I’m getting to the point of struggling to remain civil with acquaintances/colleagues and the odd friend, because the politics of today is revealing the worst in people.

How do you cope with even wanting to engage with people who come up with what in my opinion are totally illogical/xenophobic or sometimes just blatantly wrong statements like (all real examples):

“We’ll send all the EU citizens home and train up British people to do the jobs”
“I think any MP who supports remain should never be allowed to enter parliament again”
“Escape from the evil EU”
“I don’t pay any attention to economic forecasts by expert bodies because they are just a view on what might happen”
In response to ask for links to benefits of no-deal “Just google world’s fastest growing economies and EU Army”
“I want to be free of EU because all the other countries could gang up against the UK and force a law we haven’t voted for” (can’t give any examples of where this has happened”
“I voted leave just for a change”
“I won’t vote Labour because they use my taxes to pay for scroungers”
“I just believe….”

Learn to change the subject fast.

New friends.

Depends on how extreme their position is and whether they are willing to have a sensible discussion.
Some of those statements are pretty much a lost cause but others not so much.

It’s the dawning realisation that the general population are, on the whole, deeply unpleasant people.

New Friends

It’s the dawning realisation that the general population are, on the whole, deeply unpleasant people.

While it might look that way from Facebook comments, etc. I suspect the ignorant dickhead minority’s voices are being amplified – while the semi-ignorant not-really-dickhead majority might just quietly vote the other way if there was a second referendum.

I left the country.

In many of these cases I have little choice but to encounter them – example going out for Mrs’ friends birthday on Saturday with Brexiteer “other halves”….not looking forward to it already.

These seemed like perfectly reasonable people until the subject of Brexit arose.

New friends

This

going out for Mrs’ friends birthday on Saturday with Brexiteer “other halves”

Just tell them they are wrong, stay calm and let them get shouty if they are wrong

To be honest, I think you’re best off adhering to the old adage to never discuss politics or religion in polite company.

Where that’s not possible, you have to accept that you may have a parting of views, and that the friendship may or may not be strong enough to weather that.

I also think if you’re talking about your wife’s friends and their partners, you don’t need to really do much more than be generally polite — these people don’t have to be *your* best mates, and there’s no real need to be calling them out on opinions you disagree with. Especially on the topic of Brexit: you won’t be persuading anyone of anything at this point, so better just to nod, smile, and change the topic to something less divisive IMO.

A lesson I learned far too late in life is that life is too short to spend it in the company of arseholes.

And yet here you are, Cougar.

Point and laugh.

To be honest, I think you’re best off adhering to the old adage to never discuss politics or religion in polite company.

In reality do this unless they become extreme then tell them to do one.

Sounds like you’re the problem to me. I have a good number of debates with mates with differing political views. We’ll argue tooth and nail over a beer or two, but eventually the subject will change and it’s all good mature debate and we move on to more important topics of discussion. If you can’t stand the fact that your mates might have different views and think your opinions are better or somehow worth more than theirs then I suggest you look within yourself for the root cause of the issue.

You can of course change your friends for those with the same opinions, but the essence of politics is to expose yourself to differing views and opinions so you can continually test and question your own opinions and learn something form other people. But if you think you’re above all that and have it all worked out then you probably need to step away from politics all together.

There is nowt more important in life that friends. If you’re willing to ditch them over a few minor squabbles over politics then you’ll probably find yourself at some point in the future regretting it. Politics moves on. Good mates don’t.

And yet here you are, Cougar.

Hah, good point.

it’s all good mature debate and we move on to more important topics of discussion

not everyone is capable of this

I just don’t talk about brexit any more. I know one friend who voted leave, she has her reasons and to be honest they are as valid as my remain reasons really. I don’t know what her husband (my mate) voted and dont care. I suspect a couple of other mates voted leave but I have never asked them.

Life’s to short, what’s gonna happen is gonna happen, if they were friends before brexit there must have been a reason for it, concentrate on that…

Sounds like you’re the problem to me. I have a good number of debates with mates with differing political views.

This. If you can’t discuss/argue about politics and still be mates there’s something seriously wrong. People say stupid stuff for all sorts of reasons. With brexit we all know the propaganda that is out there and how it influences people. Most people don’t pay any attention to the detail other than what they read in the paper or see on facebook, and probably don’t care enough about it to seriously think about it. Just because you might think something is a massively important issue many others may not.

