Is mountain biking still too misogynistic

I always took the owning of terms like whore in that event to be a strong feminist statement, taking back control of the term used to subjugate. But what women chose to call themselves is a matter for them and i’d be no more comfortable saying if this was right or wrong than i would be being white and commenting on the use of the N word.

I wasn’t generalising at all, but whoever wrote this certainly was which was my point about ill thought out comments…

@kerley am actually agreeing with you cos I found the original comment by another user to be pretty inflammatory and not conducive to a sensible discussion.

Woman don’t want equality they want equity.

The overriding issue here isn’t what men want or what women want, it’s one of generalisation. Assuming that you can categorise men, women, whites, blacks, Chinese, French, gay people etc just based on that characteristic.

Women don’t all want the same thing any more than you want what I want.

I think one of the big obstacles is that mountain biking as a whole is not beginner friendly. As mentioned above, the ‘bro culture’, feeling out of place in a shop, having a mid ride mechanical you can’t fix or having to push down a section of trail… add all this into a sport that is currently male dominated and it could easily feel like you’re being excluded.

My ex girlfriend got into riding whilst we were together and her issue was finding people to ride with at her level and places to ride. She wanted it to be her own hobby, not just tagging along with me. After a few solo laps of Swinley she got bored and moved on to climbing.

I’ve certainly never seen any misogyny within my current riding group when we’ve had women join us, but the difference being they’ve always been competent riders, not beginners.

On a related note, I think women’s DH has some great ambassadors at present and I can’t wait to see a category with a number of potential race winners once we’re back racing. It’ll be interesting if we see this being converted into race entries.

You’d be happy for your daughter or wife to be the fastest Whore?
Imagine if mens races were categorised by their sexual prowess? Who’s riding in the Impotent race?

Wouldn’t care – Their choice to enter and have an opinion on the categories.

which demonstrates that women do the lions share of domestic responsibilities

Ever think they choose to do it. We share responsibility in our house and we certainly don’t count up the hours to make sure we spit it 50/50. Sorry but if you can’t make time to do something you want to do then you are in a bad relationship.

and if you’ve tried to home school children whilst running the house you’ll know that’s harder work than driving a laptop

Your home schooling must be different to mine. It couldn’t be easier.

@nickc

I stand corrected, (kind of)

I’ve got all the 2019 issues of mbuk and all of the front covers feature a motley assortment of fairly ugly blokes (sorry!!!).

Before the lockdown, I’d try to get a quick swatch of mbr and stw as I meandered through the supermarket. Obviously my ‘quest’ has not been thorough enough.

People can tell me to ‘cluck right off’, but in the interests of gender equality, I’d like to say… bring out the chix😊

“Your home schooling must be different to mine. It couldn’t be easier.”

It depends on so many factors. We have a free spirit of a 7 year old who is away in imagination land with little desire for structured work, a very busy 4 year old who keeps asking me to do “pluses” with him and the world’s most impatient and intolerant 6 month old.

I imagine your children are different, most are.

5, 10 and a 15 year old.

She also join the local roller derby… … She ended up finding it very clicky

Same here, my missus went through the same thing when she got pregnant. Sod ’em.

I’ve yet to see the printed edition of an MTB mag with a female on the front cover. Chicken. Egg. Chicken. Egg…

Have been for years, not as regularly as the males granted but then they are less represented.

Singletrack have as well but the link is broken. May 2015

How many replies from female users have there been, as a matter of interest?

Two by my count, I’m not including you because you haven’t actually expressed an opinion for reasons only you know.

How do you feel about events such as Air Maiden?
Would you feel comfortable entering the Virgin or Whore’s categories?

Is there another national sport that officially refers to women like that?

Whoa, that’s one event, not an entire national sport. Let’s keep this in perspective. I can see how both sides of opinion come to their conclusions but

what women chose to call themselves is a matter for them and i’d be no more comfortable saying if this was right or wrong than i would be being white and commenting on the use of the N word.

I’m not about to mansplain to a woman who organised a women only event why it’s misogynistic. Yes, I can see why it is problematic but I can also see that’s not at all the spirit in which it was intended (self-deprecation being a fine Scottish tradition). For that reason I would have no problem at all if my wife or daughter earned such a title. And even that that’s MY problem; my approval doesn’t, and shouldn’t count for anything.

Poah – I would be interested in your other halfs take on this

If a female only riding race wanted to have categories of virgin to whores would I be offended by it, no. Asked my misses if she would and again she said no but did say she could see if others could be offended.

The roller derby that I talked about previously was very much pin up girl, short hot pants, tongue in cheek player names and girl power vibe about it. Your first game was always known as the cherry popper. They do have a very small men’s following but again they didn’t do any real encouragement to get me involved to the level that the women’s teams had. The men’s teams were more of an after thought. Again the kit itself isn’t cheap (skates could be couple of hundred quid, then pads and helmet) so to give it a try you would need to borrow gear which they didn’t have. My main point is that any event is hard to market and equally encourage everyone from every background without offending.

Poah – I would be interested in your other halfs take on this

Take on what specific part?

