you get a red one?

    Yep, “soul red” 18k miles, one owner, mazda fsh on the nail each year, hopefully it’ll be a great car for us but it’s the end of fitting the tandem in our car…

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