As per the thread title lots of people are leaving my employer which is an IT service provider with just under 100 staff.

The management and benefits have never been great but it is a nice place to work with some great people. Recently the quality of management has dipped (from a fairly low base) as much focus has been on integrating with another company that became part of the group a while ago.

My role is still ok but some colleagues have cited lack of management support failure to manage customers properly (i.e. allowing projects to wander from the agreed scope and for things to be re-scheduled without consultation) as reasons for leaving.

The total number of leavers is around 15 out of around 40 staff in the project delivery area. The discontent almost seems contagious.

I am going to sit tight for the present but am curious to know if others in UK firms are seeing similar happenings? – there are lots of articles about “The Great Resignation” trend of 2021 but I have not heard of this type of thing happening in other UK companies in similar markets.

I work in a company in the travel industry and we are seeing very high rates of leavers and not being replaced at the same rate. Company is definitely aware of this “brain drain” as we are losing good people but yet to see what they will do.

Yes, sounds pretty similar. Bigger org here (and in the process of roughly doubling in size again after another acquisition) but I seem to get news of someone leaving every few days at the moment.

Had a big loss of developers over the last year or so, wasn’t an exodus to a particular place but people wanting to move up into more senior roles we didn’t have, and most job vacancies opening up to full remote or occasional onsite. Seems to be one of the areas that always used to require someone to commute in every day (because devs can’t possibly collaborate otherwise) but now people can pick up lucrative London jobs while only travelling there a couple of times a month.

Rest just seems to be general taking stock, bored of endless WFH for the same company so wanting to do something different. The massive expansion has taken us from being a very focussed specialist to more broad based and I know some of those leaving are seeking out smaller companies to move to.

I think these things just tend to happen after a big change.

I worked for the second biggest engineering consultancy on the planet who took over the biggest. Management were shit and openly said from the start that the existing employees were going to be on worse pay and conditions. Then they wondered why the losses were so bad that they had to ban leaving emails.

When I handed my notice in I knew I had made the right choice when my “exit interview” was a two hour long 200 multiple choice questionaire. I stopped at 25.

Lots of small IT service companies are growing as orgs tighten up their positions on IR35.
I have 3 middle men between me and the end client instead of 1 or 2 previously.
It’s like the Wild West out there and it’s going to take time to calm down.

When I handed my notice in I knew I had made the right choice when my “exit interview” was a two hour long 200 multiple choice questionaire. I stopped at 25.

Are they mental? S’pose it creates a pretty chart on a spreadsheet somewhere. Reality is for orgs where there is mass departure it’s the people consuming these spreadsheets that were the cause of the problem in the first place.

I knew I had made the right choice when my “exit interview” was a two hour long 200 multiple choice questionaire. I stopped at 25.

😳🤪

There’s a high demand for good IT people in the UK. IME its exacerbated by Brexit – we used to see a lot of EU students graduating and staying and from our job applications that’s dwindled, so combined with the poor IT/Computing training in schools for decades not feeding the stock there is a shortage.

A shortage means that salaries for IT people go up.
If salaries in the industry go up, and your company is not keeping pace it will lose people.
There is value to being a nice place to work with good colleagues but all too often companies have no understanding how much that saves their wage bill so implement stupid policies that destroy it and cost them hard cash in the long run.
We noticed much less natural movement during lockdown/furlough type situations across all disciplines because people who had a job were happy to keep it even if they didn’t really like it (and maybe WFH provided a bit of a change).
When people leave it is effectively contagious:
– “did you hear Jimmy got an extra £10k at ACME Inc? He’s not even that good”
– “Hey Jon, I’ve moved to ACME Inc, the pay and conditions are much better (oh and they have a scheme where I get £500 for introducing a friend!) want to come work here?”
– “Jimmy why are you leaving? Oh I’ve just got frustrated with management attitude [Brits are usually too polite to say its about money – better to blame the culture!]”
– Everyone’s leaving because of the culture – this must be a bad place to work
– Attracting new hires might mean paying more than existing – a sure-fire way to piss off the people who did that job for the last 3 years on a pittance and now have to train the newbie [even if you uplift the existing ones to match – they know you only did it because you “had to”].
– When people start leaving the workload for everyone else goes up till their replacements are effective.
– It takes time before senior managers start to spot a pattern that someone in the middle might be a problem, especially in high demand sectors where people can just go elsewhere and the middle management can make 101 excuses why people are leaving

Now the trick / challenge when going somewhere else is to work out if its full of exactly the same issue with different faces!

You got to 25????

Now the trick / challenge when going somewhere else is to work out if its full of exactly the same issue with different faces!

