Grum – and?

Just saying you can play games on it pretty well if you want to (which I don't really). 🙂

Games? Buy an X-Box/Playstation, innit? 🙄

TBH, there's a surprising amount of decent games for Macs; have a root around eBay or Amazon, and you can pick up titles for £10 or less. When you're bored with them, flog 'em on again. I've never understood this 'must have the latest games' stuff.

molgrips – Member
Holy cow. Just looked – 27" Iiyama LCD monitor = £250 on scan.co.uk!

That is cheap.

Yeah, but what are the specs?

Some games.. not many I don't think.

So let me get this straight – I need an expensive Mac, AND a Playstation, to do the same things that my cheaper PC can do.

Right 🙂

Jamie – lower res than the mac one I think, 1920×1080, 2ms, don't recall the rest. Just surprised that a monitor that big is that cheap 🙂

Grum, what is buying a top of the line iMac, then telling everyone on a bike forum, other than conspicuous consumption?

Grum, what is buying a top of the line iMac, then telling everyone on a bike forum, other than conspicuous consumption?

He did not pay top of the line prices tho so does that still count?

Grum, what is buying a top of the line iMac, then telling everyone on a bike forum, other than conspicuous consumption?

It's not the top of the line one – I could have got the i7 processor upgrade 😉

How is it any different to people going 'look at my new bike'? It cost a lot less than most of the bikes people seem to ride on here. I will also be using it for work so it's not just a toy.

get the full keyboard not that little spaz one as pictured.

That's one of the best keyboards made by anyone.

The full keyboard just gets you a numpad and takes up more space on your desk. Which I guess is a worthwhile tradeoff if you're somesort of hardcore excell jockey, dribbling over the thought of 27" of spreadsheet….

So let me get this straight – I need an expensive Mac, AND a Playstation, to do the same things that my cheaper PC can do.

No, you don't. As I've explained. If you spend all your time playing games, then get an X-Box or PS. Simple. Most of us don't want /have the time to. There are plenty of titles for the Mac if, like me you just want a quick play now and then. I have several, and I'm not even that into games.

So you're saying that the Mac should be good enough for what I want, but if I do want to play lots of games and have the amazing experience of a Mac, I need to spend even more money on two appliances.

It sounds almost as if you're saying that a Mac is not as capable as a PC 🙂

Out of interest, for the mac-hater, PCs are cheaper brigade, are they really, except at the low end?

I'm a mac person, currently on a hackintosh built myself (lower end, built to a budget and focus on quiet + reliable, there is a price advantage there), so I've good knowledge in both camps.

Can you spec as good as a top end imac for less? I've tried, but can't really… (you can get slightly better maybe, but not really much).
So, what I want is:
Decent case – needs to be quiet,
Decent PSU,
quiet cooler, not stock intel.
i7 at 3gig-ish
SSD, 256gb, 1gig HD
5770 or better
8 gig ram
2560×1440 or better IPS display

You've got 2.2k of budget to play with…

Slightly a troll, but genuinely interested…. I reckon I can spec similar but with a decent OC on the cpu, and there'd be a faster SSD but not enough to make the difference.

I personally don't get the idea of congratulating everyone on their purchases, but I can see that it is a bike forum and some people are interested in seeing what other people have, and there is some variation in how bikes are put together. Two people could come up with very different types of bike with the same frame, so something novel can be created.

You can see this in the threads that generate a bit of interest – the first person on here to get a new model, or an unusual build. We don't see huge numbers of "Here's my new Stumpjumper" threads, even though they're probably pretty common bikes.

To me, posting this is about as relevant as posting about your new fancy pair of shoes, your new boiler or your new dinner service. It's an off the shelf item, which I can see any time I want.

Well I suppose you could always play your games in Windoze via a Virtual Machine program such as VMWare.

See, you can do things like that on a Mac.

Can you run OSX on your PC?

Ok wait, an imac's a 5750 so there'll probably be a slight win for the PC there, but it's not all that clear cut.

(admittedly I can get HE contract prices, which is where the 2.2 comes in, plus the 3yr warranty which puts it in favour of the mac, but still)

Elfinsafety – yes I run osx on a PC here 😉 I am a lot more techy than most though (probably even by STW IT manager standards 😉 ).

