is hi-fi emporers new clothes..?

I got to help running the LS3/5a room at the 2000 and 2001 HiFi News shows at Heathrow – the only amateur room there.

The first year it was my tube amp (Rogers E40a), my CD player (Micromega Leader) and a 28 year old pair of LS3/5as that were used most of the time.

The room was rammed with people and loads of people saying that we had the best sound in the show.

The next year we had some Quad II amps (30 year old) with a new croft micro pre-amp, and £2.5k CD front end we had borrowed and the same set of old LS3/5as.

The room was better acoustically and we spent more time positioning the speakers.

Again the room was rammed and we were getting the same comments.

At the end of Saturday we put on a live recording of some blues and turned off the lights.

The band could have been right in front of us, it was surreal.

Rogers LS3/5a are the sweetest sounding speakers

Sold all my Hifi kit just recently as its just not compatible with such a young family.

What an odd statement. We’ve 3 kids (teenagers now) but never did we even consider doing anything other than stairgates and a child-proof lock for the undersink cupboard.

bokonon is describing our relationship with food.. he eats it cos it keeps him alive, but he can’t understand michelin dining..

The focus placed on the quality of the playback system is indicative of a shift away from “music” as a phenomenon of socio-cultural interaction between people, something which happens between people, rather than a thing in and of itself.

This type of ephemeral and transient, experiential arrangement is not a good relationship to have with music in a capitalist society – it makes it difficult to extract surplus value, because it is difficult to place music in the situation where it is, in and of itself, a commodity, whilst minimising labour costs – live music by their very nature have high labour costs – as such, the commodification of music is required – turning music from a thing which happens between people, to a thing in and of itself.

Once this process (which is facilitated by technology) and a re-alignment of the music into the mould of a capitalist commodity has taken place then the fetishisation of the technology which facilitates the individual commodity consumption becomes an obvious outlet.

I disagree that my relationship to music is similar to a ‘food is fuel’ type approach, I’d argue my relationship with music os more complex, because it’s based in an interactive two way process between composer/performer/listener rather than a one way interaction between playback system and listener – the playback system doesn’t matter, because the interest lies in the music, not the commodity of the album itself.

tl:dr – hifi buffs are shills for capitalism and the commodification of culture.
(Adorno, T., & Horkheimer, M. Dialectic of Enlightenment. 1944)

sorry bokonon.. My comments were very tongue in cheek..

the music that I base my love of good hi-fi around is invariably music that has been created specifically to be appreciated for it’s sonic merits as much as it’s musicality..

I understand that with classical music, rock, pop, dance music, jazz, reggae etc etc.. the experience of trapping it inside your head, quietly and alone with your over priced technology is very sterile..

but there is a corner of the music industry’s ego that prides itself on production..
and then we have entire genres that were designed to be experienced in a meditative state.. and then there is surely an argument that listening to any music could aid relaxation and meditation, and that listening to your favourite music on good equipment will relax you more than a jarring and distorted sound that fails to even represent the composer’s intentions..

it’s just a different method of administering the same drug, enabling us to achieve different results and adding another dimension..

anyone paranoid enough to fear these advances surely can’t really understand the power of music..?

Rogers LS3/5a are the sweetest sounding speakers

I don’t like any 15ohm LS3/5a, or the ones we used in that show, as they are all bloated and slow in the bass to my ears.

I prefer 11ohm LS3/5as, although they have less extension and sound like 2/3rd of a speaker, so need a sub.

As a standalone LS3/5a I much prefer the Stirling Broadcast V2 version – although I know Doug so take my recommendation lightly maybe. They are much less compressed sounding and have a far superior bass. The only drawback is that the tweeter, which is the same as in the Harbeth HLP3, beams a little more than the T27.

But best of all is my 11ohm LS3/5as with the Cicable crossovers, in thinner wall cabinets like the original prototypes.

Now they are sweet…

Is there a difference between an individual paying to listen to a live act or a download? Either way music is a commodity.

And this interaction with the performer you speak of. Are you one of these groupies?

It’s all about what you play..

The focus placed on the quality of the playback system is indicative of a shift away from “music” as a phenomenon of socio-cultural interaction between people, something which happens between people, rather than a thing in and of itself.

…

the playback system doesn’t matter

what a load of guff.

Sure, some people may get lost in hifi-itus where they are chasing enhanced resolution, awesome sound, etc.

But most people buy a system to play back music, and a good system is needed to play back music well.

The system needs to present the music well, hopefully presenting a facsimile of a live performance even, or you are not going to want to listen to it.

That is maybe why tube amps are popular – they may add harmonic distortion and so be less accurate, but so does listening live to a band in a club.

The ultimate accuracy doesn’t necessarily matter, just the recreation of a believable ‘soundstage’ such that you can forget that you are listening to a system, but listen to the performance.

As to the new clothes thing, no of course it’s not.
The commonly accepted definition of HiFi is to get as close to the original source as possible.
No problem with that.
Some kit is good at this, some is not.

