losing weight-does it make you ill?

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  • losing weight-does it make you ill?
  • avdave2
    Member

    Why would your body store toxins? – Detox has no real evidence to support it. 4/5 stone is a lot to lose, I’d be looking for professional advice regarding how you are feeling now.

    toys19
    Member

    Yeah I don’t believe in “detox” but there is a phenomena known as Bioaccumulation, and I have read that eating processed food can increase the toxins found in body fat.

    This article is interesting.

    Mantastic
    Member

    Man up, you will get over it

    Premier Icon Drac
    Subscriber

    Being overweight will make you ill. Losing weight in a sensible way to a sensible level won’t.

    toys19
    Member

    I’m about 4/5 stone overweight.
    Every time I do some exercise, it makes me ill the next day, not too bad, but fluish aches and pains and cold like sneezing/runny nose.

    I have heard that your fat contains loads of toxins, and that when you lose weight your body processes those toxins and that makes you feel crap.

    Is there any truth in this?

    teef
    Member

    losing weight-does it make you ill?

    Don’t you mean:

    Exercise-does it make you ill?

    toys19
    Member

    well yeah, I am making the assumption that my last bit of exercise made me ill and I lost a bit of weight, both could be wrong…
    But – Every time I have a good workout I feel pain the next day, I do not mean DOMS. I used to be a bit of a gym bunny and have been very fit in the distant past so i kind of know my way round DOMS and post exercise feelings, bu this is different. I am trying to get fit/lose weight now and I keep failing because of this wierd effect of feeling rotten the next day.
    Last night I did 10k off road, (slowly) when we finished I could have done another 10k but it was getting dark. So I don’t think it was excessive.

    I accept the eponymous mantastics advice, and I have been manning up – 6 rides and 4 gym session in the last 3 weeks despite feeling bad.
    This week its going to be at least 3 rides maybe 4.

    cynic-al
    Member

    I get the sniffles a lot after a cold – takes a while to clear completely.

    Sounds like it’s an issue specific to you or overweight folk.

    HughStew
    Member

    Your body is getting stressed by exercise, more so because you’re overweight. This not necessarily a bad thing as you should recover stronger, if it’s really bad, wind back the level of exercise a bit. Sneezing/ runny nose – I have no idea, maybe take some anti-histamines, as being outside will expose you to more pollen / pollution.

    It’s staggering how few calories exercise burns, when I was fat it was the change in diet that really helped me drop it. Good luck.

    The use of the word “toxins” in this sort of context is something of a red flag for me. It generally has the same level of scientific backup as talking about chakras, or Mercury rising in your adjacent house affecting your love life.

    I was in your position; I’ve lost about 4 stone with another stone to go, to get down to ‘racing weight’. No problems with feeling ill through exercise, or diet change. Taken me years rather than months, mind.

    Premier Icon seosamh77
    Subscriber

    nope, i’m about the same, 4 stone overweight(I was 5).

    exercising makes me feel brilliant the next day. (well unless you get muscle aches, but they go away after a week or 2, you are just using muscles you haven’t used in a long while, so they will ache.)

    Make sure you are eating and hydrating enough, that’d be my instinct. Leaving your dieting days for when you aren’t exercising. (and make sure you eat after exercising.)

    toys19
    Member

    The use of the word “toxins” in this sort of context is something of a red flag for me. It generally has the same level of scientific backup as talking about chakras, or Mercury rising in your adjacent house affecting your love life.

    Yes indeed, I think one has to be cautious, the detox industry is bunk. But there is significant medical evicence that toxins are stored in adipose tissue, its just a case of do they really come out during exercise/weight loss and if they do, would I notice it/is that whats making me feel shit..

    Premier Icon weeksy
    Subscriber

    Yes indeed, I think one has to be cautious, the detox industry is bunk. But there is significant medical evicence that toxins are stored in adipose tissue, its just a case of do they really come out during exercise/weight loss and if they do, would I notice it/is that whats making me feel shit..