I also run win 7 on my macs on occasion, the world is upside down!

How many cores is that CPU?

BTW I am not a Mac hater, I'm a fanboi hater (hence the deliberate trolling above 🙂 ). I just love the way that the fanatics dismiss the stuff that Macs can't do by saying 'well it's fine for ME' (as if you were the only person that mattered) or 'well whoever would want to do THAT?' (me, as it happens, just because you don't see it as important doesn't mean no-one else does).

Macs – nice, flash, well made, nice OS, expensive.
PCs – less nice, less flash, variably made, cheaper and loads more software.

That's about. There's a lot of software around for Macs, but not as much as a PC. Don't start talking about the relative quality or usefulness of the software – it's just a fact that there's more software and games for PC.

IA's question about spec is the most useful one here!

directed at me? 4 core i7 870, so a newer 95w one if you want to properly compare. I'll let you off with higher power in the PC tho 😉

Also FWIW I realise most don't need or have the high end kit. I'd not claim macs were cheaper at the low end, but similarly I'd not say they weren't worthwhile. There are advantages beyond the hardware specs etc.

But if they matter to you depends on who you are and what you do with your computer. Arguing about this stuff is like trying to persuade someone that only rigid 29er on-ones should be ridden and all other bikes are overpriced/pointless or whatever.

Don't start talking about the relative quality or usefulness of the software

Why not? That's a crucial feature for me! The free stuff bundled with Macs pisses over anything similar for the PC. For video editing, Final Cut Pro is the dogs. Etc.

it's just a fact that there's more really bad, buggy and pointless software and games for PC

😉

Oh, and as for the OS; Snow Leopard is way, way above anything else in terms of ease of use. So much more pleasant an experience. That's how to do an OS properly. That's why I'm happy to spend extra on a Mac.

I have a PC, it's a fairly decent machine, except for the fact it runs Windoze. Whenever I turn it on these days, an increasing number of 'FAIL' messages come up on the screen. It's ****. I just can't be bothered sorting it all out, 'cos I don't need to on my Macs.

just love the way that the fanatics dismiss the stuff that Macs can't do by saying 'well it's fine for ME'

Ah, but this is the perfect way to dismiss that argument you see. It's basically saying "my computer's right for me so I don't give a damn what yours does". Which is valid. However if it's borne from ignorance it's perhaps less so.

FWIW I use macs as they do stuff PCs can't* do. And I do think macs are better.

Anyone want to argue with me, bring it! 😉

*using the definition of "can't" that appears to be common here. Which is they can do it, but not as good in some way.

Don't start talking about the relative quality or usefulness of the software

Yeah, what would be the point in that eh? 😕 Quantity over quality eh?

I just love the way that the fanatics dismiss the stuff that Macs can't do by saying 'well it's fine for ME' (as if you were the only person that mattered)

Well when it comes to me buying a computer for my needs then I am the only person that matters. And what is it that Macs can't do exactly?

i7 CPU – £210
Mobo – £80
GFX – £120
RAM – £160 ish
256Gb SSD – £420 😯
1Tb HD – £50 😯 for the opposite reason!
Monitor – £900
Case + gubbins £100
PSU – £90

£2130

And what is it that Macs can't do exactly?

Play lots of games!

Look, I'm not trying to tell you that PCs are better. However you lot really do seem to be trying to tell me that Macs are much better, I NEED a Mac, and I'm stupid for having bought a PC. This is why I get pissed off, and why I am deliberately winding you up!

Now give over!

If you are trying to say that Macs are better FOR YOU SPECIFICALLY, then fine, why should I care about that? If you are trying to say that Macs are better overall for everyone, then you can't just dismiss the objective arguments as being unimportant to you personally.

molgrips, doing well there, about the same as me – but you need to up the price a bit.

As I said quiet was a priority, and if you're going PC you may aswell OC, so about +£60 for decent CPU cooling.

Sounds like a cheap mobo, would want something decent s1366 based for upgradability, if going pc. So add £100 there. But ok, I didn't say that so I'll let you off that one 😉

I'd also spend more on a PSU for reliability/noise reasons. Maybe another £50.

