Let’s talk about British education

From my experience, secondary school maths went from dawdling in the first year to flat out in the following years.

Subjects like that should be modular: you don’t get maths 1.2 until you’ve mastered maths 1.1, etc.

Realistically, to apply yourself methodically to these subjects, you need to have all your ducks lined up. That means ensuring you’ve got your study skills, fitness and nutrition down to a T.

Friends just returned to UK after living and teaching in France for 20 odd years. He has 10 years to retirement and says he will stick it out till retirement. If he had just started though in his early 20’s he says he’d jack it in and go and work in a supermarket! I had dinner on a ferry with a random bunch of people, turned out they were all teachers who had quit and gone travelling with no desire to return to the profession.

My wife’s a TA and is extremely good at it, not the sort who just turn up and sit there scrolling through their phone whilst the kids mess about.  She prepares and teaches lessons, nurtures the kids and supplies the extra background and insight that the teachers often can’t.   She would make significantly more money working in the Costa down the road from us and we wouldn’t need a second car either.

“It seems to me that a large part of the problem with education, like health care, is well meaning but uninformed people thinking that they know better than the professionals.”

Actually I think just like healthcare the opposite is the problem.  For some reason we expect doctors who have spent years studying the intricacies of the human body to be the ideal people to run hospitals and the healthcare system and teachers who are experts in educating individual pupils/classes to be the best people to design education at a country scale.  Even running a hospital or a school is not actually the core skillset that people trained in to be eligible for the job.   Of course, they need expertise and guidance from the specialists about whats possible and whats needed but it doesn’t automatically follow that years working in a likely ever more specialist area makes you the perfect person to see the bigger picture.

To clarify, “the professionals” I was referring to were the experts in healthcare delivery and curriculum design. Agreed not necessarily doctors or teachers.

Loads of people have opinions about these subjects. Few IME are well informed.

Our education system is exemplary, by comparison to the American system, which seems specifically designed to create an ignorant, compliant underclass ready to follow every instruction from an extreme right wing Christofascist ruling class.
Of course, it needs improvement in lots of ways, but a system like Americas that turns out students who are barely able to read or spell their own names is corrupt and rotten to the core.

I have had a varied career – working in three different continents, five countries, lots of different jobs. I’ve enjoyed most of them, but the only one I would never go back to is UK teacher. I loved working in the classroom, but couldn’t put up with other stuff.

I currently work with adults with learning disabilities, and every day I come home feeling I’ve done something worthwhile. Teaching should be like that but rarely is – instead I came home feeling that I’d contained some kids, ticked some boxes, filled in some forms, administered loads of exercises that did nobody any good but showed that I was following a curriculum …

There will never be a decent education system as long as those who love teaching are discouraged from doing it. If I had school aged kids I would do anything I could to keep them away from school.

I think in the UK, education is variable. Good and bad schools all over. A good headteacher makes all the difference and that’s where i’d centre any efforts at improvement.

Funnily, SaxonRider perfectly describes the average private school. Parents will pay circa £10-15k per year for a day pupil. This compares to a state average of about £7k for secondary.

I think the biggest issue with education is the multi-generational disengagement from it by many families in deprived areas. If education is going to be one of the tools we use to tackle deprivation, that’s the big problem we need to solve.

I’m also interested in this, but always worry that it could easily stray into unfair prejudice. It would be interesting to know from education professionals what the experience is here; could we offer an amazing uplift in education scope and quality and still see widespread disengagement in more deprived areas, conversely generating a disproportionate public expenditure benefit for the already ‘better off’, at least in the medium term? Or will the effect of just ‘better schooling’ automatically have a widespread and measurable/significant benefit, even if some remain reluctant to maximise it?

Better schooling and education experience sounds wholeheartedly positive for the UK in general, but as the OP raised it in the context of deprived areas, it is a relevant consideration.

Funnily, SaxonRider perfectly describes the average private school. Parents will pay circa £10-15k per year for a day pupil. This compares to a state average of about £7k for secondary.

Well, apart for the fact he said it should be free, all as close to the same quality as possible, identical buildings/facilities, religious worship free, and no emphasis on individual exam certificates.  And I’m not sure that your typical private school isn’t railroading people towards a line of work, albeit perhaps a more aspirational one.

Private schools also have a number of advantages beyond the simple fees:

– more discretion on who they accept
– easier to expel pupils who won’t follow their rules
– parents who are driven to get the best for their kids;  who can (usually) afford to pay for out of school extras
– flexibility on teachers salaries; recruitment with the open and honest expectation of out of hours work
– alumni funds or other cash to support infrastructure/capital

Has anyone mentioned that there is not a British or UK education system?

It’s a devolver matter, so we have four different education systems, with four approaches/ ethos and four different funding models etc.

As you were

Good point. Also, don’t forget state education is only ‘free’ to consume. It’s funded from tax. Interesting to note there are only a handful of private schools in Wales (8 I think).

Another feature of private schools is the old-boy-network. Never underestimate this!

Nowt wrong with private schools. They, like private health care take a small burden off the state sector whilst the users still pay for the latter. Those against are merely politically minded or more likely the type who regards fairness as we’ll share yours as you have more than me.

Anyway. What the OP describes is much like it really is. It is just so variable according to the raw material. The best schools are those where the kids behave. They learn more that way.  Money would help but with an aging and increasing population that isn’t coming from anywhere .

I’ll listen to those smug so and so’s here who say “I’ll pay a bit more tax ” when they show real care and start the ball rolling by selling their flash ebike and hand it to a child charity.

I work in a small school. 42 kids, 2 classes. We have 4 EHCP kids which means that they are struggling enough to get extra funding for a 1:1 TA for most of the day. We have 3 more with this in progress because they are too young for the process to be completed yet.  We have 2 more coming in next year.  We have 6 with a My plan which says they need help. We have 1 with 45% attendance because mum can’t get out of bed. Another rolls in at 10am every day and is collected 20 minutes late . No wonder the normal kids are leaving. No wonder the behaviour and attitude stinks and no wonder we can’t get staff.

Probably a vicious circle as those with poor educational results have less respect for schools. And that is where things are falling down. I speak from 30 years in the primary sector.  Behaviour issues start at home. A few kids have “problems” such as ADHD but most have just learnt to misbehave.  What is so annoying is that they and their families don’t care but they also wreck things for those who try.  I think of the 8 year old who today said that “I do things my way” and swore at all around before throwing his books at his mates.  All becuase he lost at footy. Mum ruffled his hair, gave him sweets and said “he does that at home”.  FFS!

Those against are merely politically minded or more likely the type who regards fairness as we’ll share yours as you have more than me.

My objection to private schools has nothing to do with either of those things. It’s that they perpetuate inequality.