Karate

My kids (5 & 7) have just started and I’ve been roped in. The headmistress at their school runs the club and she has 3 or 4 red stripes on her black belt, so I assume that she is hard as nails.

My observations so far are as follows:

1) Learning the moves is very frustrating. Reminiscent of the ballroom class that I had to go to with the wife as a trade off for a skiing holiday many years ago.

2) Shouting in Japanese makes me feel a bit self-conscious.

3) My son thinks that sitting on a radiator counts as a warm up.

4) Putting your hands in your pockets or picking your nose earns you a bollocking.

5) As a result of the stretching and bending I am free from niggling knee pain for the first time in 6 months.

Anyone else do it? How good or bad are you? How long before you take your first grading?

Maybe you should read about its origins a bit more to respect / learn what it is you are entering. Or don’t do it.

IMO, any of the martial arts are a great deal more than “fighting” and thier history & context should be understood before entering into it.

PS – “Black Belt” is merely a measurement of obtaining an average standard in the “real” system.

I’m not sure I agree with Kryton – one doesn’t need to have a good understanding of the history of road cycling and the more obscure one day classics to start riding a bike but it can come later when you get ‘into’ it.

I think learning the standard moves is like doing scales on a piano – pointless in themselves but creating a base for more complex things later. It can feel a bit ‘wax on/wax off’ for a long time before you start doing other things.

I’ve got a vision of the OP stood there with a class of sniggering, 3ft tall 7 year olds as he’s shouted at by the teacher for picking his nose.

Maybe you should read about its origins a bit more to respect / learn what it is you are entering. Or don’t do it.

Eh? Careful up there on your high horse.

Just to clarify. It is the 5 year olds that are picking their noses. Not me.

I enjoy it and the knee improvement is an unexpected bonus as I was half expecting to make it worse.

I was just wondering if anyone else had got involved as a result of taking their kids and how they were getting on.

If you want to become “hard as nails” or indeed learn how to defend yourself, or teach same to your kids take them to Judo or Boxing instead. Look at Karate as light contact yoga or Tai Chi. If it’s a classical style, do it for the sake of the art and the discipline/fitness it’ll give you or your kids.

If it’s Shinkyokushinkai, then it might actually teach you something about fighting too.

One of my mates does karate. He’s always injuring himself. I’ve lost count of the number of times he’s had broken/dislocated toes or bruised ribs.

There’s a guy in Todmorden who does karate in his garden in the morning opposite the train station. I was watching him the other day and it looks very boring.

I’m not sure I agree with Kryton – one doesn’t need to have a good understanding of the history of road cycling and the more obscure one day classics to start riding a bike but it can come later when you get ‘into’ it.

+1

I used to do semi-contact kick boxing, basically karate without the pseudo intellectual BS and a lot more sparing. Gets you really fit, plus being able to knock out a spinning crescent kick whilst pissed really impressed the ladies 😉

My 7 year old has been doing it for 18 months. Son#2 will be going when he is big enough.

It looks to be a great way to stay flexible, I am considering taking it up myself.

@Kryton57 – Ooohh Get you!

If you want to learn scrapping, Krav Maga is a good place to start.

I trained for 13 years and reached the level of Sandan, or third degree black belt in one of the original three styles, Naha Te subsequently called Goju Ryu. The orher two are Shuri Te and Tomari Te. From these three styles, which are all derivations of Chinese Kung Fu, you get all the subsequent derivations of which there are almost as many as their are practitioners . Shodan, the first level, indicates you’re ready to start serious training. There are n+1 years between black belt grades whee n is your current level. No serious karateka would put tabs on their black belt. It’s just poor etiquette.

As with all martial arts, it’s far less about the style and far more about the teacher. You’ll know if you have a good teacher. The whole heirarchy and discipline thing is very much a Japanese cultural hangover. Defence to authority is very common in Karate. For example I would never have dreamed of called by instructor anything but Sensei, regardless of the situation.

I loved my training. It was a very large part of my life when I trained from age 18 onwards.

I do it with my kids and its a good introduction to the principles and the art.

The history is irrelevant [ and disputed anyway] and so many want to keep it sacred and not let it evolve…take that which is useful

I agree other forms are better* for self defence but if you do anythign for 10 years you will be able to look after yourself.
if you really want to fight do MMA or similar as it will teach the “best” bits of a variety of styles.

