Sadly, Jimmy the van needs to go to a better place and I am looking around for a slightly newer, less van-like vehicle to replace him in the near future. Pretty much the only requirements we have for said vehicle are that it needs a tow hook, roof rails and be an estate/kombi so that the dogs can fit in it comfortably.

The problem is the fuel source. Straight up Electric is out due to the lack of charging options and range we need and plugin hybrids are out of the price bracket. It all boils down to either diesel, petrol or petrol/ethanol. So, question: For a car like an A4/V70, which fuel source is going to be the least bad for the environment?

Petrol seemed a decent choice until I saw the economy figures for the normal V70. By Odin’s beard! They are shockingly bad, and that’s from someone that used to drive a 3.2l TT. Even putting E85 through a flexfuel one would only make it cheaper and not really lessen the CO2. Diesel seems to be better in all cases (especially in, for example, the 1.6 – 2.0l turbo engines), but will kill us all )and baby robins) with the particulates. Does killing people count as good or bad for the environment?

Anyway, if you had to choose a car for around 5k that fitted the above requirements (and was suitable for a a tall person) what fuel would you go for?

 Does killing people count as good or bad for the environment?

People are very very bad for the environment, they produce gas, waste and use up resources. By killing people with your car you will be saving polar bears, and that is a good thing.

5 pages.

It depends.   Climate change or air quality? Short journeys on local roads? high mileage on motorways? newer car with DPF, pre 2015 car etc etc

Where are you driving it? If it’s open country with good air movement diesel is less of an issue.

If in town, get a cargobike.

last generation Berlingo MPV petrol?  Supposed to do around 40mpg and doesn’t kick out the really horrible diesel particulates. Still not great for global warming but then just use it less and the fact you are buying secondhand is already environmentally friendly.

 Does killing people count as good or bad for the environment?

Definitely good.  If you’re serious about the environment, there’s only one answer:

At that price bracket stick with petrol and probably Japanese for reliability. Something like a Toyota Avensis estate would fit.

However if you are doing loots of miles something diesel e.g. the old VW 1.9pd engine might suit but they will be getting on a bit now and probably high mileage with potential big repair bills. DPFs dual mass fly wheels will be costly if they go wrong and more than the savings on fuel compared to a simpler petrol engine.

But as said above without knowing your mileage etc it is hard to say…

HTH

Get a petrol unless you are towing something with the tow bar, in which case get Diesel.

One big bill with a diesel can wipe out several years of fuel savings, and big bills are more likely buying an old 2nd hand diesel for < 5k than they are for petrol IMO

Given that we are renovating a house at weekends, a towbar (and towing) is going to be a consideration. Also, Sweden is a pretty big country. Jimmy doesn’t do town journeys (I have a bike for commuting), just long distance, so gives some pretty good economy figures. I want something that will improve on that and be as comfortable on the trips to Borlänge and Idre as he is.

Long distance = diesel

Petrol causes global warming so will kill us all over a long period of time.*

Diesel emits poisons so will kill locally over a short period of time.*

You are in Sweden, so kill locally. You’ll have minimal effect on brexiteers.

I assume hybrids aren’t available in Sweden due to the Swedes lagardly(sp?) approach to environmental issues.

* Actually they both do both.

Not 5k but awesome..

Or the wrong choice.

Infinity Q50s Hybrid.

£20k gets you a 2 year old car, that can run in electric mode.  Thing is it’s not there to be green, 3.5 v6 mated to an electric motor for 0-60 in 5.2 seconds for the AWD, but it will do 40mpg.  Lots of toys, reduced boot, no folding seats for a bike….

Yes please.

£20k gets you a 2 year old car

It’s also 400% of his budget.

If the petrol V70 is bad, I would assume a carefully chosen A4 would be a bit better.

Essentially though, even with the improvements in petrol engines (stratified charge, higher compression ratios, turbocharging/downsizing) a comparable diesel will still have a benefit in terms of CO2.

Currently tens of thousands of deaths a year are linked to poor air quality, and diesels will have a bigger (according to the test data)/much bigger (according to real world conditions) level of emissions. On balance, I’d go for petrol and drive it less. When I last bought a car, the petrol engine was cheaper too, this may well have changed on the second hand market (but probably hasn’t/won’t until diesels get banned from a lot of cities).

As above, choose a more sensible car than a v70 petrol? There are better A4 choices, or Skodas , or Toyotas or Fords or whatever. I’m getting over 50mpg, often over 60mpg out of my Skoda and I’d not want anything faster and it’s huge.

Also, do you really need such a big car? Is a smaller car plus roof box for the occasions you need a big car possible?

Anything with the 1.9 Tdi non dpf catalyst only engine in whatever flavour you want from Fabia to T5.