Interesting topic, one that could apply to many sports I suppose.

Part of the challenge for me is trying to understand what is meant when people say “mountain biking” as one homogenous sport or pastime. Jumping in the woods 50:01 style, racing DH, racing XC, bikepacking or going for a family ride around a trail centre would all look like mountain biking I suppose, but how I imagine the participants (for right or wrong) varies a bit for me, through my own prism and experiences. I guess that’s the perception element, then!

For me, I’d never have been attracted to mountain bikes in the 1990s if it was all Geoff Apps and the Rough Stuff Fellowship. That isn’t “mountain biking” to my perception of the sport, but it is obviously riding bikes off road, so clearly I’m skewed. As for so many, it was the rise of the “rad” element of DH in the 90s that attracted me, boozing, jumping through fires and unattractive behaviour and all.

So the point of my rambling is this – when people look at “mountain biking” and are put off, what do they see? I can’t judge that, but it seems unfair to point a finger at one corner of the sport and shout “it’s that lot with the spliff/stickers/beard..” 🙂

I know Manon has been on the front of MBUK twice, Tahnee once, Rachel Atherton at least once and Vero Sandler in the last 2 months 👍

How do you feel about events such as Air Maiden?

I wouldn’t enter or support an event with sexually-themed category titles. For me, it’s inappropriate, and I would find it disrespectful; however, others may not relate to my point of view and may look on it in a positive way. It’s all good – variety is the spice of life, as they say.

Over the years I’ve mostly ridden as the only female in a group of males. Mostly this has been a lot of fun. Lots of general banter, which I enjoy – only occasional male-oriented banter (if you get my drift, I’m trying to be polite) – and this would only occur in larger groups with people I’d never met before. On those occasions I didn’t feel offended, but I did feel excluded – but not that big a deal – I’m fairly adept at closing my ears and minding my own business – it wouldn’t put me off, but I wouldn’t choose to ride with those folk again.

What did put me off riding with a group of males was the feeling of holding everyone back. I’ve almost always been the slowest in the group, even while being a competent rider at my own pace. It’s not much fun to feel like a pain in everyone’s backside. But … I’ve ridden with some really fast guys and had a great time, and never once felt like I was holding them back – I was holding them back, but they had lovely manners and included me as part of the group regardless of my speed.

In my own experience, riding with other women is more relaxed – the pace is more happily suited to the slowest of the group, and the atmosphere is one of encouragement. I haven’t been able to ride for the last few years and am currently planning my grand return to mtb. I’ll likely ride solo most of the time, perhaps sometimes with female friends. I would feel the need to get my fitness, technical skills and confidence back to a high level before considering riding with a group of men … but would be keen to do that … variety is the spice of life, as they say … wait, did I say that before? ;o)

I suspect mtb is much the same as any other area of life – some people are respectful and mannerly towards others regardless of their gender and the specific situation – others, not so much.

Rona, riding with others who make you feel like you are holding them back is never pleasant. It used to happen to me all the time, but then the “fit group” all became roadies. There is a certain competitive alpha type thing that’s (understandably) quite prevalent in MTB. I ride with mates, we natter, we wait, we have fun. I’d suggest just finding a group that likes the aspects of MTB you like rather than be dictated too much by gender.

Oh and the “fit group” also contained girls who left me behind as well 🙂

I’ve almost always been the slowest in the group

This is me on pretty much every group ride I go on up and down the trails lol

Blackflag – thanks, great advice. Yup, definitely prefer the chatting, fun type of ride. I have, on occasion, left a male rider behind … but it was generally because they were injured, or their bike was broken!

poah – I feel your pain. My personal favourite is finally arriving at the top of the climb, beetroot and peching, only for everyone else to decide that my appearance signals the end of rest time. My partner would ride back down the hill to see what was keeping me, ride alongside for a while until he got bored, and then accelerate off in a cloud of dust. Drove me bonkers, but still makes me laugh!

poah – I feel your pain. My personal favourite is finally arriving at the top of the climb, beetroot and peching, only for everyone else to decide that my appearance signals the end of rest time

yes although the last time I rode with people Mctrail rider and cathro did wait before going on and shouted “encouraging words” when I was near the top of the mountain.

ha ha – I can imagine!

People who do that are dicks Rona. Its just bad form.

Thanks tj – appreciated.

I suspect mtb is much the same as any other area of life – some people are respectful and mannerly towards others regardless of their gender and the specific situation – others, not so much.

Indeed. I’ve been on all-male rides with a wide range of abilities and I’ve seen the slowest rider left behind and almost forgotten about as the faster riders ride up and chat away. And yes, I did stay back and ride with him.

“My personal favourite is finally arriving at the top of the climb, beetroot and peching, only for everyone else to decide that my appearance signals the end of rest time.“

This is the worst! In my local posse we have a laidback Thursday group which mostly rides the singletrack, and then a fast Tuesday group which does more XC miles.

