Looks like Greece are sticking two fingers up to the euro bullies!!

footflaps – Member

The Greek government chose to play brinkmanship with the Troika. They didn’t have to, it was their choice. They put their egos before the peoples well being.

The other option they had, was to cave, and accept a deal which one of the 3 legs of the troika accepts was unsustainable and therefore pointless. The deal on offer is fundamentally the same as the last one- the shaft today, so you can come back to the table in a worse condition in a couple of years.

debts have and can be written off when it suits–err germany was forgiven all its debts so that it didn’t go ‘communist’

Not strictly true

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-01-27/germany-deserved-debt-relief-greece-doesn-t-i5fdca2y

The other option they had

was to actually follow through on some of the reforms they’d promised to and actually collect tax / sell off some assets.

They’ve basically been spinning their wheels for the last year hoping someone will just keep throwing free money their way.

Oh… hang on a minute…. thats not just Greece. I’ve inadvertently just summarised the problem with every single western, neo-liberal, capitalist economy, haven’t I?

I thought it was the difference between:

“We’re in a hole but we’ve got this plan here and here to get out of it by doing this and this, we just need some support in the mean time”

and

“We’re in a hole, but we’re not going to make any hard decisions to sort it out, just give us more money please thx”

.. but I’ve not been watching that closely…

https://medium.com/@gavinschalliol/thomas-piketty-germany-has-never-repaid-7b5e7add6fff

^^^ French Professor at the Paris School of Economics

Absolutely not. This is neither a reason for France, nor Germany, and especially not for Europe, to be happy. I am much more afraid that the conservatives, especially in Germany, are about to destroy Europe and the European idea, all because of their shocking ignorance of history.

I will be voting no come the referendum I think. The dream is dead.

Screw the EU, I will be voting no come the referendum I think. The dream is dead.

Luckily they might be asking more than just you to vote!

I thought you were a Zionist Tom, I I am guessing the EU dream doesn’t fit the Zionist ideals

Screw the EU, I will be voting no come the referendum I think. The dream is dead.

Have you noticed how Nige and his chums on the Tory backbenchers have been pretty much silent through all this? They’re happy watching Merkel and Hollande do their campaigning for a NO vote for them. Far more effectively than they could ever manage.

Cheers!

Luckily they might be asking more than just you to vote!

Of course.

They’ve been doing a fantastic job haven’t they? On the plus side, you’d think this would result in them giving some more concessions to CMD to try and encourage a Yes vote. On the minus side they’ve shown what intransigent bastards they are, so the likelihood of any concessions is low. I guess that means we’re leaving? Not sure any more whether to feel happy or worried about that. I think as NW admitted above, I’m a fan of European integration and free trading, but not in the current form – though fall a bit more on the side of the correct answer to that being to leave.

On a more immediate note, Gideon will be using the Greek tragedy as justification for making the poor poorer and ramping up his Austerity rhetoric in advance of his child poverty special budget (he intends to have all children live in poverty by 2020).

On a more immediate note, Gideon will be using the Greek tragedy as justification for making the poor poorer and ramping up his Austerity rhetoric in advance of his child poverty special budget (he intends to have all children live in poverty by 2020).

Yup, I don’t see Germanys obsession with austerity being good for the left here. Can’t quite believe Scotland wanted to leave the UK and align themselves closer with Europe.

Yes thank **** the tories are fighting against this tidal wave of austerity.

Now I’m confused. Are you in favour of austerity (Greek style) or not?

Yes thank **** the tories are fighting against this tidal wave of austerity.

🙂

Yes thank **** the tories are fighting against this tidal wave of austerity.

Not quite sure what the point of your sarcasm is here, as footflaps pointed out it’s only going to embolden the right.

FF, Why would he want to do that?

Sadly unless the € elite show mettle and leadership in demonstrating an orderly solution for Greece (part if EU but without €) then the loony sections of the European debate will have a field day.

Hopefully, we will have some sensible proposals (3-tiers?) or simply back to the original notion before we have to out one to paper here.

Now I’m confused. Are you in favour of austerity (Greek style) or not?

Austerity isn’t the root cause of the Greek problem and ending it wouldn’t solve any structural problems, just allow them to carry on living above their means ie prolong the day of reckoning.

Austerity isn’t the root cause of the Greek problem

Yes, it really is, they clearly need other reforms, but the austerity is crippling and very much the root of the problem.

Nope, the problem lies well beyond austerity, although ironic than an anti-austerity party is actually proposing a (less than previously) austere solution in the midst of a crippling econimic downturn, whereas a so-called austerity chancellor is doing nothing of the sort.

Funny old world!

Double post

ninfan – Member

don’t worry Sundayjumper – Ernie has a lob on for all things Argentine, particuarly Mother Christina. not long back he was regaling us with tales of the Argentine economic miracle, and how her central planning had led them to become the fastest growing economy in the world…
Posted 9 hours ago

Your capacity to talk shite and to shamelessly spout lies is quite frankly astonishing Z-11.

Do you use Richard Littlejohn as your role model ?