Big bills are not the exclusive domain of diesels if you can get one that is relatively simple, not stuffed full of sensors or DPF schizzle if possible. Plus, long trips are kinder to the dual mass flywheel.. fewer gear changes and stop start stress.

Drive steady so teh turbo isnt working too hard and mpg can be quite a surprise.

Well, I’m 197cm tall, so getting a smaller car means I end up being cramped and looking like it’s a clown car. I also have this aversion to my legs going numb on four+ hour drives. I know, call me old fashioned, but I like feeling my legs…

There is also the need to take people in the back seats. That is possible in a V70, even with me sitting in the front. That would be less possible in, say, a VW Up!. Again, clown car. But with two dogs.

I have looked into the V50 as an alternative and the 1.8 Flexifuel is better by a long way than the 2.5 petrol V70. I still need to take one for a test drive. Petrol are a lot cheaper than diesel cars as a rule (about 2000 Kr/year versus 3.5-4000 Kr/year in tax) and E85 capable are cheaper too (about 1500 Kr/year I think). VAG seem to be less efficient and more heavily taxed than the equivalents; the last A4 I saw was a 2.0TDi, was not that efficient compared to a 2.0D V50 and was taxed a lot more. As there are fewer of them, they are also more expensive. Basically, V<anything> is cheaper because there are many of them.

From your notes just above the difference in tax pretty much negates the difference in fuel economy if you bought a lower tax car and paid Kr1500 not Kr3.5k – 4.5k.

Shirley Kr1.5k – 3k pays the difference between 6l/100km diesel and 8l/100km (or whatever) petrol, on your annual milage.

You say “clown car” like that was a bad thing. That’d be a selling point for me.

rickmeister, I need to chart that out and see what the breakeven mileage is. However, taking a V50 as an example (all cars around the 2010 vintage and about the same price), I have the following figures:

1.8 Flexfuel – Tax 1086 Kr/year, 7.4 to 10.3 L/100km

1.6 Drive (diesel) – Tax 1103 Kr/year, 3.9 to 4.9 L/100km

1.6 D2 (diesel) – Tax 1259 Kr/year, 4.3 to 5-2 L/100km

2.0 D (diesel) – Tax 3605 Kr/year, 6 to 7.8 L/100km

95RON is about 15 Kr/L round here and diesel is about 15.80 Kr. E85 is cheaper. Even with the diesel premium, the 1.6 Drive is going to be an easy decision over the Flexifuel given that the economy is about twice as good and the tax is the same.

NOx and particulates are almost entirely only a problem to health locally as they are either washed out the atmosphere by rain or degrade into other NOx’s which aren’t so bad , so if you have a city full of diesel cars it’s bad, if you have a rural village with just a few its no problem as the pollution is diluted into insignificance.

Assuming you live in the middle of nowhere as you’ve ruled out electric, then get diesel.

If you want to get folk in the back, don’t go for an A4. See if you can get hold of a Skoda superb estate. They’re huge and a 1.9tdi would be fuel efficient. You could always look at an XC60 as well. Horribly fuel inefficient but very comfy for the tall among us. Jus sold me 8 year old one for 6.5k and it had all the doodles and wangles.

My old mondeo was an oilburner, and a euro 3 one at that. But the specific sort of pollution it was really bad for that would have been really bad news in a city, just wasn’t that big a deal on the more open road where it lived. Your usage is really important.

A4 isn’t in the same class of vehicle as a V70 btw, VAG are really good at vehicles that seem like big cars but have the carrying capacity of middle sized cars.

Well, I’m 197cm tall, so getting a smaller car means I end up being cramped

I’m taller than you – I don’t think larger cars typically give you more room (as the driver). Mid and large size cars need to create useable space for adults in the back and they often have to steal space from the front seats to achieve that – especially as NCAP safety features have started robbing space from the footwell – so in newer cars the driver space is getting squeezed from both side. The rear seats are less of a concern in smaller cars and you’ll often get more room for the driver in the front – designers of small cars don’t mind giving the front seats a range of adjustment that allows them to pretty much touch the rear seats. Not always the case-  but sit in a few small cars before discounting them – some of them are surprisingly roomy for the driver

Audi (and to some extent VW) are both older and more expensive than the domestic choices over here, but the Audis seem to be taxed hard and less efficient in all cases and fuels than even the VWs.

If I can leave work early enough, we’ll be going to see either an A4 Avant TDi, or a Passat TDi or a Legacy TD tonight.

How are the economy figures on the 2.0 petrol (roughly 2007-2010) or T4 petrol (1.6, 2010-2013) models?

Went through similar process with the previous mk2 v70 here in Finland where again they are very available vs other makes, ended up with 2.5t petrol as it is mostly low mileage, city driving (and on a low mileage, well kept, high spec model at a good price).

I’m only 187cm but not many other cars fitted a child seat behind me (3 kids in back) and the seat is oh so comfortable…