It’s more about the complete lack of method in their opinion….getting on in some cases for conspiracy theory proportions.

But that’s the whole point of an opinion. Your inability to cope with another world view shows a complete lack of tolerance that I doubt you’d extend to those who practice religion for example.

If their arguments are so flawed then pragmatically dismantle them. If they decline to agree then agree to disagree and move on to other topics.

I personally would never let an opinion on Brexit sway my friendship. I can totally see why remain makes sense to people from different backgrounds than me.
But if a mate is a sound person, despite being wrong over Brexit, then I’m not going let that ruin the rest of our relationship 😉

Sounds like you’re the problem to me. I have a good number of debates with mates with differing political views.

This. If you can’t discuss/argue about politics and still be mates there’s something seriously wrong.

Not that.

Why waste your time with people you despise? Seems like an awful waste of time IMO.

Deeply ingrained Brexiteers are some of the most unpleasant people living. Seems pointless talking to them, even being in the same room as them.
I’d suggest if you have to go, which of course you don’t, then stay well clear of them and if you get caught up in a conversation with them and they turn the topic to any racist or Brexit related conversation simply get up and walk off.
Boorish people are just boorish and boring, you’ve nothing in common and making polite conversation will result in boorish bigoted one-liners.

<span style=”font-size: 0.8rem;”>Life is afterall too short to “mix” with em’</span>

IMO

But why should you despise someone who has a different opinion?
Why do the left believe everyone should think the same?

If someone is kind, funny, generous, interesting and into the same things as me, why should their stance on Brexit mean I could no longer tolerate them?

I thought Brexiteers were supposed to be the closed minded bigots 🤷🏻‍♂️

There is just nothing in common is there, and why listen to the same old narrow minded arguments.

You can’t educate nor argue with them, they’re just ingrained in their own self importance.

Seems pointless to me. Surround yourself with like minded people, it’ll make your life far happier.

I’m happy to have stopped talking to a couple of old sailing mates because of their stance on the subject, I once thought them rational people but once the brexit topic came up they turned all racist and narrow minded. Glad I found out TBH, thats the true test of friendship if you ‘ve got nothing in common no need to waste time with them.

I suppose in some ways I’ve picked up intolerance from them, but instead of it being based on race/creed/colour or little garland attitude it’s more about rational intelligence and being able to work together for a common good for all.. I realise that my beliefs don’t agree with theirs and I won’t support them or listen to em’.

I just wait until the topic pops up and realise that the conversations ended and walk off.

I’ve happily not attended family get to aethers because of it and they all know the reasons why I’ve not attended. Granted the choice is mine alone on this, because I’ve been invited but turned it down.

I just think that this topic has deeper more sinister connotations than simply voting for brexit. And I don’t like it.

So yeah, my attitude is 🤷‍♂️ also.

Why waste your time with people you despise? Seems like an awful waste of time IMO.

I’d not waste time with people I despise, you’d be crazy to do so out of choice. But if you despise someone purely because of their opinions over Brexit and politics…….. man you’ve lost your way badly somewhere.

There is a stunning amount of intolerant comments in this thread about a position that adopts a sharing caring love in with Europe as being the correct answer

How about sharing & caring for your relative/friend/neighbour first? Life’s challenge is not to love those who love you but more, to love those who you don’t like…

You can’t educate nor argue with them, they’re just ingrained in their own self importance.
Pot, kettle, black.

But why should you despise someone who has a different opinion?

Because all opinions are not equal. It’s not like “tolerating” your mate supporting City when you’re a United fan.

If someone is of the opinion that “all the **** should **** off back where they came from” or “all the faggots should die of AIDS,” are these opinions that should be respected and we should simply just agree to disagree?

Why do the left believe everyone should think the same?

They don’t. Next question?

OP,

I’m getting to the point of struggling to remain civil with acquaintances/colleagues and the odd friend, because the politics of today is revealing the worst in people.

Are you saying that your colleagues, who are as qualified as you are at doing their jobs probably same rank/level whatever, are illogical? 😆

I am surrounded by remainers at work which is opposite to your case but I never discuss politics with them.

If someone is of the opinion that “all the **** should **** off back where they came from” or “all the faggots should die of AIDS,” are these opinions that should be respected and we should simply just agree to disagree?

How often do you actually meet people with views like that ? I kow hundreds of people and even if some thought that they’d never exprese those opinions publicly. Your just using extreme examples to try and illustrate your point. The topic is friendship and politics, I can’t belive anyone on here would be friends in the first place with someone who though “all faggots should die of aids” How about someone who voted leave because the believed rightly or wrongly their kids couldn’t get into the local primary because it was over subscribed due to imigrants from the EU ? Are they scum as well.