All you can do is calmly and logically explain why you think they’re wrong. Have you tried asking them some simple questions as to why they think that way? I find that with some simple and friendly questioning, they will admit that they don’t know enough one way or the other. At that point you can invite them to go away and properly inform themselves.

Tell them their stupid and we should have another vote because we don’t like the result. OR better yet don’t discuss it or go in the first place.

My friends wife has alerted me to the fact that white people now have to give up bus seats to black people.

If I am somewhere I have to be polite I say I do not want to discuss a highly decisive subjectf the conversation continues I state that opinions are like arseholes. If it continues further I tell them what they are saying is bullshit unless they present some evidence so either change the subject or shut up.

This method works for me.

There is nowt more important in life that friends. If you’re willing to ditch them over a few minor squabbles over politics then you’ll probably find yourself at some point in the future regretting it. Politics moves on. Good mates don’t.

seeing someone express ignorance & xenophobia is going to effect how you think of them & your attitude toward them

Tell them their stupid

People still discuss Brexit in public? – the mind boggles..

Tell them about mtb wheel sizes and axle standards .

It’s the dawning realisation that the general population are, on the whole, deeply unpleasant people.

They actually aren’t, really. They just can’t identify with the people they consider to be ‘them’.

If for example a friend fell on hard times, and lost his flat and was facing life on the street etc – most people would be concerned and try to help. At the very least they would listen and sympathise, they would take their side against the nasty authorities or whoever had precipitated the problem, and they are likely to defend that person.

However, when it’s someone they don’t know, they think the worst of that person. So they say ‘well it’s all their own fault’ and then they get annoyed when they get handouts when things have gone wrong and it’s their own fault.

We all view things completely differently when it’s someone you know and care about – even when the situation is exactly the same. The same mistakes in life are not looked on sympathetically if it’s someone you don’t know compared with someone you do. This is how we end up with people being friends with immigrants, but still complaining about immigrants: ‘Oh not you, you’re alright, it’s THEM that are the problem’.

This is why the real differentiator between the left and the right is where you draw the boundary between ‘us’ and ‘them’.

I envy you and Brexit, we have HK and China, at least you get a chance to discuss it freely and to vote on it.

Good point stewartc.

We need to appreciate what we have

There is nowt more important in life that friends

This just such a load of utter horse54it.

You must live in a 1st world bubble where actual, very bad things only happen on the front page of the Guardian.

In terms of personal wellbeing, the person you are flaming may actually have an excellent point.

Studies have shown that as Lefties become more educated- they get less tolerant of other views and close ranks to spend more time with those who share their own opinions.
Which is ironic as most of these sorts look down on everyone else as being xenophobic bigots 🙄

If you can’t have a calm and rational debate with someone- no matter how entrenched their opposing view, then it likely means the fault lies with you and your superiority complex.

Basically- get out of your cosy bubble and practice some empathy.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/21/democrats-republicans-political-beliefs-national-survey-poll

The people I’ve found myself disagreeing with most vehemently aren’t the obvious ones who I’d have originally thought – UKIP voting racists – but the couple of Lexiteers I know

Both are pleasent, intelligent, well-educated and open-minded blokes who are left-leaning on everything else, yet are as vehemently anti-EU as Farage himself.

I’ve had plenty of discussions with them and I find their opinions absolutely incomprehensible. They buy into the full thing about the EU being some grand capitalist conspiracy to oppress the workers. They’re also both now at the point where they don’t seem to care what form Brexit takes, no matter how right wing, as long as we ‘just get out!’

Mad!

If you can’t have a calm and rational debate with someone

But you can’t have any type of rational discussion who says irrational things like “there has been no new information since the vote. The deal and the analysis of the deal/no-deal is not new information because I don’t believe in forecasts or expert analysis. I just believe it will be better”.

Sometimes you have to accept that people have different views to you, unless they’re talking about genocide or the like as a ‘solution’ I can tolerate most things.

My Wife is a socialist, I’m more of a Democratic Socialist (or New Labour Tory Scum to some). We vote differently most elections, it doesn’t cause any upset at home, or views are largely compatible, but she’s an NHS worker and I’m a former Banker with an interest in Economics.

At least 1 of my Friend’s is a ‘kipper or maybe Brexit Party voter now. Sadly it’s his raging depression that makes him want to tear everything down rather than Xenophobia as such.

