…am I the thickest here with just 2 CSEs! 🙂

University of Life and School of Hard Knocks innit.

The older I get, the less relevant exams that I took decades ago seem to be…

I know some very smart people (consultant surgeons for example) who can’t function well outside their chosen field, i.e. can’t use self checkout, regularly forget what fuel goes in their car, and profs that seem barely able to function in polite society (one or two I know are clearly un-diagnosed autistic). so what are you measuring when you say thick?

so what are you measuring when you say thick?

He is clearly talking academic qualifications, which isn’t the best measure of ‘thickness’.

Light hearted thread nickc – nothing serious meant by it!

My lack of qualifications is entirely my fault due to messing around at school in the final year.

Light hearted thread nickc – nothing serious meant by it!

aye, I get that. It’s an interesting one fo’shure, I’ve a receptionist at one of my surgeries, who swears she can’t do maths…but she can calculate odds (and the returns) in a flash as she used to help her old man run a bookies…try to persuade her that that IS maths…she won’t have it.

Light hearted thread nickc – nothing serious meant by it!

My lack of qualifications is entirely my fault due to messing around at school in the final year.

Same here, only substitute “final year” for “every day”.

Thick as mince me!

School of life here too. Been running my own small business for years and years. Do most of my own accounting, H & S, finance etc and taught myself these skills after finishing working on the tools. I know plenty of other people without an education in a similar position to me and doing very very well. Roll your sleeves up and getting on with it, work hard, take responsibility and a bit of luck can get you where you want to be.

Given second chance I’d get an education. In the workplace I find it allows you to start several rungs up the corporate ladder than the (lack of) experience should allow.

The older I get, the less relevant exams that I took decades ago seem to be

My A levels became irrelevant the minute I finished the exams.  My own fault for choosing chemistry and biology and although I use maths it is only for O’level type stuff if that.  I also got crap grades as I was more interested n cycling than revising.

For the majority of people the subjects taught at school at GCSE and beyond have no relevance and are just a means to be able to test and grade people.  Why not have more useful subjects (finances, politics and economics, dietary, sociiety, race/culture etc,.)  Could all be learnt and tested yet would be far more useful to most once they have left education.

I do think “qualifications” in some roles are seriously over thought of. A prime example being recruitment consultants, a lot are just “graduates” and have zero idea of what the real world entails or the industry they are providing labour for.

I got 10 gcses 3 a levels went to uni to do chemistry and dropped out to become a builder. I so wish I’d studied in the right field sometimes.

However in this game experience counts for a hell of a lot!

Degree in aeronautical engineering here, never worked in aeronautics or engineering come to think about it ! 🙂

yes, degree is not really relevant, good colleagues and good work attitude is more important.

I used to work with a number of very high achieving folk that you’d struggle to imagine in the outside world; I think that was IT haven to be honest in the 70s & 80s!

Equally, I know quite a few as you say highly qualified folk that are just like a sink for learning, trying to build this and explore that — enthusiastic about whatever they turn their hand to.

Depends…paperexams just prove you can regurgitate what you read. Practical examination proves you can do it, benefit to both but practical is better in my view.

I didn’t do badly at qualifications but none helped with my career…the practical stuff did though.

For the majority of people the subjects taught at school at GCSE and beyond have no relevance and are just a means to be able to test and grade people. Why not have more useful subjects (finances, politics and economics, dietary, sociiety, race/culture etc,.) Could all be learnt and tested yet would be far more useful to most once they have left education.

Yeah, and sex ed, 30 years since I left school and never needed that knowledge, what a waste of time that was.

Oh look a thread for people to say how qualifications are not needed by a load of people that havent got any. For what its worth I would reckon if you looked in prisons you’d find more people with no qualifications that “dont function in the outside world” than University Professors.

FWIW which isnt a lot I have far the worse GCSE results than any other teacher I’ve met.

Why not have more useful subjects (finances, politics and economics, dietary, sociiety, race/culture etc,.)

Well business studies is a GCSE, dont think Evonomics starts till A level, Politics is an A level. Race/Culture is a massive part of RE and GCSE Science has huge sections on diet as does Home Ec and PE

I can’t use a self checkout.

I also use my maths every day. But I should have studied Biology at school as I do that every day in my job. In fact it’s probably alarming to learn that I have no formal qualification in that important areas my job!