But of course you do make it up, time after time, like a veritable lie machine. No surprise there.

ernie_lynch – Member

I am not offering Argentina up as an example of an “economic miracle”, there is no such thing as an economic miracle, despite the fondness capitalism’s cheerleaders to constantly offer us examples of “economic miracles”, which btw always end up in tears…..remember the economic miracles which were Greece, Italy, Japan, Ireland, Iceland, etc ?

Argentina will have problems in the future, it is still fundamentally a capitalist country, and capitalism is always fundamentally flawed – however much you tinker with it.

Posted 3 years ago

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/with-austerity-biting-hard-across-europe#post-3433403

It’s like your mam threatening to tan your hide on the count of three if you don’t come in on time or something.

Germany/EU/IMF/CEB- “Greece, get in here now or I’ll tan your hide for you”

Greece- “No. I’m fed up of having to come in on time, you’re just so bossy all the time. You think you own the whole world.”

Germany/EU/IMF/CEB- “Don’t make me count to three. I’ll make you leave the Euro if you make me count to three.”

Greece- “Not listening to you any more. You’re just a big, fat bully. I remember when you were poorly a while ago and I helped you out.”

Germany/EU/IMF/CEB- “One… two… Are you listening to me? Don’t make me count to three mind. Two and a half…”

Greece- “Whatever. I hear the Drachma is nice this time of year. Ouzo?”

Germany/EU/IMF/CEB- “I’m warning you. Two and a half… two and three quarters… two and four fifths… two and five sixths…”

etc.

Interesting article in yesterdays Guardian about the Greeks are exposing just how fundamentally undemcratic the EU presently is.

I notice how Merkel had a meeting with Hollande to make it look like Germany wasn’t acting unilaterally when it does whatever its about to do. Nobody else was invited though. Apparently there are 28 countries in the EU. I believe they’ll be asked along to stand outside the parliament building in Brussels for their photo op later this week, before they rubber stamp whatever it is Germany has decided.

Democracy? Yeah, right. What a ****ing farce!

Even by Cameron’s standards this is vile:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/jul/03/david-cameron-immigration-greece-uk?CMP=share_btn_tw

I was thinking about this …. In theory, couldn’t the entire population of Greece just move to Germany and start claiming benefits?

Democracy? Yeah, right. What a ****ing farce!

OK, but if all 28 countries held a Referendum on whether to stump up more cash for Greece, do you think you’d get a Yes? I’d bet on No. As STW’s offical German Apologist, I suspect Merkel’s decision is in tune with German sentiment, so not that undemocratic.

I was thinking about this …. In theory, couldn’t the entire population of Greece just move to Germany and start claiming benefits?

Then I would move to Mykonos and claim sovereignty.

In theory though, under Europes freedom of movement rules – which the Germans have said all along are absolutely sacrosanct – any Greek (and therefore EU – for now) citizen could move to Frankfurt or Bonn and start signing on?

DrJ – Member

Even by Cameron’s standards this is vile:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/jul/03/david-cameron-immigration-greece-uk?CMP=share_btn_tw

I liked Osborne’s line in the budget too- we’ve got to cut corporation taxes, cut inheritance taxes, cut the BBC, inflict more debt on students, cut the benefits cap… Because otherwise we’ll end up like greece.

I suspect Merkel’s decision is in tune with German sentiment, so not that undemocratic.

Turkeys in not voting for Christmas shocker.

In theory though, under Europes freedom of movement rules – which the Germans have said all along are absolutely sacrosanct – any Greek (and therefore EU – for now) citizen could move to Frankfurt or Bonn and start signing on?

yep, they could also come to the UK!!!

I was thinking about this …. In theory, couldn’t the entire population of Greece just move to Germany and start claiming benefits?

Didn’t the Greek government stated they’d actively start encouraging people to do so?

if that programme I caught on channel5 last night is anything to go by, it’d be much easier to move to UK to sign on, than Germany.
/foxnewsdailymail

Well, exporting the unemployed has worked for Lithuania to the extent that Red Daria the Stalinist Moll now presumes to give advice to others, so maybe it’s a solution, of a sort.

So the economy that even the IMF says has totally unsustainable debts it has no chance of ever paying back, has been lent yet another 80 billion, with no write off of existing debt, and the samw conditions as the countless previous loans/bail-outs?

All in return for the same series of reforms, privatisations, and conditions they’ve been sayin they were going to implement for the last 5 years, but haven’t.

The can gets hoofed down the road for another few months, until it all starts all over again. 🙄

Totally agree this is another can kicking agreement. And considering what’s been agreed, what the hell was the point of the referendum last week??? Can’t see Tsipras being that popular with the masses.

Not exactly. The new deal includes the specific programme for the pillage of the country:

“valuable Greek assets will be transferred to an independent fund that will monetize the assets through privatisations and other means”

so, given that the economy cannot recover (as every economist agrees) the result will be a gradual (or sudden) return to the stone age, with all cultivable land owned by Germany and no industry of any sort remaining. An inspiring achievement.