Good point molgrips – recent PC laptop shopping shows this up. There's a lot of crap about.

Laptops are the main area I think apple win big in however, getting the _quality_ of a MBP in a pc laptop is hard/almost impossible. And again, except at the low end, the spec comparison would come out evenly, amongst high quality high end machines.

Now, quality is harder to measure of course, especially in a laptop. It includes sturdiness, battery, materials etc. But I'm prepared to argue the toss about this too 😉 (and also admit I'm wrong)

What's your laptop?

Here you go Molgrips, to cheer you up and show that I'm not such a bastard after all:

I'm not a techie or anything and a lot of what you lot are on about is a bit (a lot) over my head. All I know is, I replaced my PCs at work with Macs nearly 18 months ago and they have performed reliably (running XP on a virtual machine) with only one error in all that time (It was Windows related). When I had my PCs I was having to sort stuff out all the time and now I don't have to. To me, that makes them better but there again I could have had crappy pcs.

But then, what do I know I'm only the window cleaner!

Personally, there're two main reasons I'd never get a Mac:

* The OS is pants, hate it hate it hate it. Never quite works how I want it to.
* Fanbois wittering on about it, using words like "Windoze", claiming you can't spend more than 0.2s on a Windows machine without getting a virus, etc.

The keyboard's crap, too – but that would be easy enough to change.

Pity, really, as they are quite pretty (though not as exciting as some would make out), the hardware spec's decent, and the screen is indeed a thing to behold.

Man wants new computer, man gets new computer, man is happy and puts a thread up to tell others he has new computer.

Not really all that worth arguing about is it, he posts some lovely pictures up here and isn't telling me I need a mac so lets all just get back to work for a bit eh?

😛

This laptop is a HP HDX 18 which was admittedly on special offer at John Lewis, I think it was about £1100 new. It's a Core 2 Duo P8400 at 2.26GHz with 4Gb RAM, 2x250Gb HD, GeForce 9600M GT with 512Mb.. 18.4" 1920×1080 screen, and lovely speakers that can fill a hotel room nicely. And Windows 7, and a blu ray player.

I wanted it for entertainment whilst in a hotel room away from home. So movies, games etc etc. Also the possibility of Java development work so Eclipse, Databases, Websphere etc.

I did look at Macbooks when I was buying this – and I came quite close to getting a Macbook Air, but it wasn't enough machine although the smae price (again on discount). Yes I know that MacOS doesn't need as much horsepower as Windows, but I do use Java which needs the same power on either platform. Macbooks of decent spec were WAY WAY more expenisve than this, and I just couldn't afford it.

So I do think there is a big difference in spec vs price for most buyers.

Ta E&S, but I can't remember the last time I saw a BSOD. Seriously – it's been years and years.

The keyboard's crap

What don't you like about it? Genuinely interested, as I love the keyboards. Though that's partly a personal preference for short-travel flatter keyboards, so I guess you probably prefer big chunky keys?

Ok, thought it might be a big desktop replacement number – fair enough, to get the features you want in a MBP you'd need to pay for a lot of stuff you don't (slimness, battery etc.)

This is the principal advantage of PCs IMO – choice. You can get the machine with the features you value, and save money by not having those you don't.

I never argued otherwise – as I originally said, at the *high* end the specs are comparable. Lower down less so. And your machine has high spec yes, but the things that make laptops high-end and expensive are batteries and slim casings.

As Elfin said too about the mac pros, they are actually *cheap* for Xeon based workstations.

I need the start/home/backspace/delete etc. keys, a number pad is great, a proper return key… Anything less is a real pain! The Macs I've found myself using (all my family are mac users…) seem lacking here.

Ah ok.

Though you do have all those functions on a mac keyboards, and more fine grained keyboard text navigation besides (forward/back words, end/start of line, document etc). They are all key combos tho, which I guess most users don't know/need.

Coding etc. it did take me a while to adapt – I used those keys heavily too. But I now prefer this way, as although some stuff's a key combo I don't have to move my hands as much, which is faster for me.

Tormilais I've got the same pic but with the strapline
"GAY-TEST – if you like the one on the left…"

But yep IMO Mac is for the cash rich technically challenged clientele.

Personally I've just partitioned my old laptop onto Ubuntu, as blinkinflippinbloatware*@**!! Itunes was killing it.
I am discovering my inner penguin 😀 the kids can still use the Windows partition for surfing the net whilst I can play with GIMP and RhythmBox / GTKPod.