* been doing a lot of boxing of late and its pretty impressive if you dont “cheat” and kick them
Kids also good enough to do contact stuff now and proper training with me/mates

1) Learning the moves is very frustrating. Reminiscent of the ballroom class that I had to go to with the wife as a trade off for a skiing holiday many years ago.
IT TAKES TIME but you can always improve but some of it fairly pointless
2) Shouting in Japanese makes me feel a bit self-conscious.
YOU GET USED TO IT
3) My son thinks that sitting on a radiator counts as a warm up.
THEY CAN EVENTUALLY DO IT ALL
4) Putting your hands in your pockets or picking your nose earns you a bollocking.
INDEED DONT MOVE UNLESS TOLD TO
5) As a result of the stretching and bending I am free from niggling knee pain for the first time in 6 months.
YOU ARE NOT DOING STANCES THEN AS SOME OF THEM HURT A LOT

Look at Karate as light contact yoga or Tai Chi

Says the person who hasn’t got a clue what they’re talking about.

I used to do semi-contact kick boxing, basically karate without the pseudo intellectual BS

FIFY. I saw a ‘kick boxer’ get into the wring with a Thai Boxer once. Kick boxer came out with a spinning reverse roundhouse (with pike). Thai <Edit> boxer timed their right hook to contact right at the point the kickboxer spun their head round to spot the target.

conkerman

If you want to learn scrapping, Krav Maga is a good place to start.

Bad place to start, good place to progress to if you are a doorman,cop,soldier or involved in security in some way. I attended a few seminars and it’s good stuff but a grounding in some other styles would prepare you for it.

geetee1972

Look at Karate as light contact yoga or Tai Chi

Says the person who hasn’t got a clue what they’re talking about.

I trained in Karate and Jiu Jitsu for four years (I think) when I was a kid with Josie Murray who trained my dad. Then progressed to “American” Kickboxing as a teenager with Paddy Toland. Started Jeet Kune Do at 18 under John Kavanagh, did that for 5 years but had to stop due to a shoulder injury. Started training in BJJ and MMA at 27, managed another four years before I got put out due to another shoulder injury. Decided I enjoyed getting injured on my bike more than fighting. But yes, I haven’t got a clue.

No 5 sounds like it makes numbers 1-4 worthwhile.

For example I would never have dreamed of called by instructor anything but Sensei, regardless of the situation.

What even if you’re having a pie and pint after class?

@Kryton57 – Ooohh Get you!

Sorry, maybe I misunderstood the OP, I thought he was posting in deliberately comic/trite style.

Indeed they are all impressive and it does not matter what you have done if you get someone at say third dan in anything they will be more than capable of defending themself.

What it may mean is certain things are more useful as you are unlikely to be attacked by a man in armour with a sword or a knife on a chain [ run away quickly]

MMA quickly showed that you need to have good grounding in a number of arts to win though 1-1 BJJ is the best . Its pretty poor against multiple opponents though so it has it limitations

they all have their strengths and their weaknesses
I know some awesome karate folk who will happily do some light ta chi with you

I’ve done 1/2 dozen different martial arts over the years including several karate styles. Karate can include self defense training which was similar to Jujitsu I think in the one I did. Judo was good but the semi contact karate class I went to was my favourite – mostly as they weren’t too strict and we did loads of sparing and bag work with not so much kata which I wasn’t too bothered about. Oh and I did like breaking!

Kick boxer timed their right hook to contact right at the point the kickboxer spun their head round to spot the target.

What even if you’re having a pie and pint after class?

LOL, most especially then!

It’s difficult to explain how the deferential culture worked. It was just how it worked. If you wanted to train with him (and a lot of people did because he was seventh dan and his training was excellent), then that’s just what you did. It is almost impossible, in this culture, to explain to someone why that was a perfectly reasonable thing but it was.

I dount anyone outside of that culture would understand. I look back myself and sometimes can’t quite believe it myself either. In some ways, it did have some of the hall marks of a ‘cult’ without such sinister overtones (although there are plenty of examples where that is precisely what is going on).

1-1 BJJ is the best . Its pretty poor against multiple opponents though so it has it limitation

Absolutely +1 for that.

