Ministry of Defence Cuts (Prince Harry)

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  • Ministry of Defence Cuts (Prince Harry)
  • Will he be made redundant ?

    A. Yes ?

    B. No ?

    (please remember that he really needs his job)

    hels
    Member

    Give the guy a break – I quite like him, and it’s not like he chose to be Spare Prince. At least he’s doing something more useful than pontificating on architecture, talking to plants, sticking his fingers down his throat and crying on panorama. Respect !

    (although getting his willy out and wondering why he got papped was a bit dumb)

    samuri
    Member

    And he’s killed Taliban terrorists so now he’s a real man of the people.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    While they’re binning off half the front line, will they be getting rid of any of the highly efficient mandarins making such a fine job of things like procurement at the MOD?

    I hope not! They’re doing a great job!!

    As for Harry… he’s done a damn site more to defend this country than I have. Fair play to him. He didn’t have too. He wanted too.

    Premier Icon MSP
    Subscriber

    Depends which option the army and royal family think they can get most media miles out of.

    airtragic
    Member

    We’re not as bad at procurement as the press would have you believe. Believe it or not, it’s quite difficult given the lead-in times, constraints and changing requirements procurement staff work under. “Mandarins”, a classic bit of tabloid stereotyping; most of the folk you’re talking about aren’t public school educated Sir Humphrey types in a chesterfield at the Garrick Club, they are hard workers on about 30k a year.

    And I don’t think prince H will get made redundant, because I don’t think any Apache pilots will.

    cranberry
    Member

    As for Harry… he’s done a damn site more to defend this country than I have. Fair play to him. He didn’t have too. He wanted too.

    ^^^ That.

    With the addition that he had to fight his own family to go back a 2nd time whilst knowing that he was a major target for some very unfriendly people.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    We’re not as bad at procurement as the press would have you believe.

    Erm… ok then

    freeagent
    Member

    I work with the MOD – we are one of their major suppliers – they are bad at procurement.

    I work with the MOD – we are one of their major suppliers – they are bad at procurement.

    The MoD would fare better if it didnt have to sustain half of the UK Engineering industry…. 😉

    BAE have a major issue regarding a 2-3 year gap between the QEC build completion and the start of the T26 builds, they have already been touting a few new OPVs for the RN which the RN neither want nor need but political whim and the power of the company could well see them built regardless…. so dont assume that the procurement failings are the fault of the MoD and not also as a result of UK Industry trying to sustain its workforce and weak politicians unable to stand up to them for fear of losing voters….

    airtragic
    Member

    How do we compare to other major nations for cost and time overruns then? The US, Brazil, India? Investing in top line capability is an uncertain game, and it costs a lot of money. But recent history shows that a better trained and equipped force will defeat a much larger one.

    That article is so riddled with inaccuracies that I can’t be bothered to correct them. The media like things simple, but some topics are not simple. You can put a number on soldiers, aircraft, ships or whatever, but it’s harder for them to quantify capabilities, training and skill levels. So they don’t, they bang on about the Falklands or something instead.

    airtragic
    Member

    Also, what BristolPablo said; the fault is not all on the MoD side!

    Premier Icon dave360
    Subscriber

    MOD BAE QEC T26 OPV RN BINGO!

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Aren’t we in the process of building 2 mahoosive aircraft carriers that won’t actually have any planes to fly off them?

    rudebwoy
    Member

    classic– playing war games for real–harry the hero ! i would say he has a slight advantage, on his attack helicopter bristling with hi tec weapons against people with not much more than rifles and home made bombs, if they had effective surface to air missiles , he would not be there !

    ah, yeah, sorry about that… I missed POW and LPDs…..

    Brazil and India dont have much of an new equipment procurement programme to be honest, they buy old capability from various countries. I think up till recently they both had old RN carriers for example. I think Brazil recently bought some of our old Type 22 Frigates too.

    Dont get me wrong, Companies like BAE are developing and delivering cutting edge technology to cope with our modern warfare requirements but the big stuff like Ships, Planes and tanks, I’ll confess we are all pretty poor at but the “blame” can be attributed to many sources.

    No he wont. Been on active service so is exempt.

    airtragic
    Member

    Er, yes they will (have aircraft to fly off them). F35B should arrive a couple of years after the carriers, which have a 40 year (I think) projected service life. You can hardly blame the UK for the delays in that programme, we are very much the junior partner to the USA. And again, it’s cutting edge technology. Lots of stuff that we look on as indispensable now had a troubled development, sometimes you need to keep the faith!

    How would you have balanced all the planning factors?

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    … and keep writing the cheques? 😉

    Premier Icon MrGreedy
    Subscriber

    On the procurement issue – if it was just a case of buying the equipment to meet a given set of requirements at the best price and availability then it’d be a piece of cake and we’d be using lots of cheap American commodity kit like FA18s. What complicates it is the massive lobbying interests and the requirement to prop up a load of UK suppliers (or nominally former UK like BAE) as a political sop because the local MP would be out on his ear at the next election if the contract went elsewhere.

    airtragic
    Member

    Rudebwoy, perhaps we should equip them so it’s fairer? Or maybe we should run around in flip flops with AK47s?
    Crewing an Apache is still rather braver than typing about it. And I think it would do fine against most SAMs actually, due to the British procurement system ensuring we have some of the best defensive aids suites in the world.

    airtragic
    Member

    An F18 is hardly cheap. And another trick the media enjoy is comparing the bare bones price of a foreign price of kit with the home grown alternative, ignoring development, through life costs, training, parts etc etc. See the recent reports of the RAF paying £1bn each for new tankers. I’ve also seen it bandied around that the exchequer recovers a lot of UK programme costs as tax, which Uncle Sam won’t be giving you.