I put in another thread

Listening to a bad music system is like reading a book with half the words blanked out, or a badly focused photograph.
You can sort of tell what’s going on but you the miss a lot of the detail.

I like systems that present as much of the original info as possible in the way the artists/producers/engineers intended.

It’s then up to me to decide whether I like the music or not. That’s the important bit.

And I’ll stick with that.

Some very interesting parallels regarding how we consume music and how we drink alcohol in some of these posts, btw.

In each case, it’s not the sound or the alcohol that’s the problem, it’s how we use them.

Blaming a Hi Fi fanatic for your broken relationship with music is like blaming a real ale fan for your alcoholism.

Solo – Member
Apologies to all. I haven’t read the other posts.

However, for me its this simple.

Yes, it seems so.

Even a modest HiFi has become a bit of a rarity these days. Far far better than the current offerings one finds in electrical sheds. The rise of Japanese £99-£200 discrete satellite surround sound systems, or one box mobile phone docks seem to have almost obliterated real HiFi. They sound better than the total rubbish that preceded them, but they are relatively still rather poor/mediocre at best.

I was once an avid HiFi enthusiast, but the incessant interruptions from my wife put pay to my listening pleasure. Her musical taste extends to: Pet Shop Boys, Robbie Williams and Take That – moron!

Many years later, the marriage slowly broke down and I’m just about to get my decree absolute, so a small detached bachelor pad will soon be sought. 😀

Any man who has been through a divorce will recall wincing at the pain and injustice of the whole process, but I am hugely excited at the cessation of the insufferable and largely pointless squawking from that nagging whining stress bag! Believe you me, I did my damnedest to try and understand what went on in that inscrutable tiny little brain of hers, but I failed spectacularly. After a mesmerising 25 year voyage of discovery, I still DO NOT have a bloody clue! Game now over – how magnificent.

That hideous undignified soul destroying cacophony will be soon replaced by relaxing mellifluous tones washing over me, delivered by my beloved real HiFi system!

The Spongebob bachelor pad will also include a robust bike shed to store “the collection” and all sorts of other delights will adorn my new home. No more shall frilly chintzy clutter and other functionless detritus, blight my life. 😀 😀 😀

congratulations are in order Spongebob… 25 years wandering alone in the desert must have been quite an ordeal..

welcome home 😀

TurnerGuy, did you manage to find a UK source for those Pioneer speakers btw?

Another LS3/5a fan here – mine went years ago, never found anything quite the same.

Thank you Yunki. I was trying very hard not to sound misogynistic. Must confirm that my feelings are purely about my ex-wife, not women in general (especially the slim ones with long legs, big tits and who don’t hate men) 😆

I’m going to hi-jack my own thread here

does anyone know much about Chario Silhouette 100 speakers..?

I need to pick up a second hand amp to power them.. I used to use an anomalous budget Denon that won a few awards, but I can’t quite remember the model number or specs..

Whilst we’re here, what might be involved if I wanted to go “emping”, I wonder…

Clearly, at least a change of work wear.

lol @ gofasterstripes

Emping is Indonesian chips, a bite-size snack kripik cracker made of melinjo or belinjo (gnetum gnemon) nut. The emping crackers have a slightly bitter taste.[1] The emping snack available in the market can tasted plain (original), salty or sweet depends on the addition of salt or caramelized sugar.

😕 Eh?

Another LS3/5a fan here – mine went years ago, never found anything quite the same.

If you are anywhere near Horsell in Surrey I can lend you some V2’s to try. Next month I will be getting Stirling Broadcasts AB-2 bass extenders, which perform quite differently to the old AB-1s and really make the combination a full-range system.

Have you also tried Harbeth M30s, bigger but very much like a high grade LS3/5a – I had some but my room and wife didn’t really compliment them…

congratulations are in order Spongebob

I might also be going down this route – although amicably at the moment…

Spongebob – Member

Eh?

emporers new clothes

🙄

congratulations are in order Spongebob
I might also be going down this route – although amicably at the moment…

Sorry to hijack this thread, but I can’t let this be…

Amicable is a strange word, used repeatedly by her nasty little hypocrite divorce lawyer – man, was that woman SO ugly. A real man hating dyke no doubt!

Top tip: avoid engaging a lawyer until you have worked out the bones of a deal. (To my utter dismay and totally beyond my control, this was where my wife started off, thus causing maximum expense and acrimony).

Better still, seek professional help from the likes of organisations like Relate to reconcile your differences. (My wife refused, saying she didn’t need any counselling because her life was perfect, except for me – nutter!)

Damn, HiFi…….

Ta for the offer, but up North.

Had lots of nice bits and bobs in the 80’s.
No one wanted old valve amps – think my last pair of Quad II’s were bought for £150 and sold for not much more. Can’t believe how much they are now.
Same with original ESL’s.

Seriously thinking about trying a pair of those Pioneers. Will try asking a few dealers and see if they can get hold of a pair.

