We’ve got a set of Sabatier V ones we’ve have for donkeys years. But now they just don’t seem to hold an edge. So do they reach a point where it’s time for a new set?

I’ve been using a combination of sharpening steel and one of these devices (below), but neither seems to be working now.

*if that is a word! 🙂

Hardly surprising you’ve effed ’em up using that crap. But they are salveagable using a decent diamond stone or waterstone. Theses are good!
https://www.classichandtools.com/james-barry-tapered-6-file-with-handle/p1588
That’ll get your edge back then strop it to get it sharp

I’ve got a few kitchen knives ranging from a gorgeous 50 yr old Sabattier that goes rusty to an excellent plastic handle £5 TK-Maxx job that cuts like a dream.

Using the old sharpening steel would result in an uneven curve on the blade (and opening tin lids made the end a bit wonky) so I stick them in the vice and use a file to get a better profile and then apply an approximate 20 degree edge to them. Then using an oilstone (the sort for sharpening chisels and planes) or diamond stone (it helps that I’m a carpenter but a £5 diamond sharpener from B&Q is fine). Then they’re ready for that device you’ve got.

I’ve got something similar to one of those (Kitchen Devil) and use it all the time to get frighteningly sharp knives.

Something that is rarely mentioned is that there’s a difference between sharpening and honing. The first bit with a file and oilstone is the sharpening – something you might do every couple of years. Honing is what you do every day and will only be effective if the edge has the right angles. If it doesn’t then it needs sharpening.

Something that is rarely mentioned is that there’s a difference between sharpening and honing. The first bit with a file and oilstone is the sharpening – something you might do every couple of years. Honing is what you do every day and will only be effective if the edge has the right angles. If it doesn’t then it needs sharpening.

This +1

Sharpening is taking material off the blade to leave the sharp edge. Blades lose their sharpness as the material is eroded over time or if you drop it hard enough to blunt it.

Honing is what a steel does, you’re straightening the point as over time it get’s bent over by whatever you’re chopping, the boards, worktops, being dropped etc. You can test for it (or whether you’ve been pressing too hard with the steel) by running the blade back across your skin and feeling if it catches.

So yep, if all you use is a steel (or a gadget that does the same thing) then the knives will eventually still go blunt.

waterstone

whetstone, nothing to do with “wet”, it’s the same etymology as to whet (sharpen) your appetite

whetstone, nothing to do with “wet”

Ahem. I use a Japanese Waterstone for sharpening oboe reed knives.

just hijacking the thread here, how do you lot sharpen (or hone) your serrated knives? My breadknife is an absolute menace these days, and I’m not entirely sure what to do

(and opening tin lids made the end a bit wonky)

😱

Well, maybe it was more like the intricate bit of filleting fish but after years of sharpening (honing!) the end had got as flimsy as silver paper so I reshaped the sharp point into more of a puffin bill shape.

“Ahem. I use a Japanese Waterstone for sharpening oboe reed knives.”
Any pics of your reed knives?

Any pics of your reed knives?

Mine are Gregson single bevel jobs like this.

As a rule, I sharpen our knives.
My partner then picks them up and drags them across a steel at any angle imaginable in random patterns.
I sharpen them again. 😅

*if that is a word!

It’s not. The word you’re looking for is desharpenificatory. HTH

As a rule, I sharpen our knives.
My partner then picks them up and drags them across a steel at any angle imaginable in random patterns.

As a rule, I sharpen our knives. My partner then picks them up, washes them with a hammer and rams them blade-down into metal draining racks along with all the other cutlery.

There have been arguments.

I sharpen them again. 😅

My time too will come.

just hijacking the thread here, how do you lot sharpen (or hone) your serrated knives?

You can hone a breadknife with a steel if you’re careful and patient. If it’s buggered to the point of needing sharpening (from cutting bread?!) then I’d just replace it.

whetstone, nothing to do with “wet”, it’s the same etymology as to whet (sharpen) your appetite

There’s different kinds and many are best used with water or oil.

My in-laws knives were serrated and blunt from 50 years of that style of sharpener

An hour with a whetstone and they are sharp and much less serrated

Every three months or so the knives in the shop(butchers) would go off to be reground. Or flat ground to be exact.

