Which goes to prove that’s it a very complex issue. Trying to say immigration is thee issue is disingenuous at best.

What I’m hearing from disaffected Labour MPs is basically “we need a godlike figure who the proles will blindly follow, Corbyn ain’t it.”

David Miliband is back in the country, new MP for Batley?, the Messiah for labour? Mugging up on Neil Kinnocks battles with militant?

You know how race hate laws work – that its classed as a racial incident if it is perceived by the victim as being racially motivated

Well, why not look at Brexit the same way – that the vote is classed as being motivated by immigration if the voter who actually cast it perceives that they were motivated by immigration, rather than how some sneering public sector lefty who’s never met them thinks they ought to have been motivated.

On that basis, it really was very much to do with immigration.

Which goes to prove that’s it a very complex issue.

Very true, it reaches across political divides like no other issue with each voting for the same thing for polar opposite reasons. This is also what makes the post leave transition so complex as neither the conservative or labour parties have united views

David Miliband is back in the country

I thought he was the right choice instead of Ed

Andy Burnham would be the front runner I think

Enjoy an independent England and Wales, Ninfan, lock the doors, start the repatriations, see ye.

neighbouring Slough – 45.7% White, voted to leave (54.3%)

At a guess that’s n’th generation immigrants wanting to pull up the ladder behind them.

That they have to like and accept multikulti, because you don’t mind it?

Again, what makes your opinion any more valid than theirs?

Wow – is that what it comes to? In Britain we have a significant electorate who vote based on their dislike of other cultures, which drives the most important decisions facing our country? Depressing, or what?

Joe, perhaps you missed page 1 of the BS “why vote leave” document

Why should we Vote Leave on 23 June
• The PM’s deal leaves the EU in charge of the same things after his negotiation as before (no really)
• It is not legally binding – the European Court can tear it up the day after the referendum
• This is dangerous. We will keep sending at least £350 million a week abroad 😉
• Immigration will continue out of control putting public services like the NHS under strain
• The European Court will be in charge of our borders, immigration, asylum and even our intelligence services
• If we Vote Leave, we will take back control and can spend our money on our priorities

Bugger all to do with immigration? How could we have got it so wrong?

Thm, if you’re happy for it all to go down that, incredibly sinister, route… All the very best of luck to you.

Bring this back to corbyn and away from ninfan etcs sinister plans.

Do the PLP really believe that ignoring the result of the grassroots election and going tonto on Corbyn is really a good move? Considering it’s perceived that it was the labour grassroots that revolted and caused all this mess?

Like most, I am extremely unhappy about it. Shameful campaign. Please don’t insult people with denials.

sitting back and letting the lunatics take over isn’t really an option.

Thats right – far better to call them nasty names and try to ignore them, because they’re stupid and poor so will still vote for Labour at the next election anyway.

Anyway – agreed no mileage in expecting honesty – back to Corbyn while he is still around.

Bet he wished he had never agreed to bring some debate to the leadership election after all.

far better to call them nasty names and try to ignore them

Have you ever tried to reason with someone from a Newcastle council estate about why they shouldn’t use the words ****, darkies and puffs? I have many times. I admire your willingness to engage with and understand these people but how you do that without lowering yourself to that level? Because the only way to even get to first base with this sort of ignorant bigotry is to excuse and appease it. I gave up on that a long time ago I’m afraid. If racists don’t want people to call them racists, there’s a very simple solution.

Back to Corbyn. Having voted for him in September as one of the £3ers, I won’t be doing so again. It was a worthy cause and experiment, but the brexit vote has changed the political landscape so much that luxuries like Corbyn can no longer be afforded. Not sure who next, Heidi Alexander maybe?

EDIT: And WTF was Tom Watson doing at Glastonbury while all this has been going on?

Back to Corbyn. Having voted for him in September as one of the £3ers, I won’t be doing so again. It was a worthy cause and experiment, but the brexit vote has changed the political landscape so much that luxuries like Corbyn can no longer be afforded.

Interesting, I think it was Hilary Benn who said much the same thing about people who’d voted for Corbyn but would not do so again.

Hilary Benn has proven to be as disloyal, disruptive and egotistical as his father was.
No great surprise.

I don’t think I trust Andy Burnham.
Wonderful work on Hillsborough, but a bit Blairy for me.

So I’ll vote for JC, because despite some reservations, I believe he is fundamentally more decent, honest and true to the ideals of our party than any of the alternatives.

ninfan – Member
Thats right – far better to call them nasty names and try to ignore them, because they’re stupid and poor so will still vote for Labour at the next election anyway.

I’ve never once generalised about out voters in that way.

I don’t have 2 bob to rub together beyond my wages, I voted in, I’m well aware blaming the poor or the old or which ever group is an incredibly simplistic and unhelpful view.

I however, am perfectly fine with calling you and your ilk racist, you know the ones opening proliferating this utterly sinister immigration agenda. To go straight to the point, **** you.

😆

I believe he is fundamentally more decent, honest and true to the ideals of our party than any of the alternatives.

If there’s one thing the EU referendum has taught us it’s that we don’t want people like that.