Are you saying that your colleagues, who are as qualified as you are at doing their jobs probably same rank/level whatever, are illogical?

Yes….”They could gang up on the UK and pass a law we didn’t vote for”
“I don’t want people I haven’t elected making my laws”
“Can you give any examples of an EU law being enforced that our MEPs didn’t vote for?”
……silence…..
“What will you do if people in Scotland and Cornwall enforce a law on you in Yorksire”
….silence….

This is from someone whose job involves risk management…..

why listen to the same old narrow minded arguments.

You can’t educate nor argue with them, they’re just ingrained in their own self importance.

Art.

Because all opinions are not equal. It’s not like “tolerating” your mate supporting City when you’re a United fan.

If someone is of the opinion that “all the **** should **** off back where they came from” or “all the faggots should die of AIDS,” are these opinions that should be respected and we should simply just agree to disagree?

They are not comparable examples. As you well know.
Wanting to leave a trading bloc does not equate to holding those kind of extreme views.
But as you ask- no, I wouldn’t disassociate myself with someone who said those things. It would knock the shine off for sure but it wouldn’t necessarily undermine all the other good things about them.
I certainly wouldn’t tie personal anger management issues and feelings of despair in to the fact that some old codger who I share a beer with in the pub is stuck in the 1950’s.
In fact, I’d enjoy robustly challenging them on their unacceptable views and trying to make them a better human being. That’s what a functioning society should be capable of doing.

They don’t. Next question?

They do consistently on a huge range of topics. It’s not enough for them to hold a view point and rigorously defend it in good humour. No- they have to vilify their opponents and stamp their feet to try and make everyone think and act like them.

I guess when you rely on the herd for safety, nobody wants to stand next to the black sheep 😉

It’s also a bit of a Nazi trait- “ themes in Nazism include the argument that superior people have a right to dominate other people and purge society of supposed inferior elements.” Again leading to irony overdrive 🤣

I totally sympathise with the op. When you come to realise that family and friends who previously seemed pretty average are actually racists, xenophobes or just incredibly selfish it isn’t really a case of sucking it up.

My dad is quite happy for us to crash out with no deal because he simply hates Europeans. No explanation is given. He simply couldn’t wait to vote out and seems delighted at the possibility of the worst possible outcome. I do my best to stay off the subject but he seems to revel in the fact that his 2 children, one of whom is married to a “foreigner”, voted to remain and loves to bring the subject up.

My inlaws, 2 of the best grandparents you could imagine, are froth at the mouth leavers, again with very little explanation as to why. I won’t touch the subject with them now.

I’ve got friends who voted leave. I’ve never spoken with them about it. I just don’t want to know their reasons.

Just by saying ‘They’ and meaning all of those people shows intolerance, just like all the racists and homophobes.

I’m as staunch a remainer as the next lefty snowflake…. but even I know that not all brexiteers are racist. If you think ‘they’ are you’re letting the right wing wackos like Farage win!

It’s very easy to de-friend people with whom you disagree on political matters. I think this is slightly dangerous, as you end up in your own little bubble where everyone agrees and nothing is challenged.

My business partner and I have opposite views on Brexit, but we respect each other’s standpoint. I admit that this would be harder for me if his stance was based on xenophobia or suchlike, but it isn’t.

JP

How often do you actually meet people with views like that ?

Not very often at all, not least because I disassociated myself from people like that decades ago. It absolutely does happen though, racism especially, and this nonsense has drawn them out of the woodwork and empowered them. I can give you a few examples if you think I’m making this up.

Your just using extreme examples to try and illustrate your point.

Correct. Did it work, or am I still in the “intolerant” camp?

How about someone who voted leave because the believed rightly or wrongly their kids couldn’t get into the local primary because it was over subscribed due to imigrants from the EU ? Are they scum as well.

If they believed it “rightly or wrongly” and steadfastly refuse to revise their opinion when it’s later demonstrated that it was, in fact, “wrongly,” then they’re probably heading in that direction. I wouldn’t go as far as to say “scum,” though that’s your choice of words not mine.

I left the country.

So did I. Funnily enough, this self important, ‘why can’t the world be more like us’ attitude isn’t peculiar to the English xenophobes. It’s just that the English xenophobes tend to bring up things like WW2 and ‘was colonialism really such a bad thing?’ so it’s more obvious.

Most other countries have a significant minority (and sometimes a majority) of the population who are just aching to kick out all the foreigners and go back to living in some decades old rose tinted fantasy.

Wanting to leave a trading bloc does not equate to holding those kind of extreme views.

“Wanting to leave a trading block” isn’t really cited as a reason all that often, is it.