Harry Spider’s house on a Sunday morning;

Which style of Karate?
I did Shotokan with my dad & brothers when I was young (like you and your son) but eventually dropped out, think the instructor thought his wife and my dad got on a little too well. Picked it up again at poly (brilliant teacher/Sensei) before joining a local class, where the teacher was more interested in getting competition result/reputation, not why I did it.. so left. Pity as I enjoyed it lots but then I loved the kata’s, was ready for my 1st brown (not very high I know), on both occasions..
IIRC gradings, assuming you get up to scratch happened every 3 or so months.
1) Practice make perfect, it’s lot about building muscle memory.
2) Never did that, well don’t remember doing that.
3) This seemed to be the case for lots of classes.
4) Stop wear trackies and get a Karategi & have some respect for the teacher/class [ahh I see it he kids].
5) All good!

How come you picked Karate? I loved it (more as young adult) but think maybe Aikido (or the like) would be a better choice for building childrens confidence without increasing there chances of being involved in ‘fights’ (which when kids at school find out they do karate, is a constant niggle)

The kickboxer hit himself, wot a knob 🙂

FIFY. I saw a ‘kick boxer’ get into the wring with a Thai Boxer once. Kick boxer came out with a spinning reverse roundhouse (with pike). Kick boxer timed their right hook to contact right at the point the kickboxer spun their head round to spot the target.

so they knocked themself out? nice work.

and that clip up there is a choreographed outtake from never back down.

I used to do it back when I was a teenager into Jackie Chan films, I loved it and ended up having quite a martial arts heavy timetable;

Monday – karate
Tuesday – kickboxing
Wednesday – wrestling
Thursday – karate then aikido

I actually preferred the ‘learning moves’ aspect of karate and aikido over the fighting times of kickboxing and wrestling.

Since moving about a bit I have tried to get back into something but just can’t – recently tried kung fu but found it wasn’t for me.

I say if it is fairly enjoyable and has a side benefit – i.e. the knee pain going away then keep with it, don’t focus on gradings and belts unless you want to brag about where you are – it is just a way of showing how long you have been doing it for really.

For the record I feel the same thing about things like spin classes and yoga – if it benefits something else (e.g. riding) and you enjoy it then do it.

Obviously that is just my opinion.

But yes, I haven’t got a clue.

About Karate, it would appear you don’t.

What is insightful though (not sure if you intended this or not), is that martial arts break down most broadly into the internal and external types.

External relly on muscle conditioning to generate power. Internal relly on ‘chi’ or internal energy to do this. We can debate that till the cows come home and I am not saying there is anything to ‘chi’ but I have experienced the force that internal practitioners can generate without seemingly any muscle tension.

Most of the Shuri Te derived styles of Karate don’t place much emphasis on the internal components (so Shotokan, Wado-Ryu etc). The Naha Te dervied styles like Goju Ry and Uechi Ryu do try to develop it through a traditional kata called ‘Sanchin’ but that does still use extreme body tension as well we trying to develop so called ‘internal energy’.

Tai Chi is an internal martial art. Yoga is not a martial art of any kind but it’s principles of breathing from the diaphram (I think they call it Hathic Breathing?) is replicated in Sanchin.

So, there are link between Karate and Yoga. Barely any between Tai Chi and Karate. If that’s what you meant than I apologise.

It is almost impossible, in this culture, to explain to someone why that was a perfectly reasonable thing but it was.

Was this in the UK?

Like many things it depends a lot on the club. Some are all about pushing people through the grading, as that’s where they make their money, so in the end you become a black belt in no time and brilliant at kata, but pretty useless when it comes to defending yourself.
If you train somewhere where there is a lot of contact sparring then you get pretty bloody good at fighting and defending yourself, or beaten up every week.

Did karate (Shotokan)for years ,great fun and it kept me out the pub.
It was a good way to get fit if you put in the effort, and it enhanced my dance skilz no end 😉

Was this in the UK?

Yep – dojo was down the Walworth Road, near the Elephant & Castle. Interesting place.

One of my mates (who used to fight Nam Yang globally) introduced me to Xing Yi a few years ago. It sounded very odd until I saw him demo it. Very unusual (to my untrained eye) but incredibly powerful when you’re on the receiving end of it.

I fancy giving it a go myself at some point. In the meantime I reckon I’ll take monkey jnr to some form of karate class soon.

