I love threads like this
until May this year i hadn’t ridden a bike since the mid nineties, and probably hadn’t ridden anything gnarly ever.. bit of bmxing in early nineties in a local woods.. that’s it
Ended up on a Vitus Nucleus and rinsing my local blue trail.. lusting for more..
the bike wasn’t right for me.. didnt feel right.. kept tweaking and upgrading and looking at FS bikes.. and the budget of which started at £1200 and went up and up and up
And then i thought why? what will a FS do for me? make things easier? make things faster?
and what will that do? make things less exciting? make my crashes hurt more?
So i reigned it in, what if i built an epic hardtail out of the parts i had collected during my Nucleus upgrade.. plus a few extras
So i built up a DMR trailstar, with a 170mm MRP fork, sitting around 64 degrees HA (unloaded).
Forks set soft but ramping up rapidly with lots of LSC.
The bike feels pretty dam comfy to ride.. and surprised me on my first outing.. i could ride sections seated that i was usually out of the seat on.
I could just hit stuff much harder with a little rear weight transfer and let the bike just ride through it.

I haven’t ridden a FS.. if i don’t ride one i won’t miss one right?
Im not lagging behind the guys i ride with massively on the downs..so if im slower it doesnt matter so much…
What i have done is saved myself massive amounts of money..and got myself a bike which feels pretty much as high (as reasonable without diminishing returns) spec as possible to build.. .it also shouldnt be possible to “date”.. i dont have to worry about exotic materials breaking or shattering etc…
yes, its heavy (somewhere around 14kg on innacurate scales) but jesus is it fun

I haven’t ridden a FS.. if i don’t ride one i won’t miss one right?

That’s me! TBH I can’t afford the funds for an FS currently. My mate has offered me a go on his a few times. I don’t want to ride it incase I realise I relly need one. Love my hardtail to bits!

I’m lucky enough to have a HT and and FS. After a fast, dry summer getting back on board the HT as the ground softens always forcibly reminds me that whilst they are both bikes, riding techniques are different. The hard tail always highlights that I have become accustomed to sitting and spinning for traction, and standing with straight legs because, well, on an FS you can!

It takes a ride or two to remember to use ones knees as sprung hinges and to spend alot more time off the saddle of spending less time in contact.

I find the the benefits of an FS over a HT in the wet season on my trails are much negated so I’d rather go for the feedback.

The geometry may look extreme when it’s standing still

Just looks like a sorted bike to me, but then, I have form…

I do want a ride on your Pole, it looks so long and fun…

I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard that. Each of them think it’s original too!

Let’s be honest, if we could we would all have a variety of bikes for different rides/conditions.

I do have a rigid fatty, XC hardtail and have finally invested in a FS. Nothing flash only Go Outdoors Bossnut it just meant clearing some crap out of the shed to fit it in… 😊

If anyone (who hasn’t ridden offroad before) asks me what bike to buy, I always say to get a decent HT rather than a FS.
You ‘learn’ to ride on a HT which makes a FS even better.
That’s what I found anyway after riding for 10 years, including a Chamonix trip, on a HT.
At my age I find a FS MUCH more comfy though!

The closest i’ve had/tried is my Parkwood, even with decent forks and tyres i’m still night and day quicker on the T-130.

Then you’re letting the bike do the work instead of improving your technique.
If you stuck with the hardtail and learnt how to shift your bodyweight around, use your legs and arms more, pick better lines, let off the brakes and float over the top of roots etc until your as fast as you were originally on your FS, then when you go back to the FS you will be quicker again.

It think a lot of us have the same thought.

I use my fatbike quite a lot and if it’s a good ride I want a hard tail. Otherwise I remember the pain and want a FS.

Then you’re letting the bike do the work instead of improving your technique.
If you stuck with the hardtail and learnt how to shift your bodyweight around, use your legs and arms more, pick better lines, let off the brakes and float over the top of roots etc until your as fast as you were originally on your FS, then when you go back to the FS you will be quicker again.

