Viewing 26 posts - 1 through 26 (of 26 total)
  • Losing my job, victim of corporate employment/tax policy
  • Premier Icon fettling
    Free Member

    Bear with me this is a long one.

    The company I have worked for for the last 9 years was bough by a US co a year ago. They kept our R&D team on working in the UK on new technologies they want. They are now closing the site in the UK and extracting the knowledge literally 1 or 2 of the talent to help complete the projects.
    I have been interviewed for a new role based “at any of their global hubs” (they have one in the UK) and they want me to do the job. After a month of radio silence it turns out they cannot pay me if I stay in the UK, reason being they are only set up to do R&D in certain countries and even though the work (management) can be carried out remotely they cannot pay me unless I relocate (to another country!).
    I don’t want to move countries so will likely have to turn the job down. It’s a pisser because I really like the sound of the role and was excited to get started.

    So I will most likely be out of a job at the end of the year, reading between the lines I suspect they have set themselves up to exploit R&D tax breaks in other countries my employment from the UK would compromise their position and risk them not being able to claim R&D credit on any new technologies I was involved in developing. As I said Corporate policy and a pretty frustrating way to miss out on a great employment opportunity.

    Just venting in the hope that it helps me feel better.

    Premier Icon FuzzyWuzzy
    Full Member

    Pretty crap – although also sounds like a good opportunity to get out of this country (assuming they’d help with relocation costs)…

    Premier Icon fettling
    Free Member

    I would give relocation a go myself for a few years, would be a great experience. My family don’t feel the same way, which I can understand. It’s a big ask to relocate in the UK for a new job when the family are settled, let alone move countries (and cultures).

    Premier Icon 5lab
    Free Member

    it might be worth asking if there are opportunities for you to work as a consultant for one of their other legal entities. That way from their heirarchy perspective you are still a cost billed out of spain (or wherever) but from your perspective you are sat at home as a contractor. There’d be some tax\umberella company\whatever to figure out, but it might be a path

    Premier Icon MoreCashThanDash
    Full Member

    Ironically some companies set up shell companies in the UK to exploit our R&D tax breaks.

    That’s a real pisser though, especially if it’s a job you’d fancy in any other circumstance. Hopefully your skills will be needed somewhere more suitable.

    Premier Icon fettling
    Free Member

    Tried that option 5lab, unfortunately they think that is to complicated and has other risks they are not happy about. I see it as transferring many risks on to me, but hey ho. Gonna have to move on and find something better.

    Premier Icon Edukator
    Free Member

    Which countries would you potentially be relocating to? You’ll find a number of expats and emmigrants on this very forum who took the plunge and find the water lovely.

    Premier Icon footflaps
    Full Member

    reading between the lines I suspect they have set themselves up to exploit R&D tax breaks in other countries my employment from the UK would compromise their position and risk them not being able to claim R&D credit on any new technologies I was involved in developing

    HMRC has a very generous R&D Tax credit scheme, you can pretty much claim back all development costs. Unless other countries have a more generous scheme eg covering future revenues, I doubt this is the real reason.

    It might be they just don’t want the hassle of running a UK entity, our employment laws and costs are very high by US standards (very low by French / German standards though).

    Premier Icon RoterStern
    Free Member

    +1 for what Edukator said. I personally am happy I don’t live in the UK under the current political climate.

    Premier Icon Daffy
    Full Member

    Edukator
    Free Member
    Which countries would you potentially be relocating to? You’ll find a number of expats and emmigrants on this very forum who took the plunge and find the water lovely.

    It’s not always so easy with family, etc. I had the offer of a dream job in Seattle but my wife didn’t want to uproot herself or the kids, which is entirely fair.

    Premier Icon Daffy
    Full Member

    @fettling – what type of RnD are you doing at the moment? It’s amazing that they can’t find opportunities in the UK to make it worthwhile. UK RnD Tax credits are fairly generous and our wages are generally low compared to others in Europe.

    Premier Icon bigjim
    Full Member

    leaving little britain was the best thing I ever did, though obviously where you will be going and your family situation could make it less appealing.

    Premier Icon dyna-ti
    Free Member

    Life is short but it can be very varied, with what you’re doing today entirely different to what you may be doing in the future.
    I’d take take the move, relocate and play it by ear, and you might find other opportunities or paths open up.
    Might be better where you are going than here now, and if you decide against, then that might lead to a lesser status quo, continuing on but without direction.

    Premier Icon wobbliscott
    Full Member

    Companies use setting up facilities in other countries as a way to access other global markets. It is no longer the case that only the educated come from Europe and the US these days and plenty of other countries can provide the educated people (alot educated in the UK) to work for the company in a way to upskill their own population. Yes the company gets tax breaks, but that is the case with any country setting up in a foreign country, but the tax breaks don’t last forever and the ultimate aim is for the nation to upskill their own population so only allow ex-pats to support the business for a limited time and require them to employ a certain percentage of their own indigenous population.

    the company I work for has been at it for years and I’ve moved jobs a few times as the role was exported to one of our foreign hubs. Its a bummer so sympathies to the OP, but unfortunately other countries are hungry to create opportunities for their own indigenous population who, thanks to progress and the growing global economy, are all better educated and after better jobs.

    But though I never considered an overseas posting I regret it. Both for a career point of view and a financial point of view. I wanted to but the wife was never interested. Depends which country and your family/personal circumstances, but if they offer you an overseas posting its well worth considering. Many people in my company have extremely lucrative careers as full time ex pats, moving every 3 – 5 years from one foreign posting to another. Its a really good number if you can do it.

