It’s Grand Tour Season! Giro d’Italia thread

I’m not for one second discounting the possibility that he’s on some truly fabulous gear, but until he pops for it, I just file that under “imponderable”, and enjoy watching the bike race.

The idea that he somehow shouldn’t win when he can (or look happy when he does it) is deeply weird to me and seems very specific to cycling fandom – Lance Trauma, I suppose. I can’t readily think of a parallel in another sport.

Regardless, unless I’ve totally misunderstood matters, fans’ feelings will never trump the fact that he and his team ultimately earn more money, the more he wins.

I thought it was a lovely gesture by pog to give his glasses and jersey to Pellizzari

The idea that he somehow shouldn’t win when he can (or look happy when he does it) is deeply weird to me and seems very specific to cycling fandom – Lance Trauma, I suppose. I can’t readily think of a parallel in another sport.

Indeed. I can’t think a racing driver wouldn’t want to win every race on the way to a championship.

One little statistic I came cross today. Merckx won 5 Giro stages before he was 26. Pog has now won 5 and is still 25! He will definitely want to win at least one more stage  in this Giro.

He will definitely want to win at least one more stage  in this Giro.

Tomorrow and Saturday both look like good candidates for that…

The idea that he somehow shouldn’t win when he can (or look happy when he does it) is deeply weird to me and seems very specific to cycling fandom – Lance Trauma, I suppose. I can’t readily think of a parallel in another sport.

Part of it is a kind of “honour” thing – an understanding that when you’ve worked together in the break for example, the guy who needs the mountain points gets them but then the other guy gets the stage win. Sharing the spoils if you like. It’s considered slightly poor form to just go winning stuff left right and centre because there are plenty of riders/teams in the peloton who have careers hanging on a knife edge and sponsorship deals drying up and who need that boost of a stage win. Even Armstrong gifted the occasional stage win – most memorably to Pantani on Mont Ventoux although Pantani then threw it back in Armstrong’s face. You don’t even need to look like you’re gifting it – a bit of theatrics, an “I tried but it was very close” sprint would have sufficed.

Giulio Pellizzari from the Italian Pro-Conti team VF Group-Bardiani CSF-Faizan for example. Second on today’s stage after some heroics in the breakaway and Pogacar cruises past him in the final km and wins a stage he had no real “need” to win. Pogacar is paid 20x what Pellizzari is, he’s an established WorldTour legend. Pellizzari is not. A win today would have been career-transforming for him, for the team, for the Italian fans and the media – but it was whipped from under his nose by someone who’s already 7+ minutes ahead on GC and has 4 stage wins to his name.

It doesn’t really translate well to other sports but cycling has a long tradition of that sort of code of honour. Whether it’s right or not, whether it’s outdated and needs to be binned off is a slightly separate argument.

least he had the “decency” to go straight past, he could have sat on and jumped him in the last 50 meters 😉

Another big mountain day today, Will they let the break go or will there once again be a doomed attempt for someone to get a win only to see Pog ride past with a cheery smile?

https://www.cyclingstage.com/giro-2024-route/stage-17-italy-2024/

Giro Stage 17 Preview

But…… What I shall remember from this stage is Pellizzari saying ‘no’ to the ‘hug’ and wanting Pog’s glasses (which are happily handed over along with Pog giving him the maglia rosa). This makes Pellizzari someone to remember and I can’t help but like Pog.

I’m not for one second discounting the possibility that he’s on some truly fabulous gear, but until he pops for it, I just file that under “imponderable”, and enjoy watching the bike race.

I agree it would be naive not to wonder, but my thoughts were that if someone was cheating, why make it so obvious and piss off the peleton to boot?

Wasn’t that what did for Pantani in the end? Getting dobbed in because of an improbable comeback up Alp D’Huez?

I’m not old enough to remember Mercx race but the way the press go on about it, you’d think it was the best time to watch cycling but it must have been boring AF for the spectators. I’m already getting bored of watching MVDP dominate the cx, then watching Pog do the same on the road.

I’d like to see one of the GC top ten really try to attack Pog. Or even a few teams working together to try to wear UAE down.

I’d like to see one of the GC top ten really try to attack Pog. Or even a few teams working together to try to wear UAE down.

They’re not going to because they know they don’t have a hope in hell. Why would you pick a fight with the biggest guy in the room? You’re going to get your head kicked in!

The “fight” is now for other places. Or for sprint points or white jersey points. You pick the fights you can (potentially) win, not the ones where you’ll get taken to bits and made to look stupid.

Can I just mention the oldest man in the race – Dominica Pozzivivo. Possibly the shortest man in the race too, but he’s amazing. Still giving it beans at the age of 41, with a body that’s so broken, you can see by the weird way he rides. He’s had so many crashes in his long career, yet gets back on the bike. What a racer.

It’s a sad but true reflection on the sport that we are all questioning  Pog’s performance. I’m sure he is passing every anti doping test they do but as a panorama programme a few years ago showed riding clean and riding passing the anti doping tests are 2 very different things.

Are we getting the full stage today?

Still plenty to play for in the best of the rest category

The “fight” is now for other places.

You’d think so, but Pog is his own worst enemy, he’ll hapilly keep pushing until he goes Pop. Unlikely at this point maybe, but not out of the question.

getting bored of watching MVDP dominate the cx, then watching Pog do the same on the road.

He could have held the gap at 2 mins and rode defensively, that would have been boring.

Yeah, it makes the GC less exciting but there’s something about seeing something so phenomenal unfolding. I’m enjoying it.

It’s a sad but true reflection on the sport that we are all questioning  Pog’s performance.

Maybe, but better than sweeping it under the rug.