Anyway, that wasn’t the point. Rather, a few posters were saying we shouldn’t fall out with people because of their opinions and it’s “intolerant” if you do, I was just trying to poke a hole in that notion.

But as you ask- no, I wouldn’t disassociate myself with someone who said those things. It would knock the shine off for sure but it wouldn’t necessarily undermine all the other good things about them.

Then that would be a convenient example of a perfectly fine “opinion” for us to agree to differ on. Because if one of my friends came out with something as abhorrent as that to my face then I’d never speak to them again.

steadfastly refuse to revise their opinion when it’s later demonstrated that it was, in fact, “wrongly,” then they’re probably heading in that direction.

But if their friends it wouldn’t matter, you just shrug your shoulders and agree to disagree. Thats how most people get through the day. Intense political discussions that lead to fractured relationships aren’t all that common, in my experience anyway. It’s probably on here that I experience the most strident of opinions, and that’s largly due to the anonymity offered by the internet.

Then that would be a convenient example of a perfectly fine “opinion” for us to agree to differ on. Because if one of my friends came out with something as abhorrent as that to my face then I’d never speak to them again.

It sounds like you act with the same zeal in real life as you do when closing threads on this forum. I guess at least you’re consistent.

JP

You either learn to live with people who have different political views than you or you do the other.

Just have a war. Like on here but bigger.

I’ve lost my two bike mates from my office – they’ve moved to another office – we can’t bore people to death talking bikes and crashing/injuries. Fortunately, politics aren’t discussed in work, everyone is sick of it. My mates don’t discuss it either.

I don’t have a problem with Brexiteers per se. I might have a problem with someone who voted Brexit to kick out the foreigners or some other racist reason, but I’m good friends with a Brexiteer who genuinely feels it will enable us to make more equitable trade deals with developing nations.

@Jp Nice one 🤣

It’s like many of these faux controversial TV progs where someone spends a day or a week with a ‘trump supporter’ or a ‘fox hunter’ or a ‘ghastly rich tory’. I bet they seem terribly risqué at the production meeting amongst a likeminded bunch of freshly graduated urban woke-warriors.
Turns out after one awkward conversation, the rest of the stay passes in dull non-controversy where they eat together, laugh together, cry together, bond and form a ‘surprising’ relationship.
Turns out in real life, people are much greater than the sum of their Twitter bio’s!

But if their friends it wouldn’t matter, you just shrug your shoulders and agree to disagree. Thats how most people get through the day.

Except, someone clinging to racist / ignorant views despite clear evidence to the contrary probably has many other character “qualities” which would mean that if not exactly “falling out” with them per se would probably mean that I wouldn’t be overly inclined to spend much time with them.

I have no shortage of friends, I don’t need to put up with that sort of nonsense. So I don’t. Life’s too short.

It sounds like you act with the same zeal in real life as you do when closing threads on this forum. I guess at least you’re consistent.

Classy.

I spent years of my life putting up with people who were variously toxic just because they were “friends.” My life has been improved no end by me cutting them out of it.

I don’t have this problem as everyone I work with or socialise with voted remain.

This is not traditional left or right politics I’d much rather spend time with a moderate Tory than a delusional Corbynista. In fact I’m married to one and her political views have never been an issue between us.

The reason why Brexit is so divisive compared to normal politics is that there is an assumption by remainers that many of those that voted leave are xenophobes, racist, little Englanders who don’t care about the damage that leaving the EU is doing and will do to our economy. I’m sure that this isn’t true as there are definitely other reasons why some people voted leave but there’s a bit guilt by association.

You can share the same views as Bill Cash, Rees-Mogg, Michael Gove, Arran Banks, Morrissey, Toby Young, Katie Hopkins, Tim Matin, Julia Hartley-Brewer, the whole of the BNP and Britain First and my racist great Uncle John or you could decide that maybe I support the other side

I’m going back to my bubble of well-educated colleagues and echo-chamber Remainer friends.

there is an assumption by remainers that many of those that voted leave are xenophobes, racist, little Englanders who don’t care about the damage that leaving the EU is doing and will do to our economy.

But many of them demonstrably are.

The important thing though is to remember that, equally, many of them are not.

that there is an assumption by remainers that many of those that voted leave are xenophobes, racist, little Englanders who don’t care about the damage that leaving the EU is doing and will do to our economy

No, my assumption is that they are pigshit thick morons. With one exception…..

