INCOMING !! New frame day… Bird Aether 7

Offended?
what a strange thing to say.
As weeksy himself said.

It’s a sodding discussion forum

With discussions often come opinions that you don’t agree with.
Some people seem to not respond well to suggestions that keep changing your bike setup is not the answer.

If it helps (probably not but 🤷‍♂️) I find the newer lls bikes a bit tricky in tighter and twisty single-track and I still can’t get used to riding them.

Fair play to you Weeksy for analysing stuff rather than just selling it like I do 😄

Fair play to you Weeksy for analysing stuff rather than just selling it like I do 😄

The analysis is just an additional step before the sale (slowly backs out of thread so as not to offend 😉 )

I’ve owned 3 MTB in 5 years, t130, g160 and the Bird. I’m not exactly a serial swapper. I only swapped to the Bird because the G160 was killing shocks and 216*63 was getting ridiculous to find now.

I’ll keep analysing both myself and the bike until I’m happy, whether that’s tyres, bars, angles, shocks, etc. Why not, it’s what I do. I’ve that kind of mindset.
I’ve also got a session in 2 weeks with Katy Curd training to improve me so will also be interested in what she says, mostly because she’ll actually be watching me rather than making assumptions. But hey that’s what happens here.

The bike isn’t going, I’ve fixed the mech hanger and straitened the bars which were knocked out of alignment in the crash.

I’m not riding today though as I’m a bit delicate along with having had Covid injection earlier today

I’m glad you’re not selling it because this thread is one of the reasons I’ve ordered one, and mine hasn’t arrived yet. That said the Aether is shorter, taller and steeper than my last frame so I reckon I’ll get on with it just fine.

LOL then i apologise if you hate it 😀

In all seriousness, i do really like the bike. I just didn’t quite gel with it on Sat at Afan. But that may have been it’s fault, my fault, a combination of issues or… well, maybe neither.

My times were not that far off my best, Zig Zag mid for example was a 2:00 segment and i was 2s off my PR, Graveyard i was 15s off, a couple of others it’s 2-3s off the pace, but conditions were not exactly superb, so i think as much of it is in my head as anything else. ALong with potentially me being old ! Lots of other segments we were stopping for small boys or even adults, so lots of segments are massively longer than you’d expect in time.

One main thing i do need is a chainring plan. I bought a 30T sram steel from Tredz for £16… lets just say, well, it’s not very good… it’s noisy as heck ! Not sure at this stage if that’s because it’s cheapo steel, because it’s a cheap N/W or because it’s a new ring on an old chain… Something i need to look into. I only need it on for 1 ride though which is Snowdon, so likely i’ll just use it for that and then throw straight in the spares box..

But would be nice to have a 30T that’s quiet… (My 32T isn’t exactly silent.. but not as noisy at the new 30T)

Get a 28, that’s where it’s at these days.
Though I must admit that the consequent lack of a twelfth gear is rather vexatious:-)

“ Not sure at this stage if that’s because it’s cheapo steel, because it’s a cheap N/W or because it’s a new ring on an old chainring…”

I suspect it’s the chain – I’ve got a SRAM steel on my Levo and it’s very quiet.

Regarding the Aether, it’s really not that different to your G160 – front centre is about an inch longer, some from the reach, some from the head angle. And the BB is a fair bit lower. Based on my experience with my modified Bird hardtail which is rather similar in geometry when both are at sag, I’d try raising your bars again – it doesn’t take much but I find it easier to weight the front when I’m not having to reach out and down so much.

It’s not the size (oooer missus) but the noise that’s the issue. When it rotates it’s like it grabs onto the chain on a couple of teeth. I know all narrow wide rings are noisy, but this does seem more so than I’d expect

I’ve got a spare 11s new chain, well a couple actually
Will try one in the morning

Might be because it’s steel, I forget which bike it was but a recent review of a high pivot/chain idler pulley bike mentioned the steel idler pulley was more noisy than an aluminium one.

Instant silence with new chain…. Which has kinda made me rethink my chain lube situation, but that’s a whole other discussion for another place.

X-sync 2 chainrings are awesome – probably the best nw type rings out there tbh. Steel for cheap and last almost forever / alloy got lightness (but a bit too pricey).

Sounds like a new chain was the way forward!

You keep playing with stuff – it sounds like you enjoy tinkering. I’m often messing about with tyres and little bits and bobs – although nowhere near as much as you. I get some good natured piss taking on the tyres which is fair.