Pog can only beat who turns up, and the most pertinent comment is probably that the Giro attracts a second-rate field compared with the Tour.
A bit of an unfair comment on the other riders but by that logic there are probably only 2 or 3 “first rate” riders.

Going back to this, and several other similar comments since, it’s worth looking at the palmares of Martinez, currently in second. He’s basically won the Volta ao Algarve, the Basque Tour and the Criterium de Dauphine (in 2020!). His record in grand tours is very forgettable, apart from a 5th in the Giro in 2021. Third place is G, who, taking patriotic bias out of it, is an old premium grade domestique not a GT contender any longer. This isn’t a stellar start list, you’ve basically got one star rider and a bunch of others. If anything happens to Pog and Martinez manages to win, that’ll be the best win of his entire career.

Having said that, I also agree that Pog should have the decency to look as if he’s putting a little effort in when he’s beating everybody. 😀

You’d think so, but Pog is his own worst enemy, he’ll hapilly keep pushing until he goes Pop. Unlikely at this point maybe, but not out of the question.

think it’s in Bora and Ineos interests to play on Pog being Pog and always keep the win in sight for him so he doesn’t get any easy days until Rome. May pay dividens @ le tour.

Wasn’t that what did for Pantani in the end? Getting dobbed in because of an improbable comeback up Alp D’Huez?

No, it wasn’t. He had a high haematocrit reading during the Giro while he was leading it and was chucked out of the race. after that, if I remember, his results became very erratic. I vaguely remember one stage of the TdF when he attacked with a huge distance left, seemingly just to annoy Armstrong.

I vaguely remember one stage of the TdF when he attacked with a huge distance left, seemingly just to annoy Armstrong.

Oh I remember that. He set off on some insane long break, forced US Postal to chase all day and then he blew to smithereens and finished about 20 minutes down.

Then he quit the Tour the following day but he did cause all sorts of problems for Armstrong and US Postal that day.

but does anyone else get deja vu from the Lance Armstrong days?

Yeah, what did LeMond say?  “Unbelievable”  Take that either way you want.

Speaking of ‘honour’ in the peleton…did anyone clock Quintana trying to roll Pellizzari on the line for the Cima Coppi prize? All for the prize of £5k and a visit to the podium. Nothing for Quintana but potentially massive for Pellizzari who will no doubt be negotiating a contract for next season (with Bora?)

yes I saw that, thought it was bad form. it looked pretty even – I wonder if the judges said “give it to the youngster”. As someone – Robbie? – said, Pellizzari was riding really well yesterday, only Pog was able to do anything, he’ll have a massive boost to his self-belief from that and he’s doing really well again today. Wouldn’;t it be great for him and his team if he were to get the win today? I would love to see that

If UAE back off then he might stand a chance but I think the break is done for sadly. DSM seem to be on a mission. As @Klunk says, UAE should be turning their attention to the Tour and with over 7 minutes in hand, Pog should just be rolling round now.

Bardet (12:18 down) has just launched off the front and Pog doesn’t seem to be overly bothered. I can;t see Bardet moving onto the podium but maybe he might move up a place or two?

edit – and while  I was typing that, it comes back ogether, albeit with Vermaerke and Bardet still pushing on the front

Adam Blythe is saying they’re doing 32 to  33kph up this climb

and lo, the break is caught.

Adam Blythe is saying they’re doing 32 to 33kph up this climb

He said yesterday that it was only from the Moto behind the peloton that you got an indication of how fast they were going. Nearly 40kph at times – 25mph uphill. 🤯

On TV you lose much of the sense of speed. Drone footage is good for capturing it, they’ve had some cool drone shots on various of the Classics and on a TTT stage from somewhere as well.

Steinhauser and Ghebrgzabier back off the front after they got caught and then Vermaerke sat up

Pog there going for those vital bonus seconds. Smart move.

How smooth was the tarmac on that last climb!!! 🤩

Road envy……..

How smooth was the tarmac on that last climb!!! 🤩

Road envy……

Don’t be fooled. Many Italian roads are akin to the UK atm.

Admittedly the north, particularly Trentino, Alto Adige and Veneto are generally pretty good.

Drove much off stage 8 in Umbria/Abruzzo and it was almost all nice new tarmac. Anything off the route was potholed.

Don’t be fooled. Many Italian roads are akin to the UK atm.

I remember riding Gavia Pass a few years ago and it was atrocious. Stelvio was much better but we definitely found some really pretty crap roads.

Spain for the top notch roads. Even their gravel is better than many UK roads!

When Pogacar took off towards Steinhauser with a couple of km to go I was thinking he’d go down in my estimation if he caught Steinhauser on the line and nabbed it from him. But it didn’t look like he was really drilling it and it was probably a bit too late anyway, even for him.

Spain for the top notch roads.

Yes!

Was there for five months last year and was impressed at their tarmac.

Think they have the smoothest roads in Europe. I just struggle with the language.

Our own local roads were beautifully re-tarmacked last year when the ‘Tour of Britain’ came through. Sadly it was a botch job and now mostly back to death trap pot holes for people who cycle.

Sprinty or possibly breakaway stage today, out through the prosecco vineyards.

Giro Stage 18 Preview

Looks like a better weather day, maybe the possibility of rain later on.

Breakaway day it is, it was all go go go until about 90km to go then for no apparent reason, the peloton sat up. Large break now has 7 minutes

Love breakaway days. Love AG2R. Great.

Imagine how much better that win would have been with brown shorts though.

I think Geraint may have had brown shorts 7km from the finish.

Imagine how much better that win would have been with brown shorts though.

It’s notable that since they dropped the brown shorts this season, they’ve suddenly become incredibly successful. Perhaps it was the brown shorts holding them back?

I understand Luke Plapp had the brown shorts today. He did well to stay in the break.