LOL you’ve never met me, never seen me ride, don’t know what i can or can’t do on a bike, yet you’ve analaysed me in depth from 1 post.

If HTs were quicker/better we’d see them in Enduro, XC racing, etc… As it is, we don’t.

I notice two big things on my hardtail – how it is VERY hard when seated pedalling over any sort of bumps. And how remarkably smooth it is as soon as I stand up and let my legs be the rear suspension!

I enjoyed it so much on the ridiculously rocky trails of Mallorca during this summer’s family holiday that I’m thinking of taking it on our next Wales uplifty / trail centre trip, instead of my e-monster truck.

Interesting to hear all your views and stories. I think I’m going to stick with the HT for a few more weeks and give it a good go before I make any final decisions. After being on FS for so many years then it’s bound to be completely different.

I understand about having to ride differently which is quite obvious really I suppose, so I’ll have to adapt my riding style over the next few weeks. A lot more unweighting and shifting of weight to try and get the most out of it. However, if it doesn’t click then I’ll look at getting the HT up for sale. No point sticking with something if it’s not working.

Thanks everyone.
JB

I do want a ride on your Pole, it looks so long and fun…

Aaaaaaaand we’re back 😂

There’s a prevailing theme in these threads that to be having ‘fun’ you also have be ‘fast’ and ‘efficient’; it’s not a job, it’s supposed to be something you enjoy doing, you know, for fun!

Stop measuring things, go and ride your bike(s).

“If HTs were quicker/better we’d see them in Enduro, XC racing, etc… As it is, we don’t.”

Yes we do. Unless you’re riding a WC DH track a good hardtail ridden properly will be only a tiny amount slower than a good full-sus under the same rider. At the pointy end of racing that’s too big a difference for the serious amateurs or pros to race on hardtails (except on some 4X and XC tracks), but in the normal world there’s not much in it.

but in the normal world there’s not much in it.

My personal experience would massively disagree. For example my PR/KOM on a descent in France is 4mins 20 on my T-130. 3 days later i got 6mins 03 on the Parkwood. I was trying on both.

So whilst YOU may experience not much difference, some people clearly do.

Did you have fun both times?

Did you have fun both times?

Not so much on the 2nd one… Hence why i never ride the HT on trails 🙂

“Not so much on the 2nd one… Hence why i never ride the HT on trails 🙂”

I think that’s the crux. If you’re not enjoying your hardtail on a trail then the chance you’re riding it well is pretty tiny.

If you’re not enjoying your hardtail on a trail then the chance you’re riding it well is pretty tiny.

LOL i love this place… it’s hysterical. Sheesh.

Not so much on the 2nd one… Hence why i never ride the HT on trails 🙂

Furry muff!

I think that’s the crux. If you’re not enjoying your hardtail on a trail then the chance you’re riding it well is pretty tiny.

I get what Chief means here, but the way he’s put it is easy to get offended by, especially if you have a fragile ego.

Fact is to ride a HT well on a rough trail you do need to know what you’re doing to smooth it out, more so than on an FS. If you don’t have the skills or experience to do this, it’s going to be a slow, rough old ride and thus not so enjoyable.

It’s not a personal slight to identify this, and it’s not such a stretch to imagine FS only riders getting on a HT a couple of times and going ‘yuck!’ because they’ve never developed the skillset.

I’m honestly not getting offended… 🙂

Amused… 100%

FWIW i did a decade on HTs, countless miles, trails, woods and even a number of trail centres… Maybe for a decade i was riding all wrong and don’t know what i’m doing 🙂

Sorry weeksy, I wasn’t addressing you directly, just making a generalised comment.

Although I did just see Your strava KOM comments. I’m slower on my hardtail for sure, but my data mostly shows about a 10% difference, not a 35% difference. Depends on terrain of course.

It’s all good matey 🙂 It’s a forum, that’s all 🙂

I worked my way from rigid local trails up to long travel FS on alpine descents. After a couple of years of that I found I just wasn’t going out in the UK anymore, all the trails were either incredibly tame or being made into BMX tracks with all the doubles, and boardwalk boredom.