Katy is great – maybe get her to work as much as possible on tight / steep tech with you. I had a session booked with her that was postponed and need to re-book. I’ll be splitting it between steep tech / slow speed drops / jumps.

You keep playing with stuff – it sounds like you enjoy tinkering. I’m often messing about with tyres and little bits and bobs – although nowhere near as much as you. I get some good natured piss taking on the tyres which is fair.

Katy is great – maybe get her to work as much as possible on tight / steep tech with you. I had a session booked with her that was postponed and need to re-book. I’ll be splitting it between steep tech / slow speed drops / jumps.

Yes i do and without doubt i will keep tinkering. I’m looking forward to seeing the Shockwiz reports. Yesterday i was in and out of the garage 5 times doing this and that, swapping, tweaking and sorting. I used to be the same with motorbikes, but my motorbikes are mostly left alone in terms of spannering now and just get cleaned and thrashed around racetracks.

Sadly for me, Katy is coming up a week too late, we’re at a Welsh Enduro the weekend before in Wales (17th). WE’re not with KAty until the 22nd. My lad has been with her for 5 sessions now and is massively improved. If you follow her on Facebook etc you’ll have seen him as she’s made him a little bit of a poster boy with upcoming stuff, he often makes her FB/Insta… But as i say, sadly it’s 5 days after the race, would have been ace to be able to take some extra knowledge into the race.

MAy not be too interesting to you lot, but was to me. Stuck the Shockwiz on as i collected it on the weekend

2021-07-09_10-46-14 by Steve Weeks[/url], on Flickr

Now that’s interesting to me because i stuck an extra 20psi in it as well before this ride as i thought it was a bit too soft, so from 182>198. However the Shockwiz still wants more, so i’ve just gone to 216psi now. Will test it tomorrow.

2021-07-09_10-46-22 by Steve Weeks[/url], on Flickr

2021-07-09_10-46-30 by Steve Weeks[/url], on Flickr

Had an ace ride and with the new chain on it’s quiet as a sleeping mouse 🙂 . The handling wasn’t tested much, but round here it’s more XC than gnarly reds, so you can only ride what you have available to you 🙂

I’ve lost the detail amongst the stream of consciousness stuff, but whats the shock and what do you weigh?

Although I have the A9, AFAIK, the frame rate is pretty similar and at 92kg I’m running an x2 with 245psi and three tokens – may or may not be useful.

Shock is a 2021 DPX2 from Bird in a tune correct for this frame. I generally go my weight in lb to psi.
However when bouncing on it i liked 180 (ish) psi, weighing 92kg…

I then went to 200psi and now 216psi. I’ve got 1 token in there, which depending on how it goes tomorrow, may come out. I don’t think i’m particularly fussy on shocks though, i’ll run whatever Shockwiz says and just get on with it.

Obviously there’s a minor plus side of more psi should give me less pedal strikes.

I don’t think i’m particularly fussy on shocks though, i’ll run whatever Shockwiz says and just get on with it.

You kinda are, though. In reality, ignore the pressure and set it to the correct sag, then look at whether tokens are needed or not.

and set it to the correct sag

Correct is open to interpretation though. In the previous years i’ve kinda moved from say 25% to closer to 40% as my preference and difference shocks i prefer with different sag. In the last 12 months i’ve generally now gone to 35% as being where i like things.

The thing is, different shocks feel completely different, the Fox DPX2 seems to have LOTS of initial travel and very soft initially, but then smooth after the initial drop. The Rockshox seem far more linear and progressive. I prefer ‘soft’ myself, but that doesn’t necessarily mean i’m correct 😀

I don’t think i’m particularly fussy on shocks though,

Plenty of evidence to the contrary on this thread😉

I guess you’ll find out from the shockwiz, but based on my previous experience of a similar sized DPX on a previous 130mm bike, I think you’re going to go up in pressure some more.

Bearing in mind as well that the frame rate on these Aether s is high at the start and reduces as it moves into the travel. If you’re undersprung to start with, this will make it sit even lower.

* For the avoidance of doubt for all SJWs reading, I am in no way offended that Weeksy has differing views and is likely to continue to do so going forwards.*

I don’t think i’m particularly fussy on shocks though, i’ll …… just get on with it.

Comedy gold 🙂

Well in my defence, a lot of this has been through necessity and circumstance rather than me disliking a particular shock.