But yep IMO Mac is for the cash rich technically challenged clientele.

Calling me technically challenged, eh eh eh eh!! 😉

I'll admit that's part of the audience, but there're also very popular amongst the very technical (aka geeks/nerds). Cos using computers a lot you appreciate nice kit, and it's nice to have the GUI goodness and then be able to use gcc or set up a cross compiler toolchain when I need to. Best of both worlds.

Though you do have all those functions on a mac keyboards, and more fine grained keyboard text navigation besides (forward/back words, end/start of line, document etc). They are all key combos tho, which I guess most users don't know/need.

Coding etc. it did take me a while to adapt – I used those keys heavily too. But I now prefer this way, as although some stuff's a key combo I don't have to move my hands as much, which is faster for me.

See? Hidden! Bloody MacOS! 🙂

Right, gonna stop troll fighting/feeding now I think, leave you all to it…

Just remember this, you may be right, but do you know who's also right? Me.

mac vs PC yawn………

mac vs PC yawn………

Mahoosive +1 from me. They're not even that different anymore.

nearly as much mileage as a Rapha thread.

Anyhow, the PC of a similar spec is a similar price. Infact pretty much exactly.

I think I've made my point, *bows*.

can you find me a PC laptop with illuminated keyboard, firewire 800, a dvi port, SD card slot, (no expansion cards i want the ports there already) 4gb ram but can take up to 8, 2.5 or faster core2 duo processor, weighing 4.5lbs or less but with a really robust casing, 13-14inch screen no bigger, the ability to run a 24in monitor in extended desktop mode not just mirroring, the ability to use an individual profile for each screen not 1 profile used by both or a hardwear/firmware bodge, a gesture trackpad thingy like the one on my macbookpro, very long battery life,

the ability to run a 24in monitor in extended desktop mode not just mirroring, the ability to use an individual profile for each screen not 1 profile used by both or a hardwear/firmware bodge,

That's all standard in Windows 7

I'm not geeky enough to go into the other bits. There are plenty others on here though who will no doubt 🙂

and more fine grained keyboard text navigation besides (forward/back words, end/start of line, document etc)

Those are all there in Windows too.

MrSmith, all that stuff you described is pretty standard stuff on either platform! When you plug a monitor/tv into this Win7 laptop, a box pops up asking you which of those options you want, and off you go.

Biggest downer to this lappie though is the naff HP software it comes with. Very bloated and unreliable. A clean Windows install would be much better, but I do kind of like the extra buttons for DVD, music etc.

But yep IMO Mac is for the cash rich technically challenged clientele.

I've built PCs in the past and can fix most issues on a PC, I'd just rather not have to. My brother would win a geek fight with pretty much anyone and uses only Macs now.

Man wants new computer, man gets new computer, man is happy and puts a thread up to tell others he has new computer.

Indeed.

Who turned this into a Mac vs PC thread btw? Oh yeah it was molgrips. And you nearly bought a Macbook Air? now that is a posers computer if ever I saw one. 😛

Biggest downer to this lappie though is the naff HP software it comes with. Very bloated and unreliable. A clean Windows install would be much better

That's one of the most annoying things with PC laptops – you get a bloated install, but they often have special screen drivers included so it's not necessarily straightforward just to do a clean install with your own copy of the OS.

Who turned this into a Mac vs PC thread btw?

I do love a Mac vs PC thread, endless fun.

Hope you like your new machine, grum, I wouldn't get one (for the reasons I posted above) but then it's not my money!

I didn't start it! j_me reckoned it made you work faster…

MrSmith, all that stuff you described is pretty standard stuff on either platform! When you plug a monitor/tv into this Win7 laptop, a box pops up asking you which of those options you want, and off you go.

firewire 800 is standard on pc laptops? even powered firewire 400 was hard to find (it was often un-powered 4pin)
last time i looked a lot of laptops only did mirroring not extended desktop and didn't have DVI. so it looks like they may have finally caught up.

I've got HDMI out as well as VGA.

As for firewire – I seem to have it, probably 400 tho.

EDIT:

Even so, not all personal computers utilize the FireWire protocol. Apple includes FireWire on some of its computers, not including the ultra-portable MacBook Air and consumer-branded MacBook. It is included on some HP portables (2540p and 2740p) as well as most Sony VAIOs and Lenovo ThinkPads.