I stopped mtbing altogether.

Took me nearly a decade to try again, I brought out my FS, hit some local trails, felt deflated. Everything was just too boring and I was not fit enough to push the FS quickly anymore.

So I built up a hardtail using an old used steel frame and loved it. So I sank some cash into a carbon 456 frame and parts and it’s so nice to ride I get excited every time for every local ride. Feeling the trail, using my body, scaring myself on stuff id have flown over on the long travel bike. All so much better now, in my situation at least.

A couple of years ago I got my last hardtail, one of the very first Pipedream Moxies available. It had a very cheap build kit, I never got along with the Fox 34 and ended up selling it to a relative shortly after in order to finance a FS enduro bike. Also my skills were a far cry from what they are now, so I guess I never pushed the Moxie to it’s potential.

Fast forward to today and I now have a 160/155mm travel FS (Stumpy Evo) which I love, it’s crazy fast and composed everywhere as it is comfortable, but I sometimes get a little annoyed with all the cleaning and care taking.
I wonder how would the Moxie be with a better build, 160mm Fox 36 included combined with my current skillset and the trails I ride now. Plus expanded bikepacking capabilities from the HT frame.
My relative is now selling the bike (I’m actually managing some of the ads) and he’s willing to let me have the frame back for a very good value.

So now I’m fighting this urge to build the ultimate aggro hardtail, but still considering the FS would have to go

You’ll get used to it and stand a lot more and it’ll be excellent fun at times.
Pace make quite a stiff frame dont they? Thing of beauty a nice simple hardtail for sure. And a lot easier to clean and maintain.
Good for Winter?
Well, lovely (if you stand up so legs are working as suspension, which I do anyway. Rarely is my dropper extended) but how about the stealth roots hidden under those wet leaves?
FS just simply has more grip. Yeah it’s comfortable, but that’s not the important thing IMO. Grip on loose and slippy terrain and particularly on climbs is hard to give up for 10 mins less cleaning and an occasional pivot service.
Reading this, you can see I’ve decided. I’m sticking with the Geometron G1 as an only bike.
I hope you enjoy the hardtail. Better find room to keep the FS though.

The last FS I had was probably 20 odd years ago, HT / CX only since. I would have appreciated a big FS in Samoens last year, and I’d really like to try out Ninos FS Scott or a high end Cannondale around my local trails – but that’ll never be a reality!!!

You adapt your riding to your bike and trails, what works for one won’t another. All should be well unless you decide to ride a CX bike on a black run or a DH bike at a CX race.

I guess I may borrow the bike for a test ride this weekend, just to see how it feels on a test loop.
I genuinely can’t remember how it is to ride a hardtail, as dumb as this sounds. Even worse that I now ride flat pedals full time, curious to see if my feet will stay in place

I only ride for fun and after trying full suspension twice I’ve always gone back to hardtails. I just love them. Everyone is different though so do whatever is best for you. I’m down to one bike at the moment and it’s a rigid. Really miss having a nice hardtail and regret selling my Stif Morf 😕

Hardtail only for me since 2006. The trails I ride most often are fun, and bigger stuff presents a challenge. This year I made my first trips to real mountains in Alps and Pyrenees, which have been great. I actually prefer the slower technical stuff which is where a hardtail has less of a disadvantage. It’s only when trail are both fast and very bumpy trails that I have to consciously slow down compared to others. If I ride big mountains more often then a FS might become a more attractive proposition.

I’m weird, i kinda like the physical input required to ride a hardtail, in the same way i like riding a singlespeed, they require more concentration and rider input. I’ll often follow someone on a trail with huge spread of gears and a full sus and they are just sat there spinning along, rarely getting out of the saddle. Whereas on hardtail/ singlespeed, you are having to look more carefully at the trail coming up, and you have to be out of the saddle and trying to keep momentum.

Its not better riding, its just different and i like the physicality of it.

Ive always rode both. If I’m out in the peaks / lakes i always grab the FS. If we are going to a trail centre then its always the HT.

Both different. Both good.