The only valid reason for voting Brexit is a last ditch protest vote against the ever increasing Londonisation of the country and the prevailing view amongst the powers that be that anything north or west of Reading is basically just there to collect drinking water for the capital. People who have very little and voted Brexit in the full knowledge that even that little will soon be taken away from them after Brexit. They voted Brexit as a last ditch attempt to get the SE government to take notice and give a shit about them. they know they will be **** by Brexit, but they are **** anyway…. What do they have to lose…

That, I can understand. Any other “reason” for voting Brexit is utter bollox.

Apart from hedge fund managers and others who stand to gain by **** over their fellow countrymen.

Guess who’s just had a bottle of wine..

TBH, I spent a year in apartheid era South Africa as a teenager. I won’t claim to be a paragon of political correctness but I’ve a minority of acquaintances who seem to think that it’s okay to mock non-whites and who conflate FOM with terrorists who apparently want to blow things up.

Actually, I privately refer to them as “c***s” mainly because they are.

I guess then it comes down to proxy reasons why someone would passionately want to exit the world’s largest trading bloc. It’s funny, you can never get a fact checked explanation for it. I wonder why?

Accusations of racism and xenophobia are thrown at Leavers too easily, I agree.

Harder to argue against the charges of ignorance (often wilful), susceptibility to propaganda and general bloody-mindedness though.

I’m good friends with a Brexiteer who genuinely feels it will enable us to make more equitable trade deals with developing nations.

This comes under susceptibility to propaganda, I assume.

who genuinely feels it will enable us to make more equitable trade deals with developing nations.

That’s fine as long as it’s backed up by some data/analysis. I.e. what industries will suffer from a more distant EU relationship and which ones will benefit from trading with ehich markets they were unable to before? By how much? Is there a net benefit not just economically but over all the other things we get by being part of the EU thst we will now have to pay to do ourselves?

Part of my frustration is that just “feeling/believing” isn’t good enough for something that affects the country’s short and long term future significantly.

an assumption by remainers that many of those that voted leave are xenophobes, racist, little Englanders who don’t care about the damage that leaving the EU is doing and will do to our economy.

In my experience this is a proven assumption in SOME cases.

Me “Is there anything that would persuade you that Brexit isn’t worth it?”
“I don’t want foreigners voting on my laws bloke”: “Not really”.

Then you have all the “We didn’t vote for a deal, get out now people, on local as well as national social media”. The book (Factfulness) I’m reading now however warns me against assuming that this is representative without more data.

warns me against assuming that this is representative without more data.

I’ve long held that with any demographic it’s the shouty minority which give the rest a bad name. I’m pretty sure, for instance, that the vast majority of brown people with beards aren’t Islamic terrorists.

I’ve long held that with any demographic it’s the shouty minority which give the rest a bad name. I’m pretty sure, for instance, that the vast majority of brown people with beards aren’t Islamic terrorists.

Yet the reporting of isolated examples still leads people to believe that the EU (which is “them”, not “us”) make all our laws, constrain us from trading with the rest of the world and flood us with immigrant criminals who get a council house, benefits and free healthcare the day they arrive, prioritised over British people.

And in isolation, it’s easy to understand how people might think that if their only source of news is the Daily Express. What grinds my gears is when presented with the truth, backed up with easily verifiable evidence, people double-down rather than going “oh, I didn’t realise.”

Like, there are many many things I’m ignorant of. I’ve made statements on this very forum over the years without stopping to check properly, been corrected by more knowledgeable people, then kicked myself and gone, “sorry, every day’s a school day, I should’ve researched better before posting.”

I think many of the shouty leave people on the Internet simply want to believe it.

I’m pretty sure, for instance, that the vast majority of brown people with beards aren’t Islamic terrorists.

Well I’m absolutely certain that Mr Farooq (Muslim, big beard) the consultant surgeon who looked after Mrs Egf during a bowel cancer ‘episode’ Isn’t a terrorist otherwise he’d have popped her off shirley?

Anyway, this is just turning into another Brexit/EU, are you in or out thread.
Sort it out mods FFS.

It’s the dawning realisation that the general population are, on the whole, deeply unpleasant people.

It’s all about openness. A lot of us on here, no matter whether we are right or left wing are more open to new experiences than the general population. Most of my friends are what I would call mercenary and adventurous, we don’t have much loyalty to anyone or anything and we tend to view morality as relative. I have for example, an innate ability to fit in and connect to people no matter what country I am in, I am completely confident that if I was given a few grand and told to start a new life in Japan, I could – however because of this, I am biased and expect others to be like myself.

The vast majority of the population are not as adventurous or as open and are morally authoritarian. In a different era we would have been sailors or naval officers depending on our class, with women in various ports and the rest of the population would have never have been to the next town let alone abroad.

They aren’t like us and they never will be, it’s best just to ignore them and get on with forging a new world, time won’t stop for them.