    Why would you be so far in the minority ?

    soobalias
    Member

    I am trying to get fit/lose weight now

    one thing at a time. maintain fitness and lose weight (diet), or increase fitness and disregard weight (no harm in keeping an eye on what you eat, but dont consciously cut calories, certainly not below a reasonable maintenance level)

    Premier Icon nedrapier
    Subscriber

    The metabolic process produces free radicals at many different stages, and the body needs antioxidants, differnent ones for different free radicals, to neutralise them and avoid destructive effects on cells and tissue.

    If you’re missing the right antioxidants from your diet to deal with certain free radicals, the body and get them out of circulation by stuffing them away in calcium deposits in joints and adhesions in connective tissues (and possibly, don’t actually know about this one, in fats too.)

    The use of the word “toxins” in this sort of context is something of a red flag for me. It generally has the same level of scientific backup as talking about chakras, or Mercury rising in your adjacent house affecting your love life.

    Do some reading then! Biochemistry (that’s a type of science) awaits!

    Edit: I agree in part though. “Detoxing” – just drinking lemon juice for 4 days is not going to do very much to help you along. Eating plenty of fresh fruit and veg, avoiding processed food, fags, booze and chemicals, and getting out of the city for a while, will.

    toys19
    Member

    Why would you be so far in the minority ?

    QUE?

    one thing at a time. maintain fitness and lose weight (diet), or increase fitness and disregard weight (no harm in keeping an eye on what you eat, but dont consciously cut calories, certainly not below a reasonable maintenance level)

    I am exercising and cutting down on carbs, but not calorie counting/restricting my diet in terms of going hungry..

    Premier Icon weeksy
    Subscriber

    Well, if so many people exercise and don’t have these issues, why are you ?

    toys19
    Member

    Because I am a bad person? I dunno WTF are you driving at?

    Premier Icon seosamh77
    Subscriber

    toys19 – Member
    Because I am a bad person? I dunno WTF are you driving at?

    MTFU? 😆

    Premier Icon weeksy
    Subscriber

    toys19 – Member

    Because I am a bad person? I dunno WTF are you driving at?

    I can’t make it any clearer fella. There’s millions upon millions of people in the same situation, however, unless we’ve all missed something, none are experiencing the same issues as you.

    So, maybe it’s something else ?

    You should go and see the Doctor.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    Cutting down on carbs whilst exercising hard CAN be very difficult for people who are used to living and exercising off carb stores. I suspect that this includes those people with a higher proportion of type II muscle tissue.

    However, it’s unclear to me if we are better off putting up with the crap feeling and reduced performance to try and learn to deal with it; or to introduce more (good) carbs to the diet so we can work harder and lose more weight that way.

    Premier Icon Clover
    Subscriber

    I always seem to get a cold if I lose weight. It really annoys me!

    I am 6kg off my racing weight and is really hard to shift without getting ill, even though I eat loads of vegetables and not much processed food. Everyone is different, you need to find what works – fluids would be a start.

    Also, as those are the kind of reaction you get from immune system dealing with something, check what you eat and drink in and around exercising, if it’s something different from every day you just might be be intolerant of it. Different washing powder for sports kit??

    pondo
    Member

    I’ve experienced something similar to that – I think it’s just more of a stress on the body thing than any gubbins about toxins. After a big break towards the end of last year, this year I’ve made a point of starting off at a much more gentle pace and I’ve not had an issue – having said that, got a cold off the missis last week, had a big ride at the weekend (long planned) and man did I ever feel rough after. I still sound like Barry White but I don’t feel too bad now. Just go steady, eat healthy and crack on. 🙂

    trail_rat
    Member

    “this year I’ve made a point of starting off at a much more gentle pace and I’ve not had an issue”

    im almost positive if you follow this advice you will not get ill the next day.

    trying to go out from nothing to a 4 hour mtb ride in the hills will almost certainly make your body go – woah **** this and wave the white flag to any little illness thats been attacking your body.

