Viewing 30 posts - 1 through 30 (of 30 total)
  • Jones(ish) bar set up
  • JonEdwards
    Member

    After my tinker around last week with flared drops (see separate thread) I was sufficiently impressed with the wrist position offered by drops to order a pair of the rip-off Jones bars from PX to try. (I have some sympathy for JJ, but not a lot given how ridiculous UK prices for the proper ones are). Set them up rotated down by 10-15° as seems to be the usual advice.

    Took ’em for a ride this morning and a couple of issues. Firstly – way too close to me. I’m coming from 710mm flat bars on a 70mm stem. Reckon I need to go to a 90 or 100mm to get the grips in roughly the right place. Does that sound believable? Advice on the web seems a bit mixed about changing stem length, but I’m way too cramped both climbing and descending.

    Secondly, I seem to have all my weight on the outside edge of my palms, right on *that* ulnar nerve spot, rather than onto the web of my thumbs as I’d expect. This is not feeling at all clever and not something I’d want to put up with long distance. I’ll have to rotate them a LONG way down to change that (think 45°ish).The bars have the ride quality of an RSJ which won’t be helping either, but that’s very much “you get what you pays for” and for the price, I can live with it.

    Ideas?

    Thanks…

    whitestone
    Member

    Stem length is supposedly the same as for flats but I prefer about 20mm more. Also the bars should be a bit higher than you might think, at or just below saddle height.

    The riding position with Jones (and rip-off) bars is different to flats and risers. With your arms hanging by your sides with elbows close to your body lift your hands upwards until your elbows are at 90degs, just let your hands rotate naturally. You’ll find that your hands move outwards slightly and are angled pretty much in line with the sweep of the Jones bars.

    So rather than being in the usual ready/attack position with elbows up and out and with your forearms pointing down, your elbows should be a few cm out from the side of your body and your forearms closer to horizontal.

    I assume you’ve seen this video, look at his position at about 4:20 into it.

    steezysix
    Member

    Where do you have your shifters/brakes? When I used mine the first time I mounted them towards the end of the bar like on a normal flat bar, they felt awful! Then I moved them closer to the join, like in the video above, much better. I didn’t change my stem. Also, the right angle is a very personal thing, I would just keep making small adjustments until they feel good. Get yourself some long soft grips, I bought some foam butterfly bar grips and cut them to the right length, no more hand pain on long rides for me!

    Premier Icon brant
    Subscriber

    Yeah, even with the forward wiggle, the position of the grips relative to the fork steerer centre (quite an easy dimension to eyeball) means that I’m running an 100mm on one of my bikes.

    JonEdwards
    Member

    Thanks all.

    My gravel biking is more “mountain biking from the ’90s” than “road biking with bigger tyres”, so I still want to be able to rip easyish singletrack and I’ve always preferred being over the bike rather than in it, plus the slightly limited gearing at the mo means I need to be able to attack climbs rather than sit and spin; so I’m not sure how well raising the bars will suit me. The 100mm stem I have easy access to has a bit of rise in it, so I’ll see how that feels. Currently trying to corner elbows-in feels quite unintuitive, but if I can escape (more) buggered wrists, it might be worth the relearning.

    Grips are currently a bodged up arrangement of a couple of identical sets of cut down lock-ons. Brakes are up at the weld.

    Yeah, even with the forward wiggle, the position of the grips relative to the fork steerer centre (quite an easy dimension to eyeball) means that I’m running an 100mm on one of my bikes.

    Exactly what I’ve been thinking.

    Premier Icon thenorthwind
    Subscriber

    Hmmm… I tried a pair of Jones Loops on my Longitude recently, and currently trying some Surly Molokos. My thinking at the moment is that they’re not really working (the Molokos in particular gave me some pretty bad hand pain over two days of riding) because the stem is too long given that the top tube is fairly long and the bars are designed for a more upright position. Am I talking b*llocks?

    whitestone
    Member

    Because they are so different rather than just a bit of a tweak to standard bars there is quite a bit of relearning involved. I’m now at the opposite point: flat/riser bars just feel so restrictive especially on longer rides.

    Quite often climbing I’ll have my hands at the weld – sort of a similar position to being on the hoods on a road/gravel set of drop bars.

    @thenorthwind – I’ve not tried Molokos but I’ve also got a set of Velo Orange Crazy Bars which are the third main set of bars with a 45deg sweep. I had these on my Solaris last summer for the French Divide and was fine, we’re talking 200km+ days here. I’d say none of them suit a “slammed stem” style setup. The first set of Jones bars I got I fitted to my fat bike. I’d bought the bike second hand as a rolling frame and the previous owner is a bit shorter than me so the steerer was cut fairly low. As a result I was getting numb hands despite the bars being the carbon fibre version (don’t worry, bought S/H but unused, I’m not that rich).

    When Jones came out with the SG Riser version I fitted a set of those and problem solved. So I’d say that you want the bars up around saddle height to get the most out of them. Uber-geek mode! I’ve just put the spirit level on both of my setups and with the rear tilt of the bars I’d say the bar ends are 50-60mm below saddle height. On the Spearfish the stem clamp is level with the saddle.