Lying and deceitful politicians is what we want more of.

I’d vote Corbyn again.

I think if there is another leadership challenge and Corbyn wins some people will need to give up their seats.

Some polling (maybe Ashcroft?) said 75% of Labour voters voted remain.

Tbh that wouldn’t surprise me considering biggest in votes where the cities.

I think if there is another leadership challenge and Corbyn wins…..

If it goes to a ballot how will he get nominated? I don’t think the rules allow for the incumbent to automatically go onto the ballot paper without the required amount of nominations.

Last time he only got the required amount of nominations in the final last minutes. And that was only because it was considered that he stood no chance at all of winning.

The Parliamentary Labour Party doesn’t give a toss what Labour Party members want, only what they want matters.

For most of them deselection is a completely unrealistic threat.

Labour Party structures are really rotten and corrupt thanks to Tony Blair, a fact which few people seem to appreciate.

What makes your opinion any more valid than theirs?

The fact that his is based upon fact?

I believe he is fundamentally more decent, honest and true to the ideals of our party than any of the alternatives.

Though it seems honesty is what he is being criticised for. Not being an EU true believer he didn’t campaign for it wholeheartedly.

AS he said previously

“I would advocate a No vote if we are going to get an imposition of free market policies across Europe”,

In another debate, hosted by the Fabian Society, he said he had “mixed feelings” on the EU, and at a hustings in Warrington said he would not rule out campaigning to leave.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35743994

Though it seems honesty is what he is being criticised for. Not being an EU true believer he didn’t campaign for it wholeheartedly.

As seen previously with JC everytime he is faced with something he doesnt agree with he does a slightly reserved sulky kid impression ( national anthem, trident etc). Can you afford to excuse it as “I did my best ” if sometimes someone else might have done better?

I am worried about the larger issues and decisions that may come up if he became prime minister if this is his starting point.

I am worried about the larger issues and decisions that may come up if he became prime minister if this is his starting point.

Yep, part of being a politician is making the best of what you have. I think the majority of people believe that and why single issue conviction politicians tend to fall by the wayside either they get what they want or are out. As admirable as some of the ideas Corbyn has and as much as people like the sound of them most get that it’s a series of steps to get there. Getting grumpy because you don’t get what you want isn’t helpful.
Again if he wants his party to support him and the masses that voted for him then maybe he needs to get rid of the party?
Or maybe a lot who voted for him did a none of the others vote or a protest not expecting him to win. The only way to find out is to re ballot, probably not something he wants but a second victory should lead to some resignations and clearing of those against him.

At this point he needs to be standing up and explaining a vision for the UK in the wake of a No Vote in tangible and achievable terms with a reason as to why labour needs to be involved in the process going forward rather than being marginaliased yet again.

everytime he is faced with something he doesnt agree with he does a slightly reserved sulky kid impression ( national anthem, trident etc).

There is nothing “slightly reserved sulky kid” about Corbyn with regards to Trident and the national anthem.

Like the SNP which won a resounding victory in Scotland Corbyn is strongly opposed to Trident replacement.

And there was nothing slightly reserved sulky kid about silently showing respect at a memorial service instead of enthusiastically bellowing “God save our gracious Queen”, which apart from anything else are ridiculous words.

Go on, remind us now how he didn’t bow low enough before the Queen and it caused hysteria among the right-wing media. That’s always a good criticism of Corbyn.

What a mess….it’s all a great big F#######G MESS!

It’s now reported that Tom Watson has told Corbyn he has lost authority in PLP. Corbyn is surely now a deadman walking.

Corbyn is surely now a deadman walking.

Did he ever have the authority of them?

Everyone knows he will have to quit, why not just get on with it?

I can’t see this ending in any other way than a new SDP being formed. The two wings of the Labour party are too far apart.

he never led the PLP he has the support of all members of the party except the PLP

this is an issue a major issue and is in danger of creating civil war between the two.

I see no obvious solution

Its actually quite pathetic now – in the true sense of the word. As I said several months ago, this must be a nightmare for Corbyn and not good for his health.

He didnt want the job
He is ill-equipped for it
He is lacking leadership skills and clearly not a statesmen
He is the wrong guy, in the wrong place and the wrong time

Its amazing that political parties do this to themselves – or at least that their members chose people who are so obviously wrong. Its not just Labour, the Tories are just as guilty.

FFS, lets get this silly period over. We need an effective opposition with strong and effective leadership.

When you are a protest politician you can vote against everything with impunity. When you are a leader you have to lead and negotiate some tricky conflicts. Very different. IMHO if Corbyn had not been the leader he would have campaigned for Leave. He found himself in a no win position, or maybe he got the outcome he really wanted

Are the unions and a lot of party members not still in support of him though?

Which then runs the risk that they feel their own parties MPs are ignoring their wishes? Oh, back to normal then for politics. Tongue firmly in cheek.

When you are a protest politician you can vote against everything with impunity. When you are a leader you have to lead and negotiate some tricky conflicts. Very different.

As Bojo and Gove are about to find out

Yes, there is the irony that he has grass roots support even if he/they chose to be on different sides of this debate.