Anyhow, the PC of a similar spec is a similar price. Infact pretty much exactly.

I think I've made my point, *bows*.

Molgrips, you forgot:

Build time @ £X per hour
OS
Video Editing Software
Music creation software
DVD Authoring software
Web Design software
Photo organising/editing software
Assorted other utility software
Testing/optimisation time

Etc.

Look, I'm not trying to tell you that PCs are better. However you lot really do seem to be trying to tell me that Macs are much better, I NEED a Mac, and I'm stupid for having bought a PC. This is why I get pissed off, and why I am deliberately winding you up!

See this pisses me off too, but then I don't think my arguments have ever been bothering you… I'm almost arguing against these folk too, by taking their side more rationally…

Elfin – it's ok him missing that stuff out – I was working a discount into my 2.2k number.

The pro PC argument is that the spec could be adjusted depending on priorities. E.g. ditch the big SSD and get a killer gfx card, for example.

Play lots of games!

Correct me if I'm wrong but can't Macs play any games a PC can via Boot Camp?

you lot really do seem to be trying to tell me that Macs are much better, I NEED a Mac, and I'm stupid for having bought a PC.

😆 Where did I say that? Sounds like you've got a bit of a complex about it tbh. 😀

Molgrips, calm down. No-one's telling you you have to buy a Mac, indeed you sound a little defensive. Almost as though you regret not buying a Mac. 😉

I have a couple of Vista machines and a MBP running SL. TBH, Windows works for me and without it I couldn't do my job. I only use a few apps on my MBP and sure enough there are a few nice features about SL, but IMO it is not better than Vista or W7. One particular real-world PITA is the inability to drag all sides/corners of a window – WTF will Mr Jobs not allow me to do that when Mr Gates gave us this years ago?

As for stability, I consider myself pretty IT savvy so my machines are all in very good order. Fair enough, there were compliance issues with Vista 2-3 years ago but I've never had a problem. I might get the odd crash/error/bug report but my MBP has far less to contend with and has crashed twice without reason in three months.

indeed you sound a little defensive.

It's his default mode 8)

Correct me if I'm wrong but can't Macs play any games a PC can via Boot Camp?

Yes, but they're not as good at is as you can spec a similarly priced PC. Mostly cos of the GPU/screen size imbalance for 3D work. The problem is to drive modern games at 2560×1440 you need a very powerful GPU. So the iMac's screen works against itself here. If you were building for games you'd have a lower res screen and more powerful GPU – a better balance.

Pfft, disappointed in the lack or reasoned argument from both sides petering out here…. having to argue both sides myself! Damn mac zealots! 😉

Elfin – f*k off.

You think anyone actually BUYS that kind of software? It comes free from every angle.

Anyway, here's a final thought. I must admit I have never seen anyone trying to argue that PCs are actually better than Macs. It always seems to be Mac owners going on and on and on justifying their Macs and how utterly wonderful they are, and PCs owners saying that PCs are cheaper, play more games (both true) and wishing Mac fanbois would FOAD.

I know which camp I prefer.

As for the computers..

they

are

just

friggin

computers

Sorry

IA; a few years ago, I was buying a Mac Pro anyway, but thought I'd have look at what a similar specced PC would be. Came to about a grand more, for the same spec. And that's without the software.

The build quality of this thing is fantastic. All I can hear is the slightest whisper from the fans, which are top quality units. Nothing has failed in nearly 4 years of daily use. Great value for money imo.

deliberately winding you up!

It started like that but now your the annoyed one!!

Elfin – f*k off.

Now now…

😀

Just looked at a Macbook equivalent to the laptop I am on now. £1900! I paid £900 for this a year ago. The Macbook does have a much better battery though.

Go on, you know you want to…

Resistance is Futile. You will be Assimilated.

All I can hear is the slightest whisper from the fans, which are top quality units. Nothing has failed in nearly 4 years of daily use

Not really remarkable.

It does occur to me though that the Mac market does not contain loads of dross, unlike the PC market. So the unaware (ie most people) cannot inadvertently buy a shit Mac, whereas they can and usually do with PCs.