To keep the pace up the Tuesday group does the “last rider basically never gets a rest thing”, so if you’re not having an easy time on Thursday evening you don’t try Tuesdays! But that works because we have a slower ride with much less of that competitive silliness (and it’s a few years since I did a Tuesday, not sure if I could keep up now…)

Wow, who’d have thought that the “sexist **** of the thread” award would go to a woman! Or is faery actually a 13 year old boy and helping prove the thread’s assertion? Never read such tripe in my life. If you think women do more in the home that says way more about you than society, please grow up and get out more.

I would say it’s a lot better than it was and it’s pretty much always been better than road riding. I dabbled in that for a while and it was proper weird – finding races with a women’s category was an issue just for a start.

I’m lucky that I’m pretty fit so I’m usually mid pack on mixed rides and no one has really given me much of a second glance – at least since I got a few skills.

I like that Singletrack has had a few women on the front cover and generally in pictures – I don’t think you have to make a big deal about women riding but if we only ever see blokes in pictures then it does make (me at least) feel a bit invisible. Likewise blokey advertising is a bit ‘is this really for me? Are you really trying to just appeal to 50% of your potential market?’ – I’m thinking of that ad with a near naked woman holding knee pads over her tits. That is certainly not where I wear them.

If you think women do more in the home that says way more about you than society, please grow up and get out more.

By that, presumably you think men do more? Depends on the home, no?

If you think women do more in the home that says way more about you than society, please grow up and get out more.

I think you’ll find that faeries assertion is based very much on facts gathered through various studies, but don’t let that get in the way of your unnecessary rant.

Oooo, that’s toxic lustyd. Can you be civil? I backed up what I said with a link to evidence, not with insults and I recognise that there are exceptions. Why are people taking it so personally and attacking me? Don’t speculate as to my personal circumstances, that’s just plain nasty. I think that you are confirming what I said earlier about misogyny and sycophantic behaviour, a woman can’t have an informed difference of opinion of her own.
Have a cup of tea dear.

calomine?

Faeries assertion is literally the same thing as saying women don’t cycle because they are too fragile. It’s utter nonsense and is entirely the problem. People are free to do what they want, you want to go cycling? go for it. You want to look after children? go for it. None of these things require genitalia to achieve. We need to defend men at least as much as we defend women to move forwards, and that kind of pushback is just harmful no matter how many “facts” and “studies” you care to quote.

“I backed up what I said with a link to evidence”

No you didn’t, there is no evidence here, just studies by people trying to earn a degree using statistics to prove their point. You’re not helping either side, you’re just stiring the pot and I’m calling you out on it. suggesting men aren’t capable or happy in the home is just as bad as suggesting women like to wear pink satin and hate mud. You’re not helpful, no matter how intellectual you think you’re being. In reality you’re just a troll like the rest of them.

Been on the ale tonight lustyd? Maybe step away from the internet for a bit.

No Tom, I just hate sexist people like Faerie. The statement that women have more responsibility in the home is ridiculous in any stable relationship. Responsibility is shared and if you end up otherwise that’s your own doing.

Somebody needs a shag.

If that’s the case Scotroutes, try Tinder. But wait until the lockdown is over first…

Responsibility is shared and if you end up otherwise that’s your own doing.

I think what is being said is that it can be shown that in a majority of cases (As shown in studies), it ends up otherwise, possibly through choice, possibly necessity, whatever. I imagine a proper 50/50 split is a rare thing, despite it being the ideal. No need to go on a rant dishing out insults to folk relaying the results.

So we need to push mens issues on a thread about misogyny, ignoring the barriers which prevent women from cycling?
And you do this by being aggressive and insulting and in effect telling a mature woman to shut up?
Has someone upset you? There’s some great threads on here which have supported other forum users, I hope you find a safe and satisfying outlet for your frustrations. I charge by the hour for “therapy” sessions

Scotroutes, I have a special green tea guaranteed to make you say ahhhh.

Tom it’s not the “facts” it’s the way they are used, and the way “she” used them was extremely discriminatory. Women don’t have an exclusive on being offended by sexist behaviour and statements, and if someone suggests that as a man you can’t raise a family then it’s absolutely right to reject that behaviour. Discrimination is discrimination regardless of how you dress it up, and we should all fight against these trolls to ensure a more fair future for everyone. As it happens I think mountain biking is one of the more equal sports at all levels with very little real discrimination. As for the OP, some people like pictures of bodies, boobs and boners. That’s not sexist, it’s just a picture and the offence is imaginary. Throughout history the human body and its various parts have featured in art on stone walls, caves, tattoos, canvas and bike parts. Making a penis out of marble in Italy is no different, yet it draws the crowds every summer because it’s “art”.

“ignoring the barriers which prevent women from cycling?”

There are zero barriers preventing women from cycling. How is that hard to understand? Buy a bike, ride it, it’s literally that simple. I know a lot of men who won’t go cycling due to internal mental barriers, that’s not a gender issue that’s a personal issue. Learn the difference and I guarantee you’ll have a happier and more productive life. Men are not stopping you cycling. We won’t do something bad if you’re cycling on “our” trails. We literally don’t care as long as you don’t call us fat in lycra.