I understand flat grinding will give you an extremely sharp edge, but I think its just down to personal preference, or the way you were initially taught.  Having a shoulder on the blade isnt a problem, and its easier to do yourself, whereas flat grinding needs a fancy machine and costs money.

If I was to recommend anything, it would be to buy a decent steel, at least 12″, preferably 14″ if your knives go up to 12″ blade length.

Then learn to use it.

There’s different kinds and many are best used with water or oil.

They would still both be “whetstones” (in English, the Japanese are welcome to call them whatever they like).

It’s the same principal as grinding a lens, the oiled grinding stones use a stronger binding agent, upside it stays consistent for longer, downside it tends to be blunt because the surface isn’t renewing. Stones used with water tend to be softer which means you’re constantly exposing fresh abrasive, but lose their shape quicker as a result.

(and opening tin lids made the end a bit wonky)

I see you attended the same knife-skills class as Mrs Sandwich.

(There have been words exchanged).

They would still both be “whetstones”

They are but water stone and oil stone appear to be common terms for different types of whetstone, and I don’t think anyone actually said “wetstone”. And as we all know it’s very important to correct people on the internet 🙂

And as we all know it’s very important to correct people on the internet 🙂

It’s the same principal as grinding a lens

And as we all know it’s very important to correct people on the internet

I concur. The principal reason for me correcting people is their misuse of the words principal and principle 😁

For tall_martin, I sharpened my in-law’s knives with whetstone, honing etc and was immediately told never to do it again. MiL’s hands were cut to pieces the next time she used them.🤭

DMT Aligner is a good piece of kit for sharpening. Not as perfect as some of them out there, but nowhere near the price either!
It will sharpen to hair-popping with little trouble, and the coarse can quite quickly recover a very blunt knife.

@Elbows- I always make sure that everyone knows once I’ve done the rounds! Especially as my girls tend to just drop most of our kitchen knives into bubbly washing up water and walk away…

All I’ll say is that you need to use knives on an end grain wooden chopping board to prolong the edge of the knife. It’s a softer more forgiving chopping surface.

When I see people using expensive knives to do food prep on plates or glass chopping boards, it makes my teeth curl, but it curls the edge of the knife more.

I sharpened my in-law’s knives with whetstone, honing etc and was immediately told never to do it again. MiL’s hands were cut to pieces the next time she used them.🤭

Whhhaatt! Actually blunt knives are much more dangerous.

My knives stay sharp most of the time as I use the honing steel to maintain the sharpness. A bit lazy to use the Japanese whetstones.

I have 3 different types of honing steel. i.e. diamond coated, ceramic and two other different grades of the standard steel (fine and normal). Most of the time I tend to use the steel to be followed by the ceramic.

If you are buying a honing steel make sure the hardness of the steel is higher than the blade of your knife. Otherwise, the honing will not be effective. Most honing steels have a hardness of 62HRC if I can recall but I cannot confirm and will only buy those clearly labeled.

If you have Japanese knives then the hardness is usually rather high so you may need the steel to be harder.

My current sharpening stone is just a thrown away square shape stone I collected from building site, which is surprisingly good. The grind is I think rather fine but I only use it when I need to.

I use a Lansky kit to put a decent edge on them, probably every six months or so. They are certainly sharp enough to slice a ripe tomato with no effort. I have a Chantry sharpener on the worktop (which is actually a misnomer as it’s actually a guided steel…..) which I used to steel the edge after each use. The Chantry only needs a light swipe through to straighten the edge, and very much prolongs the interval between re-grinding. It’s much less faff than a hand-held steel, and doesn’t require any particular skills.

https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Chantry-Knife-Sharpener-P383.aspx

I also use various butcher’s knives to gralloch, skin and butcher venison. They are kept shaving sharp, again with the Lansky guided kit, then stropped on a bench strop indoors, or on the inside of my belt in the field. I use a diamond steel on those if I’m doing a whole carcass, especially important for the boning knife as contact with bone can turn an edge quite easily.

@defblade – she watched me do it, commenting how she would not have the patience. Complimented me on slicing tomatoes and wafted paper. Then promptly forgot and treated them like her old blunt knives.

(in English, the Japanese are welcome to call them whatever they like).

Waterstones are designed to be kept immersed in water until needed, to allow excess metal to float on a lubricating film of water.