Hsing I Chuan is the internal style I experienced. It is very very weird to be on the receiving end of that kind of technique.

Do Karate, OK.

Not do Karate, OK.

Do Karate “maybe”, get squashed like bug.

Spacemonkey’s video:

Is that little fella in blue having a cheeky feel at 1:34?

Can only go on what I’ve seen myself.. I tried martial arts as a kid. My view of them was that it was all about set moves and pretty useless unless fighting another proponent of the same style. This was confirmed when our ‘grand master’ at wing chun got punched in the face by a student because he punched him with the ‘wrong hand’.

My personal favourite is boxing. I’ve done it now three nights a week for 20 years and think it’s a great sport, but everyone has their own favourite.

They’re all great for building confidence but one thing to remember about any combat sport used for self defence, the vast majority of assults happen when you’re not expecting them, or too drunk to do anything about them.

Anyone else do it? How good or bad are you? How long before you take your first grading?

I practiced karate from the age of 7 to 25. It took over a bit whilst I was at Uni and I was training every day and travelling to all sorts of places to train with different people. Then I stopped suddenly two years ago, but I won’t go into that.

This is a great thing to do for your kids. Especially if it’s the headteacher teaching them!

Karate and martial arts usually attracts a lot of nonsense from people saying one’s rubbish and something else is much better. If you find a good club run by someone you can aspire to then you’ll enjoy yourself and sticking with it will be rewarding. Since this is a club at your kids school run by the head I suspect you’re taking them to the right place.

How long to your first grading… depends how long until you’re ready 🙂

In my experience, especially with kids clubs there tends to be regular opportunities to grade every 3 or 4 months to keep them interested. I wouldn’t be surprised if the head decides to do a grading at the end of each school term.

geetee1972 – Member

But yes, I haven’t got a clue.

About Karate, it would appear you don’t.

What is insightful though (not sure if you intended this or not), is that martial arts break down most broadly into the internal and external types.

External relly on muscle conditioning to generate power. Internal relly on ‘chi’ or internal energy to do this. We can debate that till the cows come home and I am not saying there is anything to ‘chi’ but I have experienced the force that internal practitioners can generate without seemingly any muscle tension.

Most of the Shuri Te derived styles of Karate don’t place much emphasis on the internal components (so Shotokan, Wado-Ryu etc). The Naha Te dervied styles like Goju Ry and Uechi Ryu do try to develop it through a traditional kata called ‘Sanchin’ but that does still use extreme body tension as well we trying to develop so called ‘internal energy’.

Tai Chi is an internal martial art. Yoga is not a martial art of any kind but it’s principles of breathing from the diaphram (I think they call it Hathic Breathing?) is replicated in Sanchin.

So, there are link between Karate and Yoga. Barely any between Tai Chi and Karate. If that’s what you meant than I apologise.

What I meant was that people getting into Karate should probably do so for the social/fitness/recreation and for want of a better word “holistic” aspects of the art as opposed to fighting. There are better arts for that.

I also encountered a guy called Jeffrey Balmer, who is apparently a Samurai and versed in many arts, and demonstrated some dark ki techniques including punching out candles from a distance and making people collapse with ki strikes. It was mostly guff.

Meddled with Karate and others but Judo was my sport, my 2p for any of the martial arts

Train properly it will teach you fantastic self discipline………transferable to many other things in life

Train properly you will find your ‘reaction times’ become alot faster again transferable.

Any kind of ‘full contact’martial art anfd you will find your pain threshold gets alot higher as some injuries (small to major) are inevitable

Getting to ‘black belt/dan grade’ or what ever its called in other styles is really only the start, someone mentioned it above and the best way I can explain it is up to black belt you are taught the principle and completion of a technique, once you reach dan grade or a certain level you start to adapt these techniques into how they can work for you, and if really good start to make a few of your own (this is really hard as most have probably been done at some point but gone out of fasion).

One other thing I have noticed in martial arts, you dont really get bullies, why? they dont last long as there is always someone better (this learned training with what I would consider some VERY hard (olympic level) athletes and not one of them could you call any kind of bully)

This is Karate. The Tiger.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYmS4tOjVvg

I really don’t want to try out the Colon Lunge from that video.

Nine years here as a young adult/teen here.

My son will be going to amateur boxing and Aikido.