We started all this because the G-160 broke 3 shocks (Well one of them was arguably faulty when i bought it, but it deffo ‘broke’ 2 of them), so went to the Bird Aether7. However i was running 210*52.5 which whilst it worked wasn’t the correct length shock for the frame. So i then went to a DPX2 which i later fitted into my lads Sworks, but he preferred the Deluxe, so i put it back in mine. In the process we went from incorrect length shocks so now having 2 bikes running 210*55s which are correct for both frames. He’s got a shock he likes, i’ve got a shock I like…. So all good… The rest is just me fiddling round with it to get the best settings for me and for the Shockwiz.

Rockshox seem far more linear and progressive.

That’s a new one on me…

If your magic app is telling you you need more air on a ride that is represented by your photos you must be way under pressured for any kind of decent riding.
Does linear AND progressive make the trails come alive as much as 27.5?

Lol let’s pick on the terms then if it make y’all feel superior 🙂
For me the Rockshox feels the same all the way through the stroke, from sag to full travel. To me it feels quite stiff at the initial part of travel.
The DPX2 starts off squidgy and soft but actually uses less of its travel overall.

I’m no expert in terminology, but I know how I prefer things to feel

Each increment on the Shockwiz is about 10-15 psi. So I’m pretty sure tomorrow the pressure will be within its green range now.

Straight to the heart of the matter Stu!
😆

Edit: ignore me..

The Rockshox seem far more linear and progressive.

i can cope with you having a genie in a bottle that tells you how much pressure to put an an air shock (would love to play with one) but ^ has me really puzzled. are you talking about more than one RS shock and comparing to the fox?

I’ve always preferred the direct approach. 😉

but ^ has me really puzzled. are you talking about more than one RS shock and comparing to the fox?

I’ve got and tried multiple Rockshox shocks in this frame, first is a 210*55 deluxe r, the other is a 210*52.5 deluxe RT , they feel quite similar, bordering on ‘firm’ when you’re sitting/riding.

So I’m pretty sure tomorrow the pressure will be within its green range now.

For that flat non technical ride?

Maybe, but as soon as you push it into steeper, faster more lumpy stuff you’ll be undersprung again.

Shockwiz only gives you data for the ride you do.

FWIW I think the Aether has a pretty narrow margin of tolerance for setting a shock outside Birds design expectations. BB is so low to start with.

Shockwiz only gives you data for the ride you do did.

This is the main reason i don’t really see the point in them.*
A magic app to tell me my bike was almost perfect on the last ride seem kind of pointless unless you only ever ride the same trail.
Still it seems to appeal to some.

*That and almost all of my bikes being coil front and rear.

If you like 35% sag on a shortish travel frame then I’m pretty sure that’s why the shockwiz is telling you to add air, add a low BB anyway and it’s going to be pedal strikes ahoy.

Of course it’s only for certain terrain, a jumpy day is never going to be perfect settings for an XC day, i’m not completely sodding stupid.

However, you want a ‘baseline’ don’t you ?

Your “baseline” will be way off the mark for any proper riding if its set up for the trails pictured.
35% sag?
Its not a DH bike you know. 😉

i give up…

enjoy

Depends.

Shockwiz is iterative. In theory you could have optimal settings for each individual section of trail on a ride. Thats plainly unfeasible until real time on-board microprocessor controlled damping and spring adjustment synced to your position with GPS is a thing.

Is a flat non technical ride a baseline for you? Is that your normal riding? If it isn’t, I’d argue its not even a ‘baseline’, or indeed, useful.

i give up…

I think you gave up trying to understand how to set a bike up when you started bolting your magic app to it.

to get the best settings for me and for the Shockwiz.

You set it up to please an app?

Don’t go, I’m developing a weird fascination with your ‘received wisdoms’ thinking – I want to see when the light bulb comes on.

You might find it useful.

When I borrowed a shockwiz, I found a little loop (in swinley, a pair of the resevoir trails into red25) that included slow tech, quick chunder, jumps and an uphill. A loop of it took me about 5mins, then I walked up the climb checking out the app, made the top recommended change only, and repeated the loop.

Including riding into the forest, I was done, fork and shock, in about 1.5 hours.

I wouldn’t bung it on for a whole ride.

I’m very much in the “find the perfect setting then leave it alone” camp, rather than “set up for the conditions” though.

If you like 35% sag on a shortish travel frame then I’m pretty sure that’s why the shockwiz is telling you to add air, add a low BB anyway and it’s going to be pedal strikes ahoy.

I think the Aether is designed around 30% sag and the shock curve is regressive up to that point and progressive beyond, so worth having running around there.