I never thought it would be what I ended up doing.

Education gives you choices, how you use them is a different mater.

I left 5th year (as it was back then) with a single graded CSE (3 or above IIRC). That was in metalwork and that was only because I wanted a fishing tackle trolley which I couldn’t afford to buy so spent hours making one. To be fair it was a great piece of work although somewhat over-engineered out of mild steel and weighed a ton 🙂

I re-sat stuff in a single year of 6th form and did much better (I was beginning to grow up and realise I had to take some responsibility for myself).

No A levels, and i didn’t pass english or maths o-level/gcse (despite a retake) still managed to get a BTEC and then degree. i didn’t learn to punctuate or spell until i had to write my dissertation, its not that i’m thick but suffered some poor schooling and got bored a lot a school (bunking off english to read TS Elliot in the library because ‘The Crucible’ was boring and had read it years before).

i know plenty of very dim people with A levels/degrees and some clever people with very little formal education.

my other half has an MA and speaks several languages. i wouldn’t trust her to rewire a plug.

My FIL scraped 4 O level passes on his nth attempt, went on to be a successful QS, put both kids through private schools etc.

Oh look a thread for people to say how qualifications are not needed by a load of people that havent got any.

Is any one saying that?  However, qualifications are not needed for a lot of things people do whereas for others they are critical.  Do you disagree with that?

Learning stuff at school is fine but putting so much emphasis on how well you revise and what grade you get is for a lot of people the wrong approach.  Obviously measuring attitude, initiative etc,. (stuff that actually matters when you work) is much too hard so let’s just stick to exam results…

My FIL scraped 4 O level passes on his nth attempt, went on to be a successful QS

Was  he a sarcastic, smart-arse who was tighter than two coats of paint with money?

Those are the primary indicators for success in that particular field of endeavour

Never mind that, the important thing is whether  the data (coupled with the one about how many holidays we take a year) is helping STW attract the right sort of advertiser! They should go straight to the point and ask us what our household income is.

Are we still a Maserati and posh watch sort of crowd?

Is any one saying that?

It is largely how these sorts of discussions go.

Learning stuff at school is fine but putting so much emphasis on how well you revise and what grade you get is for a lot of people the wrong approach.  Obviously measuring attitude, initiative etc,. (stuff that actually matters when you work) is much too hard so let’s just stick to exam results…

…because no one who does well in education ever shows a good attitude or initiative.

I know some very smart people (consultant surgeons for example) who can’t function well outside their chosen field

People always bring this one out, I think to make themselves feel better when presented with clever people.

For balance, I know loads of really clever people who are really clever in general as well as in their chosen field.

yes, degree is not really relevant, good colleagues and good work attitude is more important.

Depends what line of business you are in, but where I work (pharmaceuticals), it is very difficult at the moment to even get an interview without a PhD.  In the past, a specific degree or masters may have been enough.  Anything under that, forget it.

because no one who does well in education ever shows a good attitude or initiative.

Did I say that?   The point is that a lot of people who didn’t do well show very good attitude and initiative in jobs when they leave school (I am a very good example of that).  It is not all about academic results, how well you revise and what grades are achieved as a result of that but yet that is the ONLY measure you have when leaving school.

Are we still a Maserati and posh watch sort of crowd?

I’m in the battered 10yr old C-Max and Timex watch demographic!

I genuinely wish I had tried harder at school and not gone into the family business.

Oh look a thread for people to say how qualifications are not needed by a load of people that havent got any. For what its worth I would reckon if you looked in prisons you’d find more people with no qualifications that “dont function in the outside world” than University Professors.

FWIW which isnt a lot I have far the worse GCSE results than any other teacher I’ve met.

a lot of qualifications just open the next door*. ‘A’ Levels pretty much matter between the moment you open the results envelope and the point (usually in the next few hours) where you confirm or negotiate your next phase of study. After that you pretty much never have to refer to them again. But… of course the matter if they open that door, although theres more than one way to open it.

I don’t think I’ve ever been asked (in a professional/ recruitment context) what degree I got or from where. I think my gran wanted to know. But I seem to be succeeding in the career I studied for so I can’t say it didn’t matter.