Exactly this 👆

I’ve started 2 new jobs in the last year, but only one of those was truly optional (voluntary redundancy, but would have been a pool of 2 if I didn’t volunteer and the other candidate was more likely to stay). There are plenty of jobs out there and a lot of people not running things well, hence it’s easy to move.

there are lots of articles about “The Great Resignation” trend of 2021 but I have not heard of this type of thing happening in other UK companies in similar markets.

Likewise, I’ve read a lot about it but do wonder how real it really is…..

I work in o+g my department of 5 had 3 leave 3 weeks including the lead engineer.

Money on offer at other company’s is strong. Can’t say I’m not tempted

My missus is one of many who has just handed in her notice. Most seem to be going after management renaged on their new found tolerance for working from home (productivity and most metrics were up). She now has a 5 minute commute each way for the same pay and hours rather than 3 hours travel (including waiting on trains) a day. Bonus.

Feels like the floodgates are about to open at our place. Everyone is looking for an out.

My team (professional services) of around 20 technical guys had 6 leavers including me from March to July. I was the only one who sold out for a significant (1.5x) payrise. Our pre sales team has halved in the last three months. There’s a good number of other leavers across the company but the technical teams have had the highest percentage. I think it’s largely due to the way the senior management are trying to run things and cut costs.

We’ve really struggled to recruit replacements. I can’t help but think that’s because there are better financial offers elsewhere.

I work for a company that is into “big data” and we are seeing the same thing.
Our problem is that we recruit graduates on a fairly low wage, at first they are happy because it is a great place to work with a big percentage of the workforce in their early/mid 20’s however after about two years they realise they want cars/houses and move on. Not helped because historically internal progression has been limited.
On the upside at least they have recognised the above and are trying doing something about it but that is only driven by it being so difficult currently to recruit.

Op not the AccessGroup by chance, I’ve had horrendous experience with them over the last couple of years.

I started my current job at the end of July. In September, I was asked to support a new starter because I was the longest-serving employee at that level.

Yes, the team I’m on has gone from 8 to over 20 in that time, but we’ve got leaving collections about once a week for the next 6 weeks or so, not counting the ones who didn’t stay long enough for me to meet them face to face…

Lots of HGV drivers are jumping to better jobs. Not just for the pay but for better conditions, especially away from anything to do with food or construction. One place that I worked at for just over 2 weeks had pretty much every driver – roughly 30 – openly looking at and sharing jobs posts while in the office waiting to be assigned a run every morning. The management didn’t try and stop it at all as they knew that they could do nothing about it.

I know of a massive issue with people leaving anything to do with healthcare too, from paramedics and nurses to care home staff. The goodwill in the public form the lockdowns has gone and the staff are being drawn to working for the same money for less stress at Tesco etc.

Any company with poor people skills, low pay and/or high workloads is suffering right now really.

Our place has 40% attrition this year so far. Its like a revolving door. IT sector. fairly grim corporate culture was partly to blame as well as the great attrition. Plus all our vacancies seem to be well below market rate and FTC, so no wonder they can’t get people in.

Conversely, the wages and benefits where I work are pretty generous especially for the dead wood who are just marking time until they can collect their gold plated final salary pensions.

I wish a lot of them would **** off, but the sponging bastards are hanging around hoping for more money in the form of redundancy in a couple of years time. ****.

No not the AccessGroup. A far smaller outfit with just two locations.

When I handed my notice in I knew I had made the right choice when my “exit interview” was a two hour long 200 multiple choice questionaire. I stopped at 25.

**** this shit!

Written across page would have portrayed the message.

It’s not just IT. People in my field can walk into another job in the field instantly. This in an area where a PhD might see you under qualified. One sees seniority/experience leaving and replacement by inexperience. Many are in the US on one week’s notice. LinkedIn job porn is a constant reminder about whether to change. And it makes it silly easy for recruiters to do the chasing. A competitor promoted the entire department to unify job grades with other companies. We have six vacancies and they have about the same!

There’s a tipping point in reorganisations where one needs to ask whether to stay with what’s left or join the exodus.

Handed my notice in last week much to managements surprise, quite a few others are as well. Think prolonged wfh has given more time for reflection.

I know our IT department is like a revolving door at the moment but that is driven by other local companies paying more and ours not waking up to the need to pay more if they want to retain people in a boyant market.

There’s a high demand for good IT people in the UK

Seems like this is the case based on the salaries being bandied about by rec consultants in my inbox at the moment. Definite increase, even allowing for the BS

Our problem is that we recruit graduates on a fairly low wage, at first they are happy because it is a great place to work with a big percentage of the workforce in their early/mid 20’s however after about two years they realise they want cars/houses and move on. Not helped because historically internal progression has been limited.