    DrP
    Member

    Hmmm… I got a pair of the PX bars, and stuck them on the singlespeed…

    At first I hated them, then I really liked them…now i’m not so sure…

    I used a 90mm stem with the JJ bars – 70mm with flat carbons.

    On the flat, for cruising and such, the forward loop of the JJ bar is really comfy (I imagined myself on that Lotus TT bike!). But… for climbing they are simply rubbish… Particularly on a SS.
    I tried holding the grips, and they felt too far back. I tried on the weld, and it felt too narrow to honk on’….

    Hmm… I’ve stuck flats back on now as I’ve Big Dog in a few weeks and want the bike “moar lighter” and faster… But might stick the JJs back on again.

    Oh, also, you need LOADS of brake cable!

    DrP

    ton
    Member

    used Jones bars for a fair few years, loved em. now as arthritis takes over, my wrists are fused, and I can no longer use them.
    bought some of the copies to try again. used for 1 tour and sold on, they hurt like hell.
    I ran them flat when I used jones bars. that worked for me.

    whitestone
    Member

    You sold them to me Ton! Well, my wife, we put them on her Stooge and fitted them out on Sunday 😎

    Premier Icon thenorthwind
    Subscriber

    I was thinking more about horizontal distance than height (though I realise both affect hand position). The Jones Spaceframe is much shorter in the top tube than something like the Longitude (both the Spearfish and the Solaris are a little shorter for the same seattube, but still quite a bit longer than the Jones). My thinking was that I need to move them back to get the right position as a result, and the only way to do that is a shorter stem – it’ll affect handling, but could be fun 😉

    I’ll think about the vertical position as well though. Might even get the spirit level out!

    90mm stem for me, hand position has always felt natural to me, bike is a Spaceframe though

    Premier Icon scotroutes
    Subscriber

    With controls up near the weld,I find my hands in exactly the same position (albeit at a different angle) as with my “flat” bars.

    It’s worth experimenting with the angle of the bars too.I suspect I have mine at a bit more than 15 deg off horizontal.

    Edit: just measured them – 20 degrees.

    dovebiker
    Member

    I run mine such that my wrists are perpendicular to the fork steerer axis – means my hands are a little further back, but for long-distance / multi-day rides it keeps me in a relaxed, centred position on the bike. I also run mine angled about 10 degrees downwards. I had no problem adapting to the position and I have no problem on twisty / steep descents

    JonEdwards
    Member

    Hmmm… I got a pair of the PX bars, and stuck them on the singlespeed…

    At first I hated them, then I really liked them…now i’m not so sure…

    I used a 90mm stem with the JJ bars – 70mm with flat carbons.

    On the flat, for cruising and such, the forward loop of the JJ bar is really comfy (I imagined myself on that Lotus TT bike!). But… for climbing they are simply rubbish… Particularly on a SS.
    I tried holding the grips, and they felt too far back. I tried on the weld, and it felt too narrow to honk on’

    This is pretty much where I am at the mo (although with gears). The “thumbs hooked in the loop” position feels quite natural for cruising, except then my fingers are holding the brake master cylinder. On the grips, both sat and standing my hands are too close to my knees – to have a normal balance of weight on my feet its hard work for arms and shoulders, and as you say honking doesn’t really work. That said my bar position is much lower than Whitestones – stem is ~ 50mm below the saddle, so the bar ends are going to be in the 75mm – 100mm range.

    I run mine such that my wrists are perpendicular to the fork steerer axis

    Me too currently, which would be fine if I had the TT length of a modern LLS bike, but its not – its over 13 years old!

    Will try the longer stem and see where I get to. (when it stops tipping it down!)

    Just bought some On One Geoffs and some foam grip + bar tape. These are to hopefully replace relatively narrow carbon flat bars + Ergon grips/bar ends on a 110mm stem. If I hate the loop bars I’ll fit wider flats + refit Ergon bar ends with a shorter stem. (Longitude frame, mostly utility/bikepacking/touring)

    Recabling today all being well, so will report back after testing/experimentation.

    Premier Icon thenorthwind
    Subscriber

    Interested to know how you get on Malvern Rider!

    whitestone
    Member

    Look at side shots of complete Jones bikes – the stem and bars are level with or above the saddle. Simply replacing your normal bars with the Jones is unlikely to work if you’ve a slammed stem (or a bike with a short stack height), you have to lift the front end up.

    From about five minutes in this video where he rides it around you can see that his elbows are further back and down towards the sides of his body than most would consider “normal”, apart from the various endos there’s little of the flat bar “chicken wing” position.

    Premier Icon benp1
    Subscriber

    When I’ve ridden a Jones, the biggest size plus version, not the spaceframe, it’s very surprisingly how short it feels for such a short bike. It’s much more upright than you would expect

    DrP
    Member

    Ooh… now my issue may be sorted… have you seen the alp kit love mud bars??