From my experience in prisons I was really struck by a lack of literacy. Reading/writing aren’t higher intellectual functions so although they lacked that basic capability (either through lack of education or because of dyslexia) they weren’t people lacking in intelligence or resourcefulness – their illiteracy just closed the door to many of the legitimate ends they could channel that resourcefulness to.

* or help to open it. I left school will 10 O Levels and 3 A Levels, my bother left with absolutely zero qualifications. We both did the same kind of degree in the same kind of university and left with pretty much the same results and are now running pretty comparable businesses, successfully – he just had to be a bit cleverer in negotiating his way onto that degree.

I’d agree that nobody cares what results I got 20 years ago but it’s formed a key part of getting here.

Having not got the degree it made the first 4-5 years much harder and meant I needed to go the longer way round for a few things.

My SO’s Niece has struggled academically.  She is still trying to pass the minimum GCSE grades in English and Maths she needs to get on a childcare apprenticeship (which really are the minimum), but after 5+ attempts shows no sign of improvement, unfortunately.  I doubt she interviews well, and the best job she can get is washing dishes at a café a few hours a week.  She would be in a much better position if her parents had encouraged her a bit more academically from an earlier age.  Still, I’m sure it will work out in the end.

All this is very interesting and, for the sake of balance, two of the more successful people in my circle of friends that have done well for themselves through their own abilities rather than being handed to them on a plate both under-achieved academically. One of them spent years rueing the fact he didn’t have a degree, assuming it was holding him back.

Recently he received a very substantial investment return from the business he is now a director of. He bought a new house, paid off and kept his old house to rent out, bought two more houses as investments, bought his wife an E-Pace and himself an F-Type and told me he could now (aged 47) retire and live off what remains of his investment return. When he left school he had no qualifications and worked as a barman, then bar manager, then as the Bar Group’s area manager and went on from there.

1 GCSE for me but I did well in an interview at 16 that lead me down a career path where I’ve worked hard since to get where I am. Gained a degree during the process too.

It’s not just about the academic work it’s finding opportunities to work your way through.

I would bet my paltry salary high earners have better qualifications, up to a point, no one does a phd to get rich! The fact that there are exceptions whilst reassuring and a positive thing doesnt mean education, for all its imperfections isnt important it also doesnt mean that high achievers in education are any less able socially or ” in life”. As mentioned above prisons are full of people who didnt do well at school. The fact that the stw bubble dont know these as well as the self made, hard working, unqualified millionaires is not surprising.

The fact that the stw bubble dont know these as well as the self made, hard working, unqualified millionaires is not surprising.

The fact you assume they don’t. Add to that the social upbringing is more of an effect on that then their academic ability.

The fact that there are exceptions

Definitely not exceptions many actually do well.

It is not all about academic results, how well you revise and what grades are achieved as a result of that but yet that is the ONLY measure you have when leaving school.

Yes and no.  We still have interviews for jobs, and it is still possible for someone less qualified to get a job based on that.

Never mind that, the important thing is whether the data (coupled with the one about how many holidays we take a year) is helping STW attract the right sort of advertiser!

I await a pop up offering me 2 week training courses in Spain. Gain qualifications in the sun!

I maybe “thick” but if I look in the mirror I look “thin”

Exams, A levels and Degree totally relevant to my field of work.

All that education meant to me was to enable an acceptable reasoned argument, to enable groups of people to converse in a finance language (and understand each other) to enable critical analysis of complex methodology and transfer salient points into Requirements and BoW, and planning..

So all good.

I do know some exceptionally talented individuals who have no formal qualifications, who run rings around me in some complex analysis.

So, all good.

My advice, don’t get hung up on qualifications.

The poll has nothing to do with advertising. Hannah posted this one yesterday after a discussion in the office. The commuting poll before that was again, Hannah, and was intennded to guide her thinking on an editorial direction on cycling advoacy.

This one is down to it being A levels results time and we were interested to see what came of it. We’ve never sold a poll to anyone. We make them up for shits and giggles mostly. Sometimes we use them to inform what we do.

Awaits next poll…….

Do you like it when there are cows?

a. Yes

b. No

c.  I don’t like cats

d. They make you look like you have testicles.

Add to that the social upbringing is more of an effect on that then their academic ability.

True the social status leads to better exam results but thats not the same as academic ability. State school kids with the same grades do better than private school kids at Uni as they have better academic ability. Many of these high achieving people with no academic results could well have great academic  ability but it was just never tapped into.