As for firewire – I seem to have it, probably 400 tho.

Unpowered too probably 😉

I do love a Mac vs PC thread, endless fun.

Emphasis on the endless. 3 pages FFS.

I'm happy to debate the pros and cons, but as long as it's sensible. Mindless fanboi-ism gets my goat.

just priced up a custom sony vaio to a similar spec as a macbookpro 13 it came out at £1700!
HP were a bit cheaper and about the same price as the mac.
neither had FW800 though and no way of telling if the 400 was powered or not.

not much use to me so i'll stick with a mac.

not much use to me so i'll stick with a mac.

It's not like we are trying to make you change!

I found PCs to be vastly cheaper for what I wanted when I was shopping, counter to your experience.

You're such a mindless PC 'fanboi' molgrips. 😛

I would be if I were trying to persuade you all that PCs were better!

It's not like we are trying to make you change!

I found PCs to be vastly cheaper for what I wanted when I was shopping, counter to your experience.

but it proves the point that for some things a mac is a good choice.
using a digital back shooting tethered is my example.
if i had an office full of people doing office stuff they would be using bargain basement pc's.

i did contemplate a P.C. workstation for photoshop/image processing use only but some of the software i use isn't available and the cost wasn't much different.

I would be if I were trying to persuade you all that PCs were better!

Well you were giving it a good go earlier…..

I was trying to persuade you that they were cheaper in many cases, and had more available software. Regardless of whether or not it was software you personally were interested in.

but it proves the point that for some things a mac is a good choice

Never argued otherwise.

Mindless fanboi-ism gets my goat.

But there hasn't been much, if any of that. Lots of nice reasoned points though…

The best thing about PCs? At a year old you can pick them up for absolute BOBBINS becasue of the hideous deppreciation!

For comparison of high end stuff … well I have chosen them quickly but the amount can be reduced I guess by another £300 if you choose the components properly. i.e. brand names etc.

All VAT including delivery.

1)Crucial RealSSD C300 256GB 2.5" SATA 6Gb/s Solid State Hard Drive (CTFDDAC256MAG-1G1)£487.61

2) Intel Core i7 960 3.2GHz (Bloomfield) (Socket LGA1366) – Retail Intel Core i7 960 3.2GHz (Bloomfield) (Socket LGA1366) – Retail £449.99

3)Gainward GeForce GTX 480 1536MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card Gainward GeForce GTX 480 1536MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card £366.59

3) Asus Rampage III Extreme Intel X58 (Socket 1366) DDR3 Motherboard £299.99

4)Iiyama ProLite B2712HDS 27" Widescreen LCD Monitor – Black £274.99

5) Corsair Dominator GT 6GB (3x2GB) DDR3 16000C8 2000MHz Triple Channel Kit (CMT6GX3M3A2000C8) £239.99

6)Corsair HX 1000W ATX Modular SLI Compliant Power Supply (CMPSU-1000HXUK) £184.99

7) Microsoft Windows 7 Professional – Retail (Full Version)(FQC-00133) £163.99

8. (water cool) Corsair Hydro H70 High Performance CPU Cooler (Socket LGA775/LGA1156/LGA1366/AM2/AM3)£86.99

9) Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 1TB SATA-II 32MB Cache – OEM (ST31000528AS)£52.99

10) Antec 300 Three Hundred Ultimate Gaming Case – Black £46.99

11) Samsung SH-B083L/RSBP 8x BluRay ROM / 16x DVD±RW Drive – Black (Retail) £43.99

Total : £2,722.72

Labour: 1 to 2 hours.

With near to the above spec = iMac £2,448.99 incl. VAT If iMac has the above specs it will cost more.

At a year old you can pick them up for absolute BOBBINS becasue of the hideous deppreciation!

I get offered/given stuff free. I mostly turn it down, 'cos I simply have no need for it. PC stuff is obsolete very quickly. Worth pulling out stuff lie RAM from older machines though, 'cos there's always some geek wanting some for a 'retro build'…

Such a waste really. At least Macs tend to carry on until they die.

4)Iiyama ProLite B2712HDS 27" Widescreen LCD Monitor – Black £274.99

As I said earlier, that's nowhere near as good as an iMac's screen, which is an LED monitor. The equivalent would probably be nearer £1000. Adding £725.01 to your price, roughly!

Hmm, the iMac seems better value all the time!

OOOOOOHHHHHH!

I'd sell Molgrips' kidneys for that!