    Premier Icon zilog6128
    Subscriber

    However, it’s unclear to me if we are better off putting up with the crap feeling and reduced performance to try and learn to deal with it; or to introduce more (good) carbs to the diet so we can work harder and lose more weight that way.

    IMO the link between exercise and weight loss is massively overestimated for most people.

    Diet to change weight, exercise to change fitness. Actually I would say diet is important for fitness also as you will have more energy and feel like being more active with a more healthy diet.

    IMO/IME endurance exercise is a poor method for losing body fat simply because the more you exercise the more you need to eat if you are going to sustain the exercise day after day, week after week. If you feel crap and are performing crap (assuming you are not ill) then to me that is a pretty clear signal from your body that you are not eating properly!

    For exercise resulting in fat loss I would say weight training would be far more successful (but still with diet being the more important factor).

    toys19
    Member

    trail rat I agree, hence my comment that last night was a reasonably gentle pootle, I worked on the climbs but had plenty in the tank at the end and could have done more (I can’t see m doing 4 hrs any time soon).
    Yes perhaps there is something else wrong..

    trail_rat
    Member

    “endurance exercise is a poor method for losing body fat simply because the more you exercise the more you need to eat if you are going to sustain the exercise day after day, week after week”

    i fail to see the issue here …. so long as your net calorie intake is less than your outgoing then its grand.

    weight lifting is good for weight loss due to the fact it exercises large groups of muscles all at once increasing your bodys requirements for energy just to sit at the desk and feed the muscle + recovery.

    how ever if you have a sustained deficit for either of much more than 500 cals you will likely get ill.

    Weight lost quickly is weight gained quickly. there is no way to lose weight “quickly”

    toys19
    Member

    just be clear, I am not doing anything quickly.. Just trying to make a lifestyle change.

    Premier Icon zilog6128
    Subscriber

    i fail to see the issue here …. so long as your net calorie intake is less than your outgoing then its grand.

    Yes… I meant endurance exercise on it’s own purely to try to lose weight (without correct diet). Obviously it is possible to have a calorie deficit in that scenario but I don’t think it’s very likely.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    Diet to change weight, exercise to change fitness

    Hmm, maybe, but I think the two things need to work in tandem. Diet to match the exercise you do.

    i fail to see the issue here …. so long as your net calorie intake is less than your outgoing then its grand.

    We’ve done this before – some of the calories you put in your mouth end up maintaining your fat stores, but how much fat is the result of a complex set of systems and is only loosely related to how much exercise you do.

    To the OP – is there any common factor in the exercise you are doing? Do you choose say woodland routes for your biking and running? Could be something like tree pollen maybe.. that kind of thing.

    HughStew
    Member

    The use of the word “toxins” in this sort of context is something of a red flag for me. It generally has the same level of scientific backup as talking about chakras, or Mercury rising in your adjacent house affecting your love life.

    Do some reading then! Biochemistry (that’s a type of science) awaits!
    [/quote]
    Read carefully then. Of course there is plenty of proper science in this area, but the word “toxins” is frequently thrown about in a pseudo-scientific Gillian McKeith style. BTW I have a higher degree in biochemistry – patronising twuntery backatcha.

    Edit to add a 😉

    toys19
    Member

    To the OP – is there any common factor in the exercise you are doing? Do you choose say woodland routes for your biking and running? Could be something like tree pollen maybe.. that kind of thing.

    Yeah maybe, TBh I only noticed it after cycling in Aberdeen, kirkhill and countesswells. hmmm Might take a piriton and see what happens.

    Premier Icon nedrapier
    Subscriber

    patronising twuntery backatcha.

    😀

    Premier Icon brassneck
    Subscriber

    Read carefully then. Of course there is plenty of proper science in this area, but the word “toxins” is frequently thrown about in a pseudo-scientific Gillian McKeith style. BTW I have a higher degree in biochemistry – patronising twuntery backatcha.
    Edit to add a

    I thought the ‘antioxidant’ thing had been discredited as a marketing term more than anything too. But I know f*** all about bio chemistry 😀

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    Afaik we do need antioxidants, but it’s unclear if eating loads of them actually makes any difference to the availability of these things in our blood. So yes, unfounded pseudoscientific supposition based on real science, like many things.