1 of my friends seems to quite likes Stephen Yaxley-Lennon. Not because he’s a racist, but he hates ‘the man’ and “Tommy” says it “as it is”.

1 of my friends never talks about politics, but is real old-money Landed Gentry.

1 of my friends is a Eurosceptic Tory and spouts absolute fiction and half truths as justification.

1 of my friends is a ‘pragmatic’ Tory who wants Brexit done so we can move on, but by ‘done’ he means the May/BJ deal because it’s the quickest route to resolution.

I’m happy to have a debate about things if they want, but I won’t argue, most of the time. It gets filed along side Religion as subjects not suitable for polite conversations 😉

But you can’t have any type of rational discussion who says irrational things like “there has been no new information since the vote. The deal and the analysis of the deal/no-deal is not new information because I don’t believe in forecasts or expert analysis. I just believe it will be better”.

Depends how you define better 😉

If you want to leave the EU at any cost then it patently will be better. But if you lack the ability to empathise with someone who isn’t concerned about taking their handbag dog skiing with them or making sure their Barista has the correct authentic accent then it obviously won’t be…

Again- lack of empathy on your part is the root cause.

Again- lack of empathy on your part is the root cause.

I’m not sure empathy is the right word. This isn’t just about personal opinion, for example, why they like mountain biking and won’t touch a road bike but I like both.

It’s more about the complete lack of method in their opinion….getting on in some cases for conspiracy theory proportions. Given that it affects my and my children’s future, it’s much more important than what type of biking you like.

Both are pleasent, intelligent, well-educated and open-minded blokes who are left-leaning on everything else, yet are as vehemently anti-EU as Farage himself.

I’ve had plenty of discussions with them and I find their opinions absolutely incomprehensible. They buy into the full thing about the EU being some grand capitalist conspiracy to oppress the workers. They’re also both now at the point where they don’t seem to care what form Brexit takes, no matter how right wing, as long as we ‘just get out!’

Mad!

Brexit has often been thought of as a left v right argument because it fits in neatly with our two-party Labour v Tories view of things, but it’s really not.

A lot of people are fundamentally opposed to Globalisation and the EU is a sort of continent-isation. Part of Globalisation means that high skilled work goes to the richer more educated areas, and the lower skilled work goes to the poorer areas with lower costs of living. There is a cost to this, whilst the UK and our EU partners have all become wealthier over-all as part of the EU it’s left large numbers of people behind.

The UK’s role in the EU and the rest of the world is Financial Service, ‘the city’ provides a huge part of our GDP which in turn makes the UK a wealthy country, it doesn’t matter if we’re part of the € or keep the £, it would be inefficient to open a large scale, low skilled workplace in the UK instead of say Bulgaria which has a much lower cost of living and lower wages as such.

The EU understands all this so they invest in redevelop in areas who’s industries have been damaged by our form of Globalisation which should, in the long term provide opportunities for people who live there to establish themselves in the ‘right’ industry for their country/area because only a tiny number of people will use their freedom of movement to move from say Bridgend when Ford leaves to Romainia. It’s like a sort of Economic Terraforming and takes decades sometimes.

That’s why Corbyn was always anti-EU (prior to becoming leader) at the same time as someone like JRM. Corbyn wants to reverse Globalisation to have a more mixed economy in the UK, JRM wants to extend it past the EU to have a more focused London based economy. They actually both have their merits, but they’re ideological ones, the people who want it are generally the wealthier, older people who can weather the long years of economic pain to get there. Personally I don’t want to give up my cushy office job to dig coal, or to join the dole queue when our entire GDP is created by a few hundred suits in ‘the city’.

One of my closest mates growing up has turned into some sort of hard right Breitbart sharing harpie who opines that “Britain is full” but who has birthed four kids. She owns her own home, holidays six days a year despite being the bar manager at a rugby club and is always quick to lecture about millenials spending their money on avocado toast which is why they can’t buy houses.

She married and subsequently divorced an estate agent. It’s fairly obvious that maintenance provides for the majority of her disposable income. Oh and she had the cheek to tell me that “doctors don’t know everything” when I expressed concern about my stepson’s insulin supply post Brexit.

She used to be alight, once.

Studies have shown that as Lefties become more educated

My irony meter is now broken, you owe me a new one. Politeness costs you nothing and that was not polite.