    Premier Icon cookeaa
    Full Member

    A long time ago I worked for a UK company with a US parent co. They essentially used us as an entity to Hoover up other UK based companies, their IP and some of their engineering resources. But we actually made a lot of their products. They even bought a west coast startup and moved all of their production and kit to us in the UK…

    And then, shock horror, they told us that the whole UK operation was being boxed up and shifted to upstate New York.

    It made almost no sense, they were binning an established sales and support team that covered half the planet, the R&D team that developed 90% of their proprietary products and the whole manufacturing team.
    They offered a couple of us the option to relocate to the US for pretty much no salary increase. But having observed the pattern of acquisition followed by a hearty asset stripping several times over, the best they got was my then boss agreeing to a short term contract solely to go over and help them set up production in the us. I think at the time there were substantial tax breaks available for them as a US firm if they could bring manufacturing to US soil rather than use overseas facilities and workers…

    Anyway, just how much of an “opportunity” is the relocation option? Will they actually be keeping you long term or will you be just another minion to be binned in 18 months when another restructuring opportunity comes along?

    Premier Icon MrsToast
    Free Member

    I’d take take the move, relocate and play it by ear, and you might find other opportunities or paths open up.

    He’s already said that his wife doesn’t want to relocate, and doesn’t want to uproot the kids. Which is fair enough – maybe she has her own career to think about, or extended family that she’s close to, and maybe the kids are of an age where an international move would be disruptive to their education (or they’d bitterly resent being taken away from their friends)?

    Premier Icon TheBrick
    Free Member

    ^Just what I was going to post Mrs Toast. My partner for instance would only go somewhere where she could happily carry on her career. Companies and people seem to forget that the other half have a life to.

    Premier Icon TheBrick
    Free Member

    Anyway, just how much of an “opportunity” is the relocation option?

    This is the other thing. Its fine if you’re single or childless but I know several people that have moved for a jobs and the company, or at least the managers know they have moved their family and they are now totally beholden to that company having moved their family to a foreign country. Not saying it will happen but to deny that it does happen is naive.

    Its sucks for sure! But as others say if you are single with no ties then why not take the opportunity, you never know what might be on the other side of the hill.

    I for one, missed a similar opportunity a few years ago where I was offered work in Sweden, relocation paid for, family paperwork sorted by firm etc, but turned it down due to the uncertainty and probably fear of the change.

    Anyway, a pal of time of mine took the job and has not looked back since, family settled in Sweden, standard of living way in excess of what we get in the UK etc. I get that circumstances are all different, but what do you have to lose?

    Premier Icon FB-ATB
    Full Member

    I’d take take the move, relocate and play it by ear, and you might find other opportunities or paths open up.

    Depends on the visa you’re brought in under. It may only be linked to that company so you’re tied to them. They go bust/ you get made redundant deportation follows swiftly. Also spouses may not be entitled to work.

    Premier Icon MoreCashThanDash
    Full Member

    I get that circumstances are all different, but what do you have to lose?

    From your username, more than you maybe? 🤣

    As a RAF brat, I know the problems big relocations can cause to families and kids, and thus was back in the day when a lot of spouses didn’t have their own careers as well.

    Premier Icon fettling
    Free Member

    Relocation options are Ireland, US or Costa Rica (although I am not sure Costa Rica is a genuine option). As others have said, my wife was not up for moving in the slightest pre-covid so even less keen now.
    They do have a UK office but it is sales and admin only. Cookeaa seems to have a similar experience, they have stripped assets out of the UK parts of the business and moved manufacturing over to Ireland. Usual story when closing the deal of how good a fit the companies were and welcoming us all to the team, followed 1yr later by we’re closing all your sites in the UK.

    Not the 1st US corporate to do this and they won’t be the last. The UK R&D tax credits system whilst generous is not as good as Ireland where they have chosen to do majority of European R&D and manufacture.
    I am going to find out what relocation and benefits package is on offer but that is mainly to help calibrate my expectations for a similar uk role.

    I work in R&D management for medical devices so there are plenty of jobs out there, only challenge is I am a lot more senior than the last time I was job hunting so the right opportunities are harder to come by.

    Premier Icon uponthedowns
    Free Member

    Anyway, just how much of an “opportunity” is the relocation option? Will they actually be keeping you long term or will you be just another minion to be binned in 18 months when another restructuring opportunity comes along?

    This ^^^^

    Premier Icon TheBrick
    Free Member

    Not the 1st US corporate to do this and they won’t be the last. The UK R&D tax credits system whilst generous is not as good as Ireland where they have chosen to do majority of European R&D and manufacture.
    I am going to find out what relocation and benefits package is on offer but that is mainly to help calibrate my expectations for a similar uk role

    I’m sure it’s Ireland r&d tax credit Vs the UK’s but their changing corporate tax. Ireland has become increadbly wealthy by being a good place to be tax efficient but in the EU now as they have been forced to up their corporate tax rate there are billions of pound in Ireland that cannot be easily extracted. So all these companies are now using that money to invest in Ireland to use that money in a profitable way. Brilliant play by Ireland over the past 35-40 years! Hence build your r&d in Ireland and put the money to use.

    Premier Icon CountZero
    Full Member

    Ireland is still part of the British Isles, and, depending on whereabouts the posting is, may be no further away from where you are now than London is from Newcastle. And they do speak English. My late partner lived in Schull, in the far south of the Republic, and she loved it there, only having to come back home after her health deteriorated and her then partner left her to come back to England.

    ?

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