    Likewise toxins – again afaik the body can deposit actual toxins like metals etc in fatty tissue (like fish do, which is why eating lots of oily fish can be bad) – I did read somewhere that crash yoyo dieters were at risk because they went through their fat stores quickly so had high levels of these toxins to dispose of – then build them back up again and repeat regularly.

    Solo
    Member

    I’m about 4/5 stone overweight.
    I’d suggest losing most of that via a change in your diet/lifestyle (restrict carb intake) and while doing so exercise at a moderate intensity, if you feel the need to move about a bit.

    IIRC, Ton lost over 5 stone mostly via diet, but is now slowly ramping up his exercise. Last time I saw, I think he was aiming for 500 miles a month 😯

    Change of Diet to change reduce your weight, exercise to change maintain or increase your fitness
    Definately.

    i fail to see the issue here …. so long as your net calorie intake is less than your outgoing then its grand.
    This has been proved not to be the case. The body’s endocrine system will adjust to try to compensate for cals lost. It will either try to regain cals via increased hunger or by feeling lethargic. The Endocrine system is a crafty old sod. Furthremore, upsetting it with lots of carbs will just send things in the wrong direction.

    I’m coming to the end of ‘The Diet Delusion’. Its been a very enlightening read. Its staggering to see how obtuse some members of the medical community have been in the past and in more recent times.

    Premier Icon Del
    Subscriber

    come out with us of a wednesday night, drink 3 pints of Sports Beer (TM) after, and have a reason to feel vaguely crappy the following day. sorted.
    next!
    😉

    Solo
    Member

    come out with us of a wednesday night, drink 3 pints of Sports Beer

    Thanks, but I’ve injured my back and so I’m off the bike for a few days.

    trail_rat
    Member

    is that code for sucumbing to temptation ?

    Solo
    Member

    is that code for sucumbing to temptation ?

    ?

    I went out on Sunday morning to enact my hommage to the tour of flanders, by riding against the wind along wet, muddy back roads. But I’m an old get now and I suspect I’ve torn a muscle in my lower back.

    But don’t worry, I used my ‘winter bike’, a 2013 cinelli experience fitted with my old mavic wheelset and a mixture of 105, ultegra 6800 and dura ace 9000.

    trail_rat
    Member

    naw your previous post.

    Solo
    Member

    naw your previous post

    Oh, well its probably another thread along the lines of conspiracy theories, etc. But for dyed in the wool academics to make statements and give direction off the back of other people’s work, cos they’re too busy. Is risky stuff at best and down right misleading at worst and its also amazing to read that these people, who would have us think they’re really clever. Refuse to consider alternative hypotheses that do not conform to the paradigm that calories are all equal. Which has been proved not to be the case.

    (was that better ?)

    gonefishin
    Member

    i fail to see the issue here …. so long as your net calorie intake is less than your outgoing then its grand.
    This has been proved not to be the case. The body’s endocrine system will adjust to try to compensate for cals lost. It will either try to regain cals via increased hunger or by feeling lethargic. The Endocrine system is a crafty old sod. Furthremore, upsetting it with lots of carbs will just send things in the wrong direction.

    You know criticism like this always raises alarm bells in my head, mostly because it appear to contradict the laws of thermodynmaics. As crafy as the endocrine system might be (I have no idea as it is way outside my area of expertise) it can’t break the laws of thermodynamics.

    trail_rat
    Member

    “Refuse to consider alternative hypotheses that do not conform to the paradigm that calories are all equal”

    a bottle of coke is not worth a steak and some broccoli … thats stuff that my parents taught me when i was a kid.

    probably my fault to assume that folks know the difference between clean calories and junk calories.

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