machete attack in woolwich london (bbc news atm)

Well, you’re right, it happened in a very public place but is it any worse than two white racists stabbing Stephen Lawrence with a broken bottle?

You could just as easily replace ‘Muslim’ with say.. ‘white’, ‘american’, ‘aristocrat’, ‘communist’ or any nationality, and find plenty of similar events through history.

You are right however few of those you named would find specific support for their actions written in a book that dictates how they live their life.

According to the news one of them is a UK born Christian of Nigerian descent who had converted to Islam.

You are right however few of those you named would find specific support for their actions written in a book that dictates how they live their life.

I’m not sure it matters if it comes from a religious text, a political manifesto, or ideas of race and origin. My point is that there are plenty of other secular motivations for terror and generally nasty behaviour.

My point is that there are plenty of other secular motivations for terror and generally nasty behaviour.

Its very important. Can you name me a secular text that has 1.8bm adherents that includes an extensive list of sections that would be classified as hate speech.
I’m not saying for one moment that there are not a lot of nasty people around and many dont need and motivation, secular or not to commit terrible crimes.

It’s a bit rich to attack the media when we have 6 pages on a cycle forum devoted to the same subject. The only thing we have in common is that we are all ignorant of the facts in the case especially the background and motivation. But the media have minutes and inches to sell and stories to make interesting and people naturally want to talk about it. Bizarrely, googling the EDL and Woolwich last night led me to the Ipswich Town supporters club website!!

But nothing is really gained from is it terrorist or is it religion debates IMO apart from (potentially interesting) speculation. So it is reported that witnesses heard “Allah Akbar” – perhaps they misheard, perhaps the criminals were religiously motivated, perhaps they and the witnesses had simply watched too many episodes of Homeland? We simply don’t know anything other than one person has been killed and his family and friends must be suffering greatly. Shouldn’t it just be left there?

@ Grum – there may be an element of truth in that…the saudi royal family is a strong influence over religious affairs and as Mecca is located there and is the focal point of every muslim’s prayers…what they influence has a knock on effect to the rest of the muslim world….its a known fact that they have been funding the production of the translated Quran…but like you said what most people dont realise is that this version of the Quran promotes their ideology of Wahhabiism…a sect of islam which openly promotes a hard line approach to the religion that borders on extremism….
as for the saudi royal family….they’re just a bunch of hypocritical tosspots who have been seduced by money and power….and many other things they shouldnt be getting involved in…

@ wrecker – its true…if it isnt religion it would be something else they would hide behind…but in this case it is religion and more specifically islam….we are already struggling to distance ourselves from the perception that we are all extremists who like to wage jihads on anyone and everyone…the actions of the minority always have sever repercussions to the greater many…this is my chance to lay the boot in at those culprits who tarnish my faith so wrongly…

@ globalti – if this is the case regarding the name of one of the men, then it makes for interesting reading as it would definitely point to the fact that he has been converted and radicalised by someone who needs to be caught…however the name michael is also accepted as a muslim name as it was the name of one the the archangels and is spelt Mikail…but usually it is frowned upon to take the name of one of the angels in islam…but you’re correct that whoever recruited them did so for that purpose that they were two nutcases of low intelligence who could easily be manipulated…

Can you name me a secular text that has 1.8bm adherents that includes an extensive list of sections that would be classified as hate speech.

bible’s gotta be a contender surely..?

Wow Camerons speech on the news wasn’t sitting on the fence, it was quite stern IMO. Well done.

bible’s gotta be a contender surely..?

I was going to say that there’s a lot of stuffs in the “good” book which must qualify….

bible’s gotta be a contender surely..?

I dont think the bible could be termed “secular”

In the end let’s not forget that, as somebody else posted recently on STW, this is all about whose imagined best friend is better than who else’s imagined best friend.

Thought this might be of interest to some…

Too many titles handed the killers the megaphone they craved. Those who quietly reject the offer of hatred and division deserve to be heard too.

New Statesman article

this is all about whose imagined best friend is better than who else’s imagined best friend.

No, it’s not.

Can you name me a secular text that has 1.8bm adherents that includes an extensive list of sections that would be classified as hate speech.

It is a text that can be used by some as justification for violence. There are many of those. And there is lots of justification for violence that’s not written in big books.

I still think the fact that it’s a religious text is a red herring.

It is a text that can be used by some as justification for violence. There are many of those. And there is lots of justification for violence that’s not written in big books.

But thats just a rearrangement of some words. Can you answer the question?

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Is that real? I’ll happily submit to Aslan.

the EDL advocating the wearing of the burka…

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bunch of ——- (insert at your pleasure!!)

Is that real? I’ll happily submit to Aslan.

looks like it been photoshopped, but its funny to think of them as a bunch of idiots….

EDIT: they are idiots!! 😯

have those fellas got their mums to sew EDL badges on or do the EDL actually produce and sell their own range of balaclavas?

But thats just a rearrangement of some words. Can you answer the question?

The answer to your question is ‘no’ but that doesn’t help us much, because I don’t think your question is a good one. Which is what I was trying to say.

It’s an odd look. They must have a knitwear designer in their leadership I guess.

That Russell Howard did a brief sketch on ’em a while back…..

Unsurprisingly, most seem like that.

The really sad thing is, they seem to be getting some local support following this terrible incident by preying on the fears of gullible psychos.

preying on the fears of gullible psychos.

It happens on both sides then……

preying on the fears of gullible psychos.

Don’t bring the classifieds flaming threads into this.

they’re so hard and fearless they have to hide their faces or maybe it was pretty cold last night…awwwwww duddums!!! 😥

they go on about no retreat to the IRA as being one of their anthems…and they’re dressed like them in their balaclavas….they ridicule the burka and with their hoods up it looks like they’re wearing burkas…

because I don’t think your question is a good one. Which is what I was trying to say.

It doesnt matter now as we seem to have moved on to ridiculing half wits. 🙁

Don’t bring the classifieds flaming threads into this.

😆

I’ve just watched the footage from this. Terrible thing to happen. One thing that struck me as odd but the attackers only had blood on their hands, none on their clothes. I find this odd.

5thElefant – Member
It’s an odd look. They must have a knitwear designer in their leadership I guess.

Rubbish designers, they’ve only got a small round mouth hole, you’d only be able to insert something long and cylindrical….oh, I see!! 😯 😳

One thing that struck me as odd but the attackers only had blood on their hands, none on their clothes.

They were wearing dark clothes, blood wouldn’t show up so easily and would be soaked into the fabric. Just a theory like…..

Like most terrorist incidents, the conspiracy theories are beginning 😕

If it wasn’t in the name of religion, they’d just find something else to misbehave under the banner of.

Maybe they will, maybe they wont however a reading of the Koran hardly leaves them short of justification.

Just enjoying the irony as the thread has moved on the the EDL who clearly have found another banner to misbehave under

I’ve just watched the footage from this.

Why?

They were wearing dark clothes

I thought one of them was wearing a beige jacket.

Why? Why would I not want to watch the footage that’s been all over the news.

Confirmed as fusilier bandsman drummer Lee Rigby

🙁

😥

Heartrendingly sad.

The victim was married with a two year old.

Help For Heroes site crashed due to high demand for tee shirts and increased donations. Well done British public! (In a perverse kind of way.)

In support I wore my ‘Army’ tee shirt round Belper today. Trouble is there’s no one here to offend.