I must confess that one of the many advantages of being a singleton is being able to play one’s music whenever one wants and at whatever volume one wants. 8)

Top tip: avoid engaging a lawyer until you have worked out the bones of a deal

already planned, there have been several DIY divorce threads on here recently so I have been taking notes…

But she had a bout of depression last year so I have told her to wait until it is sunny and she is pumped up on vitamin D before making any decisions 🙂

But it will be nothing like my mates recent split from his Chinese wife.

Things first started to go bad when the social worker, when assessing his access to the kids, took exception when her casually referred to her by the name ‘nutty’!

But she did go nutty and her kids were fully aware. When they went to court it was her lawyer than pushed for a court order for access as he recognised that she was unlikely to give access anyway.

She hasn’t given access and takes the phones from her daughters so they can’t text dad.

She is living in the house but recently said that she was selling it for 570k, but it turns out she is selling it to her brother for 625k, all part of trying to screw my mate over. And she is very wealthy on her own account.

Think of the Landlady in KungFu Hustle – I think that probably sums it up.

Ta for the offer, but up North.

Have you tried Rogers JR149s?

same complement of drivers as a 15ohm LS3/5a but but more wideband and less compressed – although not quite the protection and midrange.

Unfortunately they are going up in price now.

Another for the must try list!

Ta for that, will keep an eye out.

Rogers JR149’s were lovely speakers, especially when partnered with the matching coffee table style Rogers active subwoofer.

I had a set of perfect walnut Rogers 3/5a’s with the AB1’s back in the late 90’s I sold them on ebay to a chap in Australia for a fortune and yet I still think he got the better end of the deal. Even my wife who has no interest in hifi but likes music thinks they were the best speakers we ever had. Limited in lots of ways but for vocals there’s nothing better IMHO.

So, umm, what do you lot make of this?

http://www.tonearm.co.uk/faq-tonearms-frequently-asked-questions.htm

Oops, sorry.

http://www.tonearm.co.uk/tonearm.htm

The tech behind the mods, the percentages of improvement….? Sounds pretty crazy stuff.

Yet EVERYONE seems to rate these upgrades, so it must be great?

😆 @ gofasterstripes’ rickrolling.

Not sure about freq.response, but LS3/5a sure have a far better WAF* than Nautilus 801s…

(*Wife Acceptance Factor)

The audiomods mods seem to be rated higher than the OL ones

Cheers for the heads-up TurnerGuy!

Sold all my Hifi kit just recently as its just not compatible with such a young family.

What an odd statement. We’ve 3 kids (teenagers now) but never did we even consider doing anything other than stairgates and a child-proof lock for the undersink cupboard.

I never understood why so many people sell/store their hifi once kids are on the scene either. Just teach them what they can and can’t touch. I have active ATC’s and a 2yo running around. I’d rather have a decent stereo in the house than have a crappy mini/dock system. I accept that one day they will probably suffer some kind of damage. But drivers can be replaced and cabinets cleaned up should the worst happen, it won’t be the end of the world.

I never understood why so many people sell/store their hifi once kids are on the scene either. Just teach them what they can and can’t touch

Ask the mother! This is beginning of their long process of emasculating their partners.

Once you give them a baby, you fall to the bottom of the pecking order and then it’s game over.

From there on in, they will have it all their own way, in the interests if the child of course!

We have a proper hearing test (sound proof booth) as part of our annual work medical. In my case I have 30% loss in my left ear at the 4khz frequency. Spending loads on HiFi in my case would just be a waste of money, and I suspect if people knew the state of there hearing the same would be true for many.

Spending loads on HiFi in my case would just be a waste of money, and I suspect if people knew the state of there hearing the same would be true for many.

That’s bollox – if you tell the difference between listening to a music system and listening to a band live then you will be able to appreciate and benefit from a good quality system.

TurnerGuy – Member
Spending loads on HiFi in my case would just be a waste of money, and I suspect if people knew the state of there hearing the same would be true for many.
That’s bollox – if you tell the difference between listening to a music system and listening to a band live then you will be able to appreciate and benefit from a good quality system.

Absolutely! My hearing is good for my age, (58), but I have tinnitus, (thanks, Phil Lynott!), and I struggle sometimes following conversations in noisy environments, but that doesn’t detract from my enjoyment of music played on quality equipment. Listening to 320Kb digital copies through my Shures I can clearly hear differences in the quality of mastering, Fairground Attraction’s album sounds dull, compared to the sparkle that Laura Marling or Elbow’s albums have.

Exactly what Doof Doof said…We’ve a 15month old running round, I built a decent cabinet to store the Hi Fi and the Grilles just live on the Floorstanders now. There is a point though, for instance these days I wouldn’t dream of spending hundreds of pounds on Interconnects.

She enjoys sitting in between them in what is now called Vinyl Saturdays where she dances away to Black Sabbath, Megadeth and the like whilst playing with chewing her way through (the less valuable) record sleeves.

I just can’t understand why people would listen to music through a computer…I can just about bear listening to the radio (but even then I’ve got it hooked up to teac mini amp and monitor speakers bolted above the drawing boards)