Unfortunately common where you end up with a company of only or 90+% junior developers because magamant can’t see the value in paying mid or senior level pay.

I started my current job at the end of July. In September, I was asked to support a new starter because I was the longest-serving employee at that level.

Pretty common in the civil service. Big WhatsApp chat tonight about how my current team are all looking to move to escape the boss.

Unfortunately common where you end up with a company of only or 90+% junior developers because magamant can’t see the value in paying mid or senior level pay.

son a senior software engineer (aged25) 🤔  asked his work for a rise this week. Got a £5k rise and a London allowance as he works with the London team, although he works from home, well my home in Aberdeen.

He says dont ask dont get if I don’t get…..I’ll just move to somewhere that does pay my worth. I admire his confidence in his worth

You got to 25????

I never said I answered honestly. It was more entertaining than sitting there doing nothing.

Written across page would have portrayed the message.

Done many multiple choice questionaires have you

😀

To be fair it was a great time to be there. The best email I saw was one saying that of anyone wanted 15 years of long service awards (a sort of glass block thing) they could help themselves to them in the kitchen. People started asking on the worldwide company Facebook equivalent how being in the top 10 worst employers was being addressed, Americans all saying how proud they were and the British employees all spouting how hilarious it was how gullible the Americans were being.

Last week of my 3 month notice. Will need to travel a bit initially then WFH.
Mine is Brexit related as the German company is centralising back to Germany.
They did ask if I wanted to move over there but I found a job here.

LinkedIn job porn is a constant reminder about whether to change.

Not sure about pharma but in cybersecurity that Linkedin porn seems to be a metal water bottle, some stickers and a t-shirt. Kinky for some but holy-shit not something I’d be bragging about in the shite-house that is Facebook for work.

so who here is working in the companies recruiting all these people…? Where are they going?

A lot of the IT finance systems people I know have just decided to retire.

Facebook for work

In pharma it’s the default job website. Just stick a daily search for “Clinical Pharmacology” in and you’ll get daily pings in both U.K. and US for jobs. The US is just ridiculous. Not enough people to fill the posts. And that is everywhere.

People join companies and leave managers. Good managers seek to promote and advance their charges through better opportunities. Even if not in their team. Not keep them in a “usefulness” cage. If that’s you. Can’t leave or move due to “continuity”, leave.

so who here is working in the companies recruiting all these people…? Where are they going?

I work in the legal sector and we’re taking on staff like nobody’s business.

In pharma it’s the default job website.

Lots of angles to LinkedIn, recruitment being one. But algorithms are gamed for self promotion and right now it’s all about ‘not work’ at least in my circles. Extended to new hires there’s a glut of people gushing about their new employers in the most trivial of terms. Come back and tell me in six months….

Fun fact from today, lots of fledglings and startups will masquerade as bigger than they are but ‘number of people on LinkedIn’ is a pretty good indicator (by i’d hazard +/- 5%) as to how big they really are.

People join companies and leave managers. Good managers seek to promote and advance their charges through better opportunities.

Amen to that.

… technical teams have had the highest percentage. I think it’s largely due to the way the senior management are trying to run things and cut costs.

Defense [sic] / Aerospace manufacturing – left a technical role in the summer due to the above. Taken over by a ‘Mericun company a couple of years ago, and the short-term, petty, chiselling, penny-pinching, cost-of-everything-value-of nothing management style, combined with endless aren’t-we-great propaganda just got too much. I would have happily stayed there forever a few years ago.

They’ve gone from a company with some of the lowest staff turnover to one of the highest.

In a moment of weakness, I agreed to help with the recruitment of my replacement. Thus far, they have been unable to recruit anyone. My [half arsed] Linked-in profile has been going nuts! 😀

I always think it’s a bit unstable rushing off to the highest paying employer. Workplace culture being more emprtant to health and work/life balance. But it’s hard to ascertain the real reasons people leave. To save face, the most accepted answers are usually given.

We have a different key issue here in China. The odd local English language ‘citizen journalist’ news article for expats is popping up with titles like “Job or Family?”

Workers who can leave and go home, but can’t return (or it’s very difficult and requires being locked in a hotel room for 3 weeks prior to being released back into the community) Many of us haven’t seen our families for 3.5years and we know the only way we are going to see them is to resign, buy an expensive plane ticket 9000km home, and sleep on our rents’ sofa until we get our stuff together and find a job.

Employers know they need to keep us, but don’t know how. Maybe 85% of workers in my field weren’t fully legal (not always the worker’s fault) and there’s an almighty clampdown on the “wild, wild west” of before.

My parents back home, retired, are already talking to me about “eating less this winter”. Not sure if tts prices, or availability. I can help them out with the first.