    Pretty sure the first of the UK F35Bs has been delivered and is racking up the hours in UK hands too…

    Premier Icon mtbfix
    Subscriber

    And all govt procurement has to be done via the limited choice of approved suppliers who, by virtue of being on the list, have something close to a licence to print money.

    rudebwoy
    Member

    Instead of killing and maiming people with superior weaponry, how about saving lives– start by abdicating , and all that ill gotten wealth could re distributed to help people !

    airtragic
    Member

    The people he’s shooting at aren’t very nice, you know. Some of them have even killed and maimed people themselves. Come to think of it, that’s probably why he’s shooting at them!

    Civil list is about £15m/year. 60m people means 25p each. Party on!

    Premier Icon franksinatra
    Subscriber

    Instead of killing and maiming people with superior weaponry, how about saving lives– start by abdicating , and all that ill gotten wealth could re distributed to help people !

    He need to be a King to abdicate.

    You might argue that he is killing people to stop them killing more people. I doubt he could use Royal Family wealth to get the taliban to ‘calm down’

    🙄

    konabunny
    Member

    The people he’s shooting at aren’t very nice, you know. Some of them have even killed and maimed people themselves. Come to think of it, that’s probably why he’s shooting at them!

    So glad someone believes all of that laser-guided clean kill propaganda.

    konabunny
    Member

    He need to be a King to abdicate.

    ab·di·cate
    /?abdi?k?t/
    Verb
    – (of a monarch) Renounce one’s throne: “in 1918 Kaiser Wilhelm abdicated as German emperor”.
    – Fail to fulfill or undertake (a responsibility or duty): “the government was accused of abdicating its responsibility”.
    Synonyms
    renounce – resign – relinquish – waive – give up

    yossarian
    Member

    there are other ways to ‘serve your country’ that don’t involve blowing people up. I don’t think Harry is the type to think about things like that very deeply though.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    So glad someone believes all of that laser-guided clean kill propaganda.

    And the humane but effective alternative is……?

    And the humane but effective alternative is……?

    Scented candles and a cuddle.

    airtragic
    Member

    Yossarian: True enough. With that handle, you should know all about it. But let’s not belittle his achievements.

    I never said anything about laser guidance, clean kills etc. I said the people he was shooting at. Collateral damage can happen. But I know the lengths we go to to avoid it, including threat to property as well as human life. Do you?

    CountZero
    Member

    rudebwoy – Member
    classic– playing war games for real–harry the hero ! i would say he has a slight advantage, on his attack helicopter bristling with hi tec weapons against people with not much more than rifles and home made bombs, if they had effective surface to air missiles , he would not be there !

    I think you’ll find they managed quite well against Soviet gunships.
    An RPG would easily bring down a chopper; ever seen what one can do against an armoured vehicle.

    rudebwoy
    Member

    ‘ serve your country’– is that some deeply unpleasant task, like going down on the queen ?

    rudebwoy
    Member

    ‘ serve your country’– is that some deeply unpleasant task, like going down on the queen ?

    rudebwoy
    Member

    double trouble– once would be enough for a medal

    ormondroyd
    Member

    And another trick the media enjoy is comparing the bare bones price of a foreign price of kit with the home grown alternative, ignoring development, through life costs, training, parts etc etc.

    This, absolutely.

    We do it all over the place, not just the military. Witness trains being bought from Germany for a fraction less than the price of British built alternatives, because the rules mean there is way too much focus on that single balance sheet, not on the wider economic picture. £1bn spent in German factories is seen as better than £1.1bn spent in UK factories, despite the fact that the latter is far better for the overall UK economy.

    there are other ways to ‘serve your country’ that don’t involve blowing people up. I don’t think Harry is the type to think about things like that very deeply though.

    Well, his brother is busy ‘serving the country’ doing a similar job while rescuing people who decided that crib goch looked like a fun route to traverse in high heels – but both have to go and do what their Nan tells them to don’t they.

    johnners
    Member

    But let’s not belittle his achievements.

    He’s a dilettante. He left school with middling-to-poor A levels in Art and Geography, and went straight into Sandhurst.

    It beggars belief that he’s in that cockpit through merit or talent. His pilot must have drawn a very short straw.

    yossarian
    Member

    but both have to go and do what their Nan tells them to don’t they.

    i don’t think so, they choose to. I don’t doubt that they have been schooled, educated and groomed to take on these roles but let’s not pretend it isn’t a choice. Its a great shame that they haven’t chosen a different path, particularly Harry. A serving royal in an illegal war? tsk tsk.

    rudebwoy
    Member

    these people have the very best education, health care, and advantage that is possible, yet look how they turn out !

    Inbreeding has been made illegal for most people….

    airtragic
    Member

    If he hadn’t made the grade, he wouldn’t be in the cockpit. I’ve got friends in the helicopter flying training system and I seriously believe this. Academic results have little bearing on flying ability.

    airtragic
    Member

    Look how they turn out? Most parents would be quite proud to have their kids make the grade as helicopter pilots.

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