I’ve got a couple of Lansky sharpeners, one’s a set of four ceramic sticks in a box with hinged ends, with coarse and fine ceramic sticks that can be set at two different angles, the other is a little plastic jobbie that cost a fiver and will go on a keyring, with two thin ceramic sticks set for thick and thin blades, it’s perfect for giving a quick touch-up to my kitchen knives, although my two ProCook knives just need a quick polish on my leather strop occasionally, they’re only used for major veggie slicing, I’ve got a bunch of cheap knives that get the Lansky treatment, and they’re more than sharp enough for general kitchen duties – Joey was too afraid of them to use them, I kept some for her to use, her favourite was a cheap little knife with a fine serrated edge. Her problem was a lack of feeling in her left hand from a brain haemorrhage, and she was left-handed, so managing a sharp knife with a six or seven inch blade was difficult for her to manage.

I’ve got one of these at home. Got it with and for sharpening planer blades off my planer/thicknesser, chisels and of course knives.

It pretty much can be used to sharpen anything that has an edge on it. I keep meaning to see if i can pick up any of the other attachments, drills etc, but they’re not easy to find 2nd hand and new they’re really pricey

Excuse the cheesy vid 😆

If your knives have gotten beyond the point of you feeling confident of sharpening them then there are several sharpening services available. ‘The sharpening shed’ did a good job of restoring a chipped blade on a big Global chef’s knife of mine. No blade defiler was ever found.

I used to use a couple of grades of water-soaked whetstone + clay every so often on my knives. Now I tend towards my Shinkansen sharpener: quicker, easier, and effective.

Ceramic steel before and after each use. Handily, my children leave knives out after using them most of the time so they rarely miss a swish of the steel.

Waterstones are designed to be kept immersed in water until needed

Not really, there’s different types – soakers and splash and go stones (I prefer the latter), the main difference is the water/slurry acting as the lubricant rather than oil. Even soakers are rarely left permanently in water, most just need to be immersed for an hour or so before use.

I drop mine round to Bryn.

https://llewelynsharpening.co.uk

I just make some knives out of toolsteel that will hold an edge unlike most horrible stainless steel knives.
I use japanese waterstones, never used a guide, just a lot of practise.

Everything can be sharpened its just a matter of how much material you need to remove and then if it will actually stay sharp for more than 2 minutes.

I’m planning on getting some decent Japanese knives for the kitchen, as it happens – so, is a whetstone not enough, I need a strop/steel too?

My partner then picks them up, washes them with a hammer and rams them blade-down into metal draining racks along with all the other cutlery.

There have been arguments.

One benefit of the divorce, my nice knives never show up in the dishwasher or “soaking” in the bottom of the sink under everything else.
So are almost always sharp.

Plus i don’t get complaints when my ex mother or father in law forgets i’ve put a decent edge on their knives *just like they asked*. They just live with blunt knives.

I’m sure most of their knives are probably blunter than the steel by now.

I’m planning on getting some decent Japanese knives for the kitchen, as it happens – so, is a whetstone not enough, I need a strop/steel too?

Depends what you’re using them on, as has been said before a ‘steel’ is for honing rather than sharpening so useful if you’re cutting through meat and hitting bone occasionally or maybe even just chop aggressively into a hardwood board (where you’re distorting the edge rather than dulling it). I’ve not got a ‘steel’ myself, I just occasionally use a whetstone and leather strop (it’s surprising how much difference the strop makes, although it’s debatable whether you need to worry about getting a really sharp edge on a workhorse knife).

You also need to be careful with a ‘steel’ and Japanese knives, depending on the type of steel the knife is made from you might need a ceramic ‘steel’ instead (and they can actually sharpen a bit)

For my chisels and plane blades i use a diamond impregnated ( not coated) piece of ground tool steel . Cant remember the manufacturer, but its a great bit of kit to flatten the backs. Finish off by stropping on a bit of old welding apron with some smurfpoo rubbed into it, gives a razor sharp mirror finish.
For kitchen knives i used to use waterstones until they dished out irreversibly (they were cheapie jobs off ebay but did the job). Nowadays i use ceramic splash and go whetstones, stay flatter longer with a similar removal rate as the softer waterstones. Again, stropped with blue smurfpoo to a mirror finish.
Whole process takes less than 5 mins for a touch up, bit longer to get rid of chips or bad rolls.