    Pretty much a flat bar (with some sweep) and the loop ADDED to the front.
    I mean, they look gash, but would fix my issue of the grips/brakes being too far back for climbing…

    £30 and i’ve Taken a punt…
    I’ll still leave the carbons on for racing etc, but i’m Keen to get back into long distance and bikepacking, and the loop/forward position is actually quite nice.

    Looks gash though…. !

    DrP

    Premier Icon thenorthwind
    Subscriber

    I see your point. I’ve got quite a few spacers under my stem so getting the bars any higher with this frame is going to be tricky (not saying that makes it right). You can’t see the spacers in the photo below because they’re behind the stem cell. Looks like the stem is slightly below the saddle though.

    P5230397<script async src=”//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js” charset=”utf-8″></script>

    Jones doesn’t quote a stack height so it’s hard to compare.

    Watching him ride around in that video, it strikes me that the saddle is quite low – look at the bend of his knees – whereas in the picture above, I have the saddle quite high for low-tech long distance.

    whitestone
    Member

    Looking at the video again it looks like he’s got the saddle at various heights in the shots where he’s riding around the car park. At around 9mins his leg is at pretty much full extension for example.

    Here’s my Spearfish setup:

    And my Puffin:

    All unfashionably high!

    Premier Icon thenorthwind
    Subscriber

    So he does… I just flicked through before. When he gets off after riding with the saddle a bit higher, you get a good view of the height relative to the bars:

    Jones bar height

    <script async src=”//s.imgur.com/min/embed.js” charset=”utf-8″></script>

    john_l
    Member

    Jeff’s advice to me was to start with grips at the same height as the saddle and go from there with “normal” stem length.

    FWIW I’m using an 80mm stem, but that’s on a Jones. Never been able to get as comfortable with them on other frames.

    From narrow flats and Ergons w/110mm stem to Geoffs with 90mm and foam grip.

    Now feels like I’m steering a long boat with a forward-pointing tiller. Crick in the neck, too much pressure on outer-palms. Tried the bars tilted back, which increased the neck-ache/scorpion-back effect, so currently have them level as pictured. Will try for a while longer. If they don’t work out not sure where to go from here tbh, after spaffing £70 on bars and cables it’s quite a disappointment. So either cut these down 50mm and get a riser stem or go back to the straight bars plus bar-ends which in all fairness were pretty comfortable and useful, just a little narrow. Or, flared drops – which means spaffing more dosh I don’t have on things that I may hate. Fuggedaboudit! Any suggestions gratefully received before I take the cable cutters out once more…

    montgomery
    Member

    Bucking the trend, I run them horizontal; main grip area spot on, could do with the front loop angled up slightly. Needed a high rise stem to get the right position, relative to the Mary bars I had been using. That could all change on a bike with a higher front end.

    whitestone
    Member

    Malvern Rider – how are you holding them? From one of my earlier posts:

    The riding position with Jones (and rip-off) bars is different to flats and risers. With your arms hanging by your sides with elbows close to your body lift your hands upwards until your elbows are at 90degs, just let your hands rotate naturally. You’ll find that your hands move outwards slightly and are angled pretty much in line with the sweep of the Jones bars.

    So rather than being in the usual ready/attack position with elbows up and out and with your forearms pointing down, your elbows should be a little bit out from the side of your body and your forearms closer to horizontal.

    geex
    Member

    My gravel biking is more “mountain biking from the ’90s”

    It really isn’t

    throw your new bars on here

    and walk away ashamed of yourself for ever buying them in the first place.

    90s mtb was the early years of hucking, dirtjumping, duel, 4X and 5 minute long gnarly natural DH not fitting half a steering wheel to a cyclocross bike and poncing about on fireroads with bike luggage.

    Yes. I have tried those exact bars. They’re awful and would ruin the handling of every wheeled vehicle bar a wheelbarrow. If you truely want to replicate 90s mtb get a little 100mm hardtail with decent set of 710mm risers and continue riding properly until you need too many pain killers to.

    ^ ha! my 90s MTB was mostly rigid ATB. Stuck in ATB mode.

    Whitestone thnks for the tip, I’ve tried less attack-style and it feels more natural with elbows relaxed but marginally as bars are still feeling too low/close? I got on well with Mary bars and North Road style bars to make rigid MTBs more tour-friendly before, but these new monsters are proving difficult ATM so you may well be right but not quite giving up yet. Am maxed out with headset spacers. Tried both stems at my disposal and neither work well although the longer stem feels less worse. Still getting kneestrike tho. Bars set level/horizontal as angled down gets the neck and back kinking.

    Sumstrackworld question: How to calculate what degree rise needed in a new stem – necessary to raise bars by 4cm or more? Current stem as pictured ie 110mm x 5 deg

    Oh yeah, anyone with PX/OO Geoff bars had a problem fitting bar-plugs? So far destroyed two pairs with mallet and angry-knife-fettling, internal diameter is very small.

    montgomery
    Member

    Here y’go. I ended up dropping the stem a spacer or two down the steerer, it was too high as it was. I just bashed